U. S. Politics: A noun, a verb and no collusion.

[Jace, Extat]

So rich people and the corporations (who are legally people) they represent can sue anyone they want into oblivion, but Micheal Cohen gets a break because he's a criminal attached to a rich person?

Fucking America.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

42 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

I don't think that is really a reasonable comparison.  You're welcome to say that knowing about the Kardashians is irrelevant, but you can easily argue that knowing about William Henry Harrison or James Garfield is not just irrelevant (neither accomplished anything of note as President), but irrelevant and outdated.  Of course most people are going to know more about entertainers from today than presidential trivia.  Whyever wouldn't they?

I'm the first to argue that people need to know their history to be informed productive citizens, but this is a bad test to determine that. 

Oh I understand that it’s an arbitrary test that makes an irrelevant comparison. I just wanted highlight that everyday people really don’t know that much about politics, our country’s history and the important affairs of our times. But they will know that Beyonce crushed Coachella. And I find that depressing.

Also, as a random aside, I used to be able to break down each president like Mel Kiper at the draft. You can have a lot of fun with it:

 

Lincoln is a once in a generation talent, he’s got all the tools, size, oratory skills, well read. He does suffer from depression which could him back in dark times, but I feel fully confident that the American people will pick him first overall in the 19^th century presidential draft.

 

Buchanan has bust written all over him. While his pre-presidential resume is impressive, I don’t believe it will transfer to the next level. He has poor vision, lacks of leadership skills and likely won’t be able to rally people around him in turbulent times. I believe that the American people should pass on Philip Buchanan.

 

There are some other interesting prospects in the draft that have a lot of upside, but also a glaring red flag. Scouts fear Grant will struggle due to off the field issues despite past achievements. Jefferson has all the tools, but he has way too many children from several baby mommas Family drama could hold him back. Jackson is fiery leader, but has been rumored to be a locker room cancer. The American people will have to think long and hard about these prospects’ draft status.

[DMC]

2 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

If I then asked the people who said he’s a real person “What’s he famous for?”, more people would say the Civil War than he was a president.

Yep.

2 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

The amount of people who’d know both is probably smaller than you’d think.

Yeah, probably.

2 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Did you ever see Jaw Walking from the Tonight Show?

There's no reason to bring the ugliness of Jay Leno into this.

[Jace, Extat]

Jace has a theory.

Un will talk to the Southern Prime Minister but the Northies will either never meet with the Donald or maneuver so that the South has to choose between war with American support or peace with normalized Northern relations that leaves Trump left in the cold.

 

ETA: I also don't buy for an instant that they're ready to denuclearize in the Allied interpretation.

[DMC]

1 hour ago, Kalbear said:

Maybe the reason that you're getting so much pushback on this is that the idea that the economy was the primary factor is largely refuted by the examples you yourself are providing?

Tastes like sour grapes to me.  I'm saying it was a factor, not that it's the primary factor.  You're the one who's so sure of yourself.  It's not refuted by any link I'm providing, nor you, and is in fact supported.  But, please, keep on responding with pathetically righteous anger.  It makes me look better.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

8 minutes ago, Pony Empress Jace said:

Jace has a theory.

Un will talk to the Southern Prime Minister but the Northies will either never meet with the Donald or maneuver so that the South has to choose between war with American support or peace with normalized Northern relations that leaves Trump left in the cold.

 

ETA: I also don't buy for an instant that they're ready to denuclearize in the Allied interpretation.

Nah, he wants that photo op with Trump. I doubt much will come of this meeting though, and any gains made will be piecemeal at best, though that won't stop Trump from claiming a total and complete victory.

 

[lokisnow]

Iirc, don’t most smart historians today know that the reputation of grants presidency is built on lies, exaggerations and an extremely thorough decades long concerted campaign by southern (confederates) historians to discredit him in every way possible.

basically it boils down to until Chester a Arthur, patronage was how DC operated, and no president was really any different from any other in this respect. But this was then used selectively by racists and white supremacists like Woodrow Wilson to completely eradicate Grants reputation. Prior to the white supremacists like Wilson gaining stranglehold control of US history, Grant was considered the second best president, behind only Washington. 

And it was very important to discredit Grant, his legacy was overwhelmingly pro black, and he is the one that opened government jobs to blacks (which Wilson ended), he was the one who very much kept reconciliation going after Johnson’s bumbling, kept the KKK down (a group Wilson helped resurrect), fought relentlessly for equal rights and equal protection. He was by far the best president minorities had until Lyndon Johnson. 

And Jesus, the southerners hated him beyond belief. Those same southerners worshipped racist rapist slave lords like Lee and as they managed to pull Grant down from his perch they elevated the great traitor to take his place in American historical esteem. 

[Jace, Extat]

10 minutes ago, lokisnow said:

Iirc, don’t most smart historians today know that the reputation of grants presidency is built on lies, exaggerations and an extremely thorough decades long concerted campaign by southern (confederates) historians to discredit him in every way possible.

basically it boils down to until Chester a Arthur, patronage was how DC operated, and no president was really any different from any other in this respect. But this was then used selectively by racists and white supremacists like Woodrow Wilson to completely eradicate Grants reputation. Prior to the white supremacists like Wilson gaining stranglehold control of US history, Grant was considered the second best president, behind only Washington. 

And it was very important to discredit Grant, his legacy was overwhelmingly pro black, and he is the one that opened government jobs to blacks (which Wilson ended), he was the one who very much kept reconciliation going after Johnson’s bumbling, kept the KKK down (a group Wilson helped resurrect), fought relentlessly for equal rights and equal protection. He was by far the best president minorities had until Lyndon Johnson. 

And Jesus, the southerners hated him beyond belief. Those same southerners worshipped racist rapist slave lords like Lee and as they managed to pull Grant down from his perch they elevated the great traitor to take his place in American historical esteem. 

I've long said that Sherman is the President the South deserved, they should have been grateful for Grant.

And I'll never forgo a chance to take a shit on Wilson. Not only a racist, a war profiteer who did more to cause WWII than anyone not named Adolf Hitler.

[Jace, Extat]

Chris Hayes (an anchor from MSNBC I think, seems super liberal) gave a real fantastic interview on Seth Meyers last night about the realities of living in Trump world.

I highly recommend it, I don't watch that channel but this guy is a very effective communicator and Meyers is an underrated interviewer.

 

[Shryke]

48 minutes ago, Pony Empress Jace said:

So rich people and the corporations (who are legally people) they represent can sue anyone they want into oblivion, but Micheal Cohen gets a break because he's a criminal attached to a rich person?

Fucking America.

No? He gets a pretty normal stay on his civil case for only 90 days because there is a conflict whereby taking the 5th for the criminal investigation he is currently under would conflict with his defence in the civil case he is also currently involved in. The judge basically told him "Put up or shut up" on whether he was actually gonna take the 5th and once he did (at the exact moment of the deadline the judge gave him) the judge fairly reasonably gave him 90 days to sort his shit out and figure out another defence for his civil case.

Ideally what Cohen wants is a delay of the civil case until the criminal case is done, so he can't compromise his criminal case by information revealed in his civil case. But Stormy Daniels has a right to not have her lawsuit delayed forever too so the judge is giving him only 90 days.

[LongRider]

2 hours ago, dmc515 said:

4 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

If I then asked the people who said he’s a real person “What’s he famous for?”, more people would say the Civil War than he was a president.

Yep.

Nope.

Assassinated.

[LongRider]

2 hours ago, Pony Empress Jace said:

ETA: I also don't buy for an instant that they're ready to denuclearize in the Allied interpretation.

The only mark buying this con is the Donald hisself.

 

[Jace, Extat]

17 minutes ago, Shryke said:

No? He gets a pretty normal stay on his civil case for only 90 days because there is a conflict whereby taking the 5th for the criminal investigation he is currently under would conflict with his defence in the civil case he is also currently involved in. The judge basically told him "Put up or shut up" on whether he was actually gonna take the 5th and once he did (at the exact moment of the deadline the judge gave him) the judge fairly reasonably gave him 90 days to sort his shit out and figure out another defence for his civil case.

Ideally what Cohen wants is a delay of the civil case until the criminal case is done, so he can't compromise his criminal case by information revealed in his civil case. But Stormy Daniels has a right to not have her lawsuit delayed forever too so the judge is giving him only 90 days.

If he doesn't want to be in a position of lying in a Civil case thereby jeopardizing himself in a criminal case maybe he should not be a goddamn criminal.

[LongRider]

9 minutes ago, Pony Empress Jace said:

If he doesn't want to be in a position of lying in a Civil case thereby jeopardizing himself in a criminal case maybe he should not be a goddamn criminal.

Too late for that.

[Martell Spy]

49 minutes ago, LongRider said:

The only mark buying this con is the Donald hisself.

 

Yeah, NK said we could keep troops in there, not ships, subs, and nukes.

[DMC]

2 hours ago, lokisnow said:

basically it boils down to until Chester a Arthur, patronage was how DC operated, and no president was really any different from any other in this respect. But this was then used selectively by racists and white supremacists like Woodrow Wilson to completely eradicate Grants reputation. Prior to the white supremacists like Wilson gaining stranglehold control of US history, Grant was considered the second best president, behind only Washington. 

Ah, nothing like a good lokisnow intangible rant to put things in perspective.  No, what is generally taught, and thus what I teach, is the 1876 election.  Tilden probably won, but Hayes provided assurance that Reconstruction would end in exchange for the presidency.  Dunno how we got to this point, but that's how that goes, or at least how it's portrayed in general education.

[Fragile Bird]

I think you guys are all going to have to take breathing exercises so that you don't choke to death when Trump gets his Nobel Peace Prize. Along with the two Koreans, of course. I said that months ago in one of these threads, and the closer we get the more it looks like something is genuinely happening. Could all blow up, of course. Possibly every way imaginable.

But Trump, if that happens, will need constant stroking, constant praise, constant reinforcement of how great he is. And he will brag that his Nobel is so much better and real than Obama's Nobel.

Buying shares in drug companies that make heartburn medication might be a good idea.  

[The Anti-Targ]

Seems to me that if Trump can get a peace treaty between North and South Korea and denuclearise North Korea, then he can screw a different porn star every week and have the sex tape posted on facebook and he'll still punch his ticket to a second term in office.

[TheKitttenGuard]

41 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

I think you guys are all going to have to take breathing exercises so that you don't choke to death when Trump gets his Nobel Peace Prize. Along with the two Koreans, of course. I said that months ago in one of these threads, and the closer we get the more it looks like something is genuinely happening. Could all blow up, of course. Possibly every way imaginable.

But Trump, if that happens, will need constant stroking, constant praise, constant reinforcement of how great he is. And he will brag that his Nobel is so much better and real than Obama's Nobel.

Buying shares in drug companies that make heartburn medication might be a good idea.  

I honestly do not care and genuine peace will great. I would personally give him the award myself. 

Those that view war as sickness and disease should see in Korea as what can happen when the fever is finally allow to break.

Will this logic follow with Iran or allow to return to Cuba is something to be seen.

If Trump goes over for photo-ops and sign treaties finalize between the Koreas will be for the best.

[Fragile Bird]

29 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Seems to me that if Trump can get a peace treaty between North and South Korea and denuclearise North Korea, then he can screw a different porn star every week and have the sex tape posted on facebook and he'll still punch his ticket to a second term in office.

I think so too, for the most part. I try to imagine voters saying, that's great, he solved that, now let's get rid of him because we don't want him to start a war somewhere else. But that thought gets overridden by the thought of voters saying, hey, he fixed Korea, he deserves another term.