U. S. Politics: A noun, a verb and no collusion.

[Yukle]

1 hour ago, Triskele said:

@Yukle Per your comment upthread while there's no doubt that many voters on the right were crying out for the filth that Trump delivered to them.  Not questioning this point in the least.  But I don't think there's any way to totally discount that the culture wars do indeed make a lot of people on the right feel assaulted.  Not arguing that you or anyone needs to be concerned with their feelings for their feeling's sake.  Just that I think it's naive to say that the left's cultural advances that do include a healthy dose of condescension (which I've participated in) has also been a factor.  

Oh, I see. In that case, yes, agreed.

[Bonnot OG]

2 hours ago, Triskele said:

As much as a part me wants to go this way and sure as fuck doesn't want Trump normalized I'm not sure to what extent it's wise to say he should never get credit for anything.  That stance does make us sound like we're being unfair, and not all voters are going to be sophisticated enough to understand that bigger picture argument you're making. 

Given that Trump is a racist, authoritarian and an utter embarrassment to the US and to the human race, I am sure inclined to oppose him even if he accomplishes some things.  But I wonder if it wouldn't be better to say things like "It's great that the Koreans are talking, but Donald Trump is still failing the American people with his corruption, etc..."

I don't know.  I guess I can't make that strong of an argument against total and absolute resistance.  It will help some voters stay in Trump's camp, but maybe not that many. 

I really dont give a flying fuck about being fair to a rich privelleged sexual predatory bigot. Nor am I worried about the feelings of his half a step away from being in klan garb and sieg heiling base.

[polishgenius]

7 minutes ago, Sword of Doom said:

I really dont give a flying fuck about being fair to a rich privelleged sexual predatory bigot.

It isn't Trump Trisk is worried about though.

 

 

7 minutes ago, Sword of Doom said:

Nor am I worried about the feelings of his half a step away from being in klan garb and sieg heiling base.

It isn't his base either.


It's the guys who voted for him and are playing the Republican bullshit team game and falling for the propaganda but might be open to being drawn away.



I don't think Trump deserves a lot of credit for anything that happens with NK and any that he gets is immediately undermined by his fucking up the Iran deal and also rolling back progress on Cuba but clearly he's got something to do with it and pretending that he doesn't just makes his propaganda more effective coz that would be fake news. It's dropping to his own level, and that's never a game you're gonna win.

[Zorral]

Even from the other side of the ocean this news arrives:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/30/us/politics/robert-mueller-questions-trump.html

 

[Shryke]

Mueller's questions for Trump are out:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/30/us/politics/questions-mueller-wants-to-ask-trump-russia.html

The basics are "Mueller knows ALOT of things here". You don't ask questions you don't already know or suspect the answers too.

There's even a few that suggest collusion with the Russians is absolutely on the table in some way.

[Larry of the Lawn]

What are the chances one of Trump's lawyers has an actual heart attack or stroke while Trump's being questioned?  Is he capable of not incriminating  himself?  Is he capable of just saying "I can't recall" six hundred times?  

[Shryke]

For the North Korean situation it's silly to give really any credit to Trump here imo. The two main factors here seem to be the collapse at the NK nuclear test site and the huge scandal that imploded the previous South Korean administration. It's unknown how bad it exactly is for them but it definitely seems like there's been a major setback in the NK nuclear program and we don't know how many materials and people they lost but it seems likely they can't continue their nuclear tests right now anyway. And the new SK leader coming in is famously big on peace with NK. Both these are likely the largest contributors to the current situation.

Trump's largest influence here is probably helping convince the SK that the US is a less reliable ally then they'd believed and so maybe they'd better get a deal if they can. Which is, like, not a good thing. Especially from a US perspective.

[Holy Sith!]

 

https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/30/asia/south-korea-trump-nobel-prize-intl/index.html

I am appalled that South Korean President Moon Jae-in thinks Donald should receive the Nobel Peace Prize.

China has always been the power player in this situation. If Donald had a microgram of brains (about as likely as tiny, purple Jared Kushners flying out of my butt), he would cancel the meeting with Kim to avoid the risk of screwing things up.
It would be sweet to see Kim cancel the meeting. Things seem to be progressing nicely with the South Koreans, and Kim may realize that there is nothing prestigious about meeting with a mere Pretender to the Presidency.
Donald can continue to praise himself (falsely, as always) that he was the force behind China putting pressure on North Korea. The rest of the world, including the Nobel Peace Prize Committee, knows better.

[LongRider]

15 minutes ago, Holy Sith! said:

The rest of the world, including the Nobel Peace Prize Committee, knows better.

May the Prize Committee be full of Never Trump-ers.

[OldGimletEye]

1 hour ago, Holy Sith! said:

 

https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/30/asia/south-korea-trump-nobel-prize-intl/index.html

I am appalled that South Korean President Moon Jae-in thinks Donald should receive the Nobel Peace Prize.

China has always been the power player in this situation. If Donald had a microgram of brains (about as likely as tiny, purple Jared Kushners flying out of my butt), he would cancel the meeting with Kim to avoid the risk of screwing things up.
It would be sweet to see Kim cancel the meeting. Things seem to be progressing nicely with the South Koreans, and Kim may realize that there is nothing prestigious about meeting with a mere Pretender to the Presidency.
Donald can continue to praise himself (falsely, as always) that he was the force behind China putting pressure on North Korea. The rest of the world, including the Nobel Peace Prize Committee, knows better.

Maybe this just me being an old athlete, but one thing I learned early is never start celebrating a victory until the ref blows the final whistle. Or you just may end up getting your ass kicked and end up looking like a real buffoon.

Per the article posted by @Martell Spy it maybe quite possible that Trump is going to get played. From my knowledge of these events, this thing is hardly a done deal, so I'm not quite sure why some people are uncorking the champagne bottles and declaring victory at this juncture.

[Holy Sith!]

59 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

Maybe this just me being an old athlete, but one thing I learned early is never start celebrating a victory until the ref blows the final whistle. Or you just may end up getting your ass kicked and end up looking like a real buffoon.

Per the article posted by @Martell Spy it maybe quite possible that Trump is going to get played. From my knowledge of these events, this thing is hardly a done deal, so I'm not quite sure why some people are uncorking the champagne bottles and declaring victory at this juncture.

As  well-established and certified real buffoon, Donald doesn't need to fear looking like one. The premature celebration smacks of desperation for recognition than anything else.

[Ice Queen]

4 hours ago, Shryke said:

Mueller's questions for Trump are out:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/30/us/politics/questions-mueller-wants-to-ask-trump-russia.html

The basics are "Mueller knows ALOT of things here". You don't ask questions you don't already know or suspect the answers too.

There's even a few that suggest collusion with the Russians is absolutely on the table in some way.

Collusion doesn't appear once. That has no legal teeth.

Mueller is after conspiracy against the United States.

Edit: Mueller's team doesn't leak, so I wonder where this came from. 

[LongRider]

25 minutes ago, Crazy Cat Lady in Training said:

 

Edit: Mueller's team doesn't leak, so I wonder where this came from. 

Trump had it leaked. Had to be from him. Now he can wail and gnash his teeth about the unfairness of it all. 

[Maithanet]

4 minutes ago, LongRider said:

Trump had it leaked. Had to be from him. Now he can wail and gnash his teeth about the unfairness of it all. 

That's one possibility.  The other is just that this white house lacks discipline, and enough people got their hands on this document that someone was willing to send it to NYT.  Which in isolation may seem like not that big a deal, but it actually is. 

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, Crazy Cat Lady in Training said:

Collusion doesn't appear once. That has no legal teeth.

Mueller is after conspiracy against the United States.

Edit: Mueller's team doesn't leak, so I wonder where this came from. 

I believe these were the questions sent to Trump's legal team so I'm fairly confident it was his side doing the leaking.

[Shryke]

37 minutes ago, Crazy Cat Lady in Training said:

Collusion doesn't appear once. That has no legal teeth.

Mueller is after conspiracy against the United States.

Edit: Mueller's team doesn't leak, so I wonder where this came from. 

lolwhat? The NYT divides the questions into 4 sections and the last one is ENTIRELY about the question of collusion with the Russians..

Even to straight out asking "What knowledge did you have of any outreach by your campaign, including by Paul Manafort, to Russia about potential assistance to the campaign?". Which basically screams "we know your campaign did exactly this" and heavily implies "and we knew you know about it".

And it pretty obviously came from Trump's people. We know his people got the questions a few weeks back (and flipped out about them). They are by far the most likely source.

[Fragile Bird]

11 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

I believe these were the questions sent to Trump's legal team so I'm fairly confident it was his side doing the leaking.

The former prosecutors interviewed all evening by CNN last night say these are not Mueller’s questions. Rather, they are questions formulated by Trump’s lawyers from the discussions recently held between Mueller’s team and Trump’s legal team. The point they make is the questions are too open-ended to be from a prosecutor.

The meeting happened a month or so ago, didn’t it? And it was pointed out there was a time back then when the WH was seething in fury.

As for who leaked them, again, the speculation is Trump’s legal team, to get Trump’s mind on the issue. ‘Focusing Trump on an issue through a leak to the media’, using the media to grab Trump’s attention.

[Fragile Bird]

And before I forget the quote, from The Brief Wonderous Life of Oscar Wao, no matter how far a mule travels it can never come back as a horse. 

[Ice Queen]

12 minutes ago, Shryke said:

lolwhat? The NYT divides the questions into 4 sections and the last one is ENTIRELY about the question of collusion with the Russians..

But they don't say "collusion". Why would they? 

Even to straight out asking "What knowledge did you have of any outreach by your campaign, including by Paul Manafort, to Russia about potential assistance to the campaign?". Which basically screams "we know your campaign did exactly this" and heavily implies "and we knew you know about it".

Again, not collusion. Conspiracy. 

And it pretty obviously came from Trump's people. We know his people got the questions a few weeks back (and flipped out about them). They are by far the most likely source.

Which is why they got it wrong. Mueller would never allude to collusion. But he would use the term "coordination", aka conspiracy. 

[Ice Queen]

31 minutes ago, LongRider said:

Trump had it leaked. Had to be from him. Now he can wail and gnash his teeth about the unfairness of it all. 

I'm thinking Rudy, myself. Mueller is laughing his ass off.