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Matter-of-fact

different north/Frey

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what if Eddard Stark was executed or died before the north army arrive at the twins how different would the negotiations be with Walder Frey?would the starks still cross twins or use a longer way around maybe with cragnoman help?

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Look at the map.

The route from the North to KL does NOT pass through the Twins.

Robb crossed the Green Fork at the Twins as he was going to Riverrun. Which was besieged. Hence using Carannogmen to bypass the Twins was not an option - this would take too long.

Nothing changes about the negotiations - Lord Frey knew that Robb was going to be the next Lord of the North sooner than later.

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It really wouldn't change anything. Robb wasn't ever going to King's Landing anyways. Tywin's army blocked the direct route between Moat Cailin and King's Landing. He crossed the Twins to join with the Riverlords and defeat Jaime's army. Walder's demands probably aren't going to change because of Ned's death. He had no problem putting demands to Robb the heir, he certainly wouldn't to Lord Robb. 

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31 minutes ago, Matter-of-fact said:

what if Eddard Stark was executed or died before the north army arrive at the twins how different would the negotiations be with Walder Frey?would the starks still cross twins or use a longer way around maybe with cragnoman help?

The Twins are south of the Neck, they already passed crannogmen lands. And as TMIfairy said, Robb wanted to lift the siege at Riverrun to secure the help of the Riverlords, going around isn't really an option.

Although I think a better bargain could have been struck if Robb wasn't in such a hurry to free his father. A marriage could probably have been avoided and that changes the whole narative I guess.

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6 minutes ago, Deepbollywood Motte said:

The Twins are south of the Neck, they already passed crannogmen lands. And as TMIfairy said, Robb wanted to lift the siege at Riverrun to secure the help of the Riverlords, going around isn't really an option.

Although I think a better bargain could have been struck if Robb wasn't in such a hurry to free his father. A marriage could probably have been avoided and that changes the whole narative I guess.

His sense of rush wasn't because of Ned though. He already dismissed going directly to King's Landing due to the strategic situation. He was in a rush because Jaime was besieging Riverrun and if it fell, with it goes his only source of support and both Lannister armies would be bearing down upon him.

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13 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

His sense of rush wasn't because of Ned though. He already dismissed going directly to King's Landing due to the strategic situation. He was in a rush because Jaime was besieging Riverrun and if it fell, with it goes his only source of support and both Lannister armies would be bearing down upon him.

Maybe both, I don't have the exact quotes but I also got the idea that it was because of Ned. Although nobody could have expected that he would be excecuted so soon. 

Riverrun was a big win for Robb, and it was sound strategy but I still think he gave good Ol' Walder too much. With less urgency a better deal could have been made, in my opinion. 

Edited by Deepbollywood Motte

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6 hours ago, Deepbollywood Motte said:

Maybe both, I don't have the exact quotes but I also got the idea that it was because of Ned. Although nobody could have expected that he would be excecuted so soon. 

Riverrun was a big win for Robb, and it was sound strategy but I still think he gave good Ol' Walder too much. With less urgency a better deal could have been made, in my opinion. 

But the urgency was there.  His options were to appease Walder Frey, fight Tywin head on or retreat back to Moat Cailin. If he picks the latter two, Riverrun certainly falls along which would eliminate the only allies Robb had. As you said, no one expected Ned to be executed like that, but he really didn't factor into the strategic situation at that point.

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I don't really lay the blame for the consessions Robb had to make to cross the Twins at his door. Being a northern Riverland's house (to say nothing of the most direct way to the current Lord's good family) house Stark should have at least had a more familiar reputation with the Frey's.  If the Starks had cultivated a better relationship with the Freys I believe that crossing could have been a easier situation.  Of course I could be way off old Walder might have his "due" regardless.

Edited by TPTWP Timett

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