Avengers: Infinity War - SPOILERS THREAD

[Mosi Mynn]

20 minutes ago, Slurktan said:

If it is going to be a silly punch up then some idiot like iron man or cap puts on the glove then yes it will cheapen the movie.  However I'd argue that this movie sets up that will not happen, what will happen is Thanos has a redemption arc and will do it himself while presumably dying.  Predictable but in a much better way that doesn't cheapen the deaths.

I think that that might cheapen Thanos.  He spent years getting the Stones, his belief was absolute, and he sacrificed everything.  I could see him wanting to bring Gamora back, and somehow that also brings back the others.  But I don't want him to regret his life's ambition or be responsible for undoing it.  I want the Avengers to undo it and beat him.

[red snow]

18 minutes ago, RumHam said:

I've seen people suggest they're trapped in the soul stone. 

That makes a certain level of sense. It was the last stone and maybe Vision's attachment to it held some sway?

Wonder if red skull will be the one leading the dead out? He's had decades as a ghost trapped via entanglement with an infinity stone

[Slurktan]

1 hour ago, Mosi Mynn said:

I think that that might cheapen Thanos.  He spent years getting the Stones, his belief was absolute, and he sacrificed everything.  I could see him wanting to bring Gamora back, and somehow that also brings back the others.  But I don't want him to regret his life's ambition or be responsible for undoing it.  I want the Avengers to undo it and beat him.

Except that if they talk to him (Tony, whom he respects) and change his mind in a sense they did undo it and beat him.  Plus it would be nice to not have a punch off for once.

[DMC]

1 hour ago, Fez said:

but I thought in them that Thanos wanted to end half the universe as a way to impress the literal personification of Death?

Yup.

1 hour ago, Fez said:

If so, that's goofy in it's own way,

Yup.

1 hour ago, Fez said:

but seems like a better motivation than this "finite resources" thing that feels really half-baked.

I dunno, I think they're both pretty stupid, but I'd rather have some Malthusian explanation than because he was hung up on a woman.

[RumHam]

1 hour ago, red snow said:

That makes a certain level of sense. It was the last stone and maybe Vision's attachment to it held some sway?

Wonder if red skull will be the one leading the dead out? He's had decades as a ghost trapped via entanglement with an infinity stone

I think the soul stone was second to last. (going to see it tonight) It's the one guarded by Red Skull. Mind Stone was the last as I understand it, the one in visions head. The reason people think they might be trapped in the soul stone specifically is because apparently in the comics it consumes people's souls. 

[Turinqui-Calima]

I saw the movie last night and really liked it for what it was. It was really impressive how they balanced so many different characters without making the movie feel too disjointed. It definitely felt like a stepping stone movie though, with a lot of things happening because they needed to have happened in the next movie.

Not that I am complaining, the movie was a lot of fun with so many really entertaining scenes and some really cool fights. I loved the cool arrivals, like Cap showing up in Edinburgh or Thor showing up in Wakanda. The 'she is not alone' scene with Wanda, BW, and Okoye was really neat. I saw the movie in Harlem and just the cut to Wakanda made the entire theater cheer, so that was nice and reminded me how much I love BP. Just so much fan service throughout the entire thing. Loved Thor/Rocket, loved Stark/Spidey/Strange and of course Gamora/Thanos was very well done.

As for the 'deaths' I feel like the only ones that are really permanent are Loki and Heimdall. My guess is that Gamora will play a role in undoing the finger snap by being a part of the Soul Stone somehow (as someone mentioned earlier in the thread). Vision will probably come back through Shuri, who I am thinking did not turn to dust. I can't imagine them spending so much time on Shuri trying to save Vision if it doesn't lead to something.

Anyone have any thoughts on Thanos 'knowing' Stark? Is it just through the events of the previous Avengers movies, through the Soul Stone, both? I was really curious about it and thought it was a really interesting scene. 

On 4/26/2018 at 3:23 AM, denstorebog said:

Even if we're supposed to be able to relate to a character who goes from "people are going hungry" to "exactly half of everything must die", the logic isn't there. If half of everyone on Earth died, it wouldn't make the other half better off, it would absolutely cripple means of production and ensure widespread suffering among everyone else. On top of that, the universe does not have finite resources as far as anyone knows, and even so, it doesn't have one population that shares everything. Some planetary populations might be a lot better off than others, but decimating half of them won't help the rest in any way.

Ah, but he is the mad Titan, so it's okay for his plan to be a bit unhinged. Except he seems pretty sane in his dealings with others and his ability to work towards a specific goal. Even if we're to believe that madness led him to concieve a plan with absolutely no logical foundation, we don't see that madness on display, and we aren't told where it came from / what caused it. I would have bought his plan if it has clearly been the machinations of an unhinged mind, but it wasn't.

Agree completely here. Thanos' plan to kill half the population just doesn't make any sense. If he has the gauntlet, he controls essentially everything. Why not just, you know, double the resources rather than getting rid of half the 'people'? I do hear a lot of people calling Thanos 'mad', but as someone who has only watched the MCU movies and not read any comics, I've never felt like Thanos is mad, just evil. It did make it tricky for me to wrap my head around his character.

On 4/26/2018 at 10:57 AM, Jeor said:

I actually got a bit annoyed with the continual missed opportunities for Thanos to be stopped. Though each had their reasons, 

I got annoyed with Scarlet Witch too. I know the battle looks bad and you're not doing anything right now, but staying with Vision and Shuri is not exactly an unimportant task...

5 hours ago, Bastard of Boston said:

Of the Black Order, Ebony Maw was, by far, the standout. I didn't really care that we lost all the others. Really hoping he finds a way to survive.

One last gripe for me is that I really wish we had been introduced to the Black Order earlier in the franchise, even if it was just as a rumor or Gamora/Nebula discussing them. I really liked them as villains and their deaths were awesome ways of having victories for our heroes despite the overall defeat, but I think it would have had more of an impact if they were set up already. Wouldn't be surprised if Ebony Maw survives.

Finally, 'Thanos will return' as the final text made me laugh. Excellent detail. 

[RumHam]

16 minutes ago, Turinqui-Calima said:

One last gripe for me is that I really wish we had been introduced to the Black Order earlier in the franchise, even if it was just as a rumor or Gamora/Nebula discussing them. I really liked them as villains and their deaths were awesome ways of having victories for our heroes despite the overall defeat, but I think it would have had more of an impact if they were set up already. Wouldn't be surprised if Ebony Maw survives.

Yeah. In retrospect they should have had one of them be the person talking to Loki at the start of The Avengers. They coulda also had one or more of them appear in Guardians and just had Ronan knock them over or something instead of how he snapped that anonymous henchman's neck. 

Question, does Banner remember his time as Hulk? In Ragnorok he seemed to have no memory of anything since he fell down the well in Age of Ultron. But in this movie he clearly remembers Thanos even though he only encountered him as the Hulk. 

[red snow]

1 hour ago, RumHam said:

I think the soul stone was second to last. (going to see it tonight) It's the one guarded by Red Skull. Mind Stone was the last as I understand it, the one in visions head. The reason people think they might be trapped in the soul stone specifically is because apparently in the comics it consumes people's souls. 

you're right. Red Skull as the guide out of the soul stone actually makes more sense that way around. I think i thought Vision had the soul stone merely because that's what makes him alive but he does have the mind stone.

[Werthead]

20 hours ago, red snow said:

Does anyone know if it was filming schedule clashes that prevented Ant-Man and Hawkeye from appearing? It just seems bizarre not to include them when everyone else was (besides Agent Coulson of course) present in this culmination of events. My inner Comic geek says they weren't present because otherwise we all know the film would have been won with Haweye firing Antman into Thanos tear duct or nostril and killing him (aim for the head) but it must have been die to Renner filming mission impossible and Paul Rudd doing Mute (surely not???). Because not turning up to prevent the destruction of half of all life because of "family commitments" seems a bit silly when half of said family may die. I guess the more likely reason is that they have a role in Infinity 2 (which I guess they'll fess up to as the title in a couple of weeks' time unless they go Infinity:requiem or something pretentious like that) which when we have the blu-rays and 5 hours to spare will work as one big movie. Although the ending of this one would have less impact if we only had to wait to plug in another disc to see the resolution. Having a year to live with the Avengers having lost does put the split of films into good use.

Yup, they filmed scenes for the movies but these all got shuffled back to Infinity War II. Ant-Man, Hawkeye, Happy Hogan and Captain Marvel should have all appeared here.

Apparently there were rewrites and reshoots last year that were surprisingly major, including shifting Captain Marvel out of this movie into Part 2 after the studio got the script for the solo movie. That required some pretty big reshoots and changes, the junking of material Larson filmed specifically for this movie. I suspect it's to do with Captain Marvel's power level, which should have allowed her to have stopped Thanos reasonably easily (especially given that Thor came within a second of killing him and even Iron Man was able to draw blood).

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• But how on Earth will Ant-Man II and its goofy tone fit in with the ending of IW Part I?

Ant-Man and the Wasp takes place before Infinity War, or perhaps simultaneously with it (I suspect a post-credits tie in to confirm that the timelines have synched, and we may get setup for one or both characters to get involved in Infinity War II.

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I actually think it might have been Hugo Weaving. Certainly sounded like him, and it wouldn't have been much of a hassle to record those lines.

Nope, it was Ross Marquand, aka Aaron from The Walking Dead, one of several recognisable TV actors in unrecognisable makeup. Fargo and The Leftovers' Carrie Coon was Proxima Midnight, Thanos' female henchman who got run over by the giant lawnmower (and got splattered over Black Widow).

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EDITED: On another note, did anyone catch Valkyrie's body in the opening scene? I was hoping to see her in this film, even if it was just an on-screen acknowledgement she was dead. 

Apparently Thanos killed half of the Asgardians and let the rest go (presumably in an escape pod). My assumption is that if they want to bring Valkyrie back, they'll say she was injured and went with the survivors, and if not she died on the ship. The actress is really busy, which probably played into this decision.

The other issue is that Hemsworth was unsure about continuing as Thor, but the experience of making Ragnarok may have changed his mind, so there may be a Thor 4, which seems the most likely time to bring Valkyrie back.

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Or Surfer?

Surfer is still owned by Fox and the Disney/Fox deal isn't done yet, so he's unavailable.

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They coulda also had one or more of them appear in Guardians and just had Ronan knock them over or something instead of how he snapped that anonymous henchman's neck. 

That was the Other, who was supposed to fulfil this role IIRC. He was played by Alexis Denisof (Buffy and Angel's Wesley) and was in both The Avengers and Guardians of the Galaxy. However, they decided to change things up by having Ronan kill him, which was a bit of a waste.

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Question, does Banner remember his time as Hulk? In Ragnorok he seemed to have no memory of anything since he fell down the well in Age of Ultron. But in this movie he clearly remembers Thanos even though he only encountered him as the Hulk. 

They've been inconsistent on the Banner/Hulk relationship for quite a while now. I think the general idea is that Banner remembers some stuff from his time as Hulk but it varies on the situation and if he spends ages as Hulk, he can't remember much of anything.

[Werthead]

My main problem with the film is that we can see how Infinity War II goes down:

• At least everything from the moment Thanos rewinds time is undoable. This was Dr. Strange's plan ("it was the only way"). So everyone who got dusted will survive. That's without knowing that Spider-Man 2 is filming, Guardians of the Galaxy 3 is in prep and Black Panther 2 has been amberlit and they're just locking down the deals.
• Quite a few of the heroes survived: Iron Man, Nebula, Captain America, Black Widow, Thor (especially), War Machine and Hulk are all still in play, presumably Hawkeye and Ant-Man as well (who filmed scenes but didn't show up, so presumably they're in the next one). So that'll be our team for the next movie. They find Thanos, take him down, get the Infinity Gauntlet and reverse time back to the moment he clicked his fingers. Vision, Heimdall and Loki stay dead.
• Gamora's soul, at least, is likely in the Soul Stone. That might literally be her (not just a vision of Thanos) at the end. She might stay there or she might be resurrected somehow.
• The big new player will be Captain Marvel. We're getting her origin story in the movie immediately preceding Infinity War II and Nick Fury sends her an SOS at the end of Infinity War I, so she'll show up from wherever she is (presumably in space). This is potentially a problem: Captain Marvel's power level is beyond anyone else we've seen in the MCU and she should be able to take out Thanos relatively easily, if Thor and Iron Man could wound him. Captain Marvel showing up in Infinity War II is one thing, but her showing up and helping resolve the entire storyline is, from the perspective of casual viewers who right now don't even know she exists, will be a massive deus ex machina.

Other thoughts:

• Heimdall is dead and gone, as Idris Elba has certainly felt free to say he wasn't keen on making the Marvel movies, so that'll stick and presumably Loki will as well (although they have some more wriggle room there). I suspect that Marvel know they can't keep having Loki as a will-he, won't-he good guy/bad guy tension thing as it's been done to death, so losing Hiddleson is necessary. Although only as necessary as the future of Thor in the MCU, which is a bit up in the air (although Hemsworth has been making many more positive noises recently and Marvel might want at least one of the original four big-hitters to stick around in Phase 4, assuming one or both of Iron Man and Captain Marvel die and the other retires).
• I don't see how Agents of SHIELD or the Netflix shows get away with not mentioning the events of this film, so I suspect we'll get confirmation that the MCU and the TV universe are now officially separate entities.

[Mosi Mynn]

RE Captain Marvel taking out Thanos: I don’t know that much about her, but everything I've read suggests she's uber-poweful.  It would be too easy to have her swoop in and take out Thanos - especially when I'd guess the audience wants to see one of our long-term heroes who Thanos has hurt to do that. Plus, it's an Avengers movie,  so it will probably be a team effort.

I can see her taking out one of our heroes if she has to.

[RumHam]

28 minutes ago, Werthead said:

• I don't see how Agents of SHIELD or the Netflix shows get away with not mentioning the events of this film, so I suspect we'll get confirmation that the MCU and the TV universe are now officially separate entities.

I think the Netflix shows (plus The Runaways which really didn't even try to pretend it was in the MCU) can just ignore it. Assuming time gets reset and most people have no memory of their friends turning to dust around them. SHIELD is more problematic, especially since they're dealing with their own alien invasion plotline. 

[Trebla]

I just saw it and was blown away. The Russo Brothers, IMO, have made the best 3 Marvel movies. I agree with others that this film could have been a mess and in lesser hands it would have been. The great action scenes were a given, it of course brought the funny ( I. Am. Steve. Roger.) but I wasn't prepared for the gut-punches this film gave out. The deaths on Titan really got me, especially Peter Parker's. 

A few things...

- Thanos' motivation didn't bother me, especially since it was an improvement over the comics where he was "wooing" the physical embodiment of Death. Here you can argue that he is a well-intentioned extremist. Maybe. But he's not doing it for the Evulz! and his love for Gamora made him tragic. I suspect that that love will play a big part in the sequel.

- I liked his henchlings. They were powerful and smart, as the servants of of the most powerful being in the universe should be. I appreciated that we weren't bogged down with providing them with backstories, though I did keep wondering who the actors were. I was surprised to see that the female one was Carrie Coon. That was cool.

- I think my one nitpick was I was unclear on how the Gauntlet worked or how Thanos used it. It seemed to me that he was unable to use more than one gem at a time. Also, during the Battle of Titan, Dr. Strange commands the Cloak of Levitation to keep Thanos from closing his fist. Does he need to close the gauntlet's fist to access it's full power? I'm seeing it again Sunday so I'll have to pay closer attention.

 

[DaveSumm]

1 hour ago, Werthead said:

This is potentially a problem: Captain Marvel's power level is beyond anyone else we've seen in the MCU and she should be able to take out Thanos relatively easily.

Her power level in the comics is beyond anything we’ve seen, the MCU can make her as powerful as they damn please. Just dial her down a bit.

[polishgenius]

I'm not really worried about Captain Marvel- there's no rule that says she has to be exactly as powerful as she's shown in the comics. Like everyone else, they'll scale her for what they've got. They're not dumb, they're not going to have her casually swoop in and kick Steppenwolf's ass with no effort whatsoever taking any tension extant in the scenario out of it. She'll have the same powers she does, just... not as extreme.

I'm more concerned with unmaking the unmaking without it being lame. That's always tough when a series has these big consequences but knows it has to undo them. Here they'll mitigate by taking out other people in their stead, but we'll see how they handle it.


As for the film itself... well done. Handled the multitude of plots and characters and action scenes with aplomb. The Russos know what they're doing.

[Mosi Mynn]

6 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

Her power level in the comics is beyond anything we’ve seen, the MCU can make her as powerful as they damn please. Just dial her down a bit.

Like they've done with Wanda.

[DaveSumm]

21 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

I'm more concerned with unmaking the unmaking without it being lame. That's always tough when a series has these big consequences but knows it has to undo them. Here they'll mitigate by taking out other people in their stead, but we'll see how they handle it.

I did wonder whether you can simply ... unclick these people? If it has the power to do it, can it undo it? But not by rewinding time I mean, just having them reappear. But then that’s lame for a slightly different reason, that they weren’t ever really dead. Just ‘clicked’.

Also, if this can be undone with the gauntlet, you’d think Thanos would swiftly embark on Phase II: destroy or hide the Infinity Stones.

[Werthead]

 

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Her power level in the comics is beyond anything we’ve seen, the MCU can make her as powerful as they damn please. Just dial her down a bit.

 

I think Feige has said they're not going to dial her down because that means not being true to the character, so they're going full-Marvel on this one, which should make Phase 4 rather interesting.

It does sound like Phase 4 is also going to be a "next generation" kind of deal and we're not getting either a full reset or the Fox properties pouring in, which should make for an interesting approach. I wonder what their feeling will be when they get to the end of Phase 4, or if the whole "phase" thing is just going to end and they take a less regimented approach. I can't think of another storyline from the comics they can tap which doesn't go ridiculously OTT or involves the close involvement of characters and villains they don't have access to. Secret Wars I think will be challenging without access to the Fox villains (although they've now got Spidey's, so maybe not quite so much). Galactus feels like he should be in the mix but he's still with Fox, I think.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Devastated.

cantdeal

wtf

 

 

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Did the gauntlet and stones break when he snapped his fingers?