Avengers: Infinity War - SPOILERS THREAD

[Argonath Diver]

Wow, I'm impressed as hell. I absolutely expected the early deaths (Elba and Hiddleston out), was suitably shocked at Gamora going. Its clear that all the snap-of-a-thumb deaths will be reversed after some time reversal BS, but I certainly didn't expect such a hard-as-hell cliffhanger. 

My least favorite part of the movie was by far the every-15-minutes good guy choosing a loved one over half the universe thing. I get it, but for fuck' s sake they pulled that what 4 important fights? Fuck outta here. It was tiresome by the second repetition.

Minor beef, really. It's a comic book movie and I expect to be bludgeoned with comic book morals. 

I honestly enjoyed it a whole lot more than I expected to. The pacing was a bit odd, though they mostly pulled it off, going between depressing deaths and light banter every fifteen minutes or so. 

Will see it again this week and digest more. I certainly liked it truckloads more than Ultron. What a blatant tease until the finale, though. They're going to make 2 billion for a blatant Part 1.

[Mosi Mynn]

13 minutes ago, Risto said:

 

We don't know what happened with Adam.

Are the gold people from GotG2 still around? They've made him, haven't they?

[Mosi Mynn]

8 minutes ago, Argonath Diver said:

My least favorite part of the movie was by far the every-15-minutes good guy choosing a loved one over half the universe thing. I get it, but for fuck' s sake they pulled that what 4 important fights? Fuck outta here. It was tiresome by the second time.

Maybe it was a bit bludgeony, but I liked it.

Cap stated that they don't trade lives - setting them apart from Thanos who did trade the only person he loved.

Besides, Quill and Wanda did sacrifice the people they loved,  at their insistence , even though it didn't stick.

[Jeor]

40 minutes ago, Argonath Diver said:

My least favorite part of the movie was by far the every-15-minutes good guy choosing a loved one over half the universe thing. I get it, but for fuck' s sake they pulled that what 4 important fights? Fuck outta here. It was tiresome by the second repetition.

I got frustrated by this too. I know they wanted to set the heroes apart from Thanos, but they only needed to do it once or twice.

Adam is with the golden people from GOTG2 but I wonder if there's enough time to weave him into the story. I don't see the MCU overcomplicating things just so that they can follow the Comics storyline. I also doubt that Captain Marvel (the MCU version of Superman's powers) will burst onto the stage to save the day - even with that post-credits scene and her own origin movie it would feel like a late scene steal.

How they beat Thanos, I don't know. A guy with a fully equipped Infinity Gauntlet is by definition impossible to defeat. Though I will be disappointed if they do the "get it while he's sleeping" routine or the "how about you try and beat me without your shiny gauntlet" hero taunt thing. Thor sneaking up on him and severing his arm would also be a bit too easy.

Also, without Dr Strange, how they wind everything back will be pretty difficult - none of the other heroes has any particular skill or knowledge about time travel (except maybe Wong, but I don't see him as the saviour of the universe). Plus Rogers and Stark, the most likely wielders, are still only human so would presumably get fried if they tried to use the stones, though maybe they'll say the dwarf-forged gauntlet allows anyone to wield them and/or Stark/Rogers die resurrecting everyone.

All being said, I do hope in Part 2 we will see some more substantial roles for "lesser" characters such as Black Widow, Ant-Man and Hawkeye, even if the Big Three are bound to be the main anchors (Thor, Cap, Stark). Will be interesting if they do anything with Nebula and whether we'll get to see Korg and Valkyrie again.

I do think it's likely the heroes will change places - the originals who survived, some of them will die eventually in Part 2, and the newer ones who got disintegrated, most of them will live on. They can't possibly get rid of Black Panther et al after only just introducing them. The Disney accountants would go nuts.

[Mosi Mynn]

I've seen speculation on other threads that Ant Man's forays onto the quantum realm might play a part in time travel - and Strange knew that Tony had to live to make Scott a suit for that. 

Do we know how Captain Marvel gets from the 90s to now?  Does she time travel? Or does she not age? Why did Fury not contact her when he was putting the Avengers together?

I agree that the roster will change significantly for Phase 4. Cap, Tony and Thor will be gone one way or another, probably Nat and Rhodey too. Hopefully Sam will stick around to help/snark at Bucky.

[Jeor]

I wonder if they'll get rid of all three originals. It's true that all of them have had three of their own movies (if you count Civil War as Captain America's headliner) plus three Avengers movies (plus one more), so they've got plenty out of them, and Marvel have plenty of promising new franchises waiting in the wings (Spidey, Strange, GoTG, Black Panther). But it would take some balls from Disney to chop off three established golden geese unless all of the actors weren't interested in returning. That being said, they could die here and still have cameos in upcoming origin stories like Black Widow etc.

I might be biased (since I like Thor - a fellow Aussie, no less), but Stark or Cap would have the most emotional gravitas, as both could stake a claim to being the original superheroes and human heart of the Avengers.

[DaveSumm]

I tend to think of Marvel movies now as two things; movies, and events. As an event, Infinity War is incredible. It brings together 10 years of build up and manages to pull off a really bold ending. As a movie? I'm gonna have to stew on that for a while before I make up my mind. 

I can't help but question how this will fare once Avengers 4 has undone all these deaths. Infinity War felt like one giant scene of a film, in that there isn't room to do anything other than focus on the matter at hand: Thanos wants stones, Avengers need to stop this. The pressure builds and builds and builds and is then beautifully punctured as our heroes fail unequivocally. The trouble is, how will this be viewed in hindsight? How enjoyable will it be to sit down and watch Infinity War 10 years from now? I would go as far saying that this wouldn't be a particularly good movie if they had simply stopped Thanos in time. It really feels like it works because of the sense of dread, Thanos never once struggles to obtain the stones (they almost succeed in removing the ones he has, but actually getting them in the first place? He never breaks a sweat once.) And so your gut is telling you that our heroes will succeed, but your brain is telling you that Thanos can't be stopped. And he can't be.

But be honest, how much is the ending completely neutered by the knowledge that Black Panther 2, GotG 3, and Spider-Man 2 have all been announced? The second we saw characters we knew would survive flake away, we knew it wouldn't stick. I really envied my girlfriend who doesn't follow these things, who thought these people were really dead. Would it have been too difficult to delay that information? Maybe they wish they had but didn't plan ahead enough? Or could they have killed off people who we weren't sure were appearing in more movies (seems like there's enough there)?

So everyone's first question is "how will this be undone?" Nobody is seriously questioning if it will, just how. Which is a real, real shame. Imagine the gut punch if they'd pulled this off and we left the theatre truly wondering if they might just have done this. An MCU where half the universe is dead, forever. But nope, no way that'll happen.

At the very, very least, I would like to see characters living in and dealing with the world this movie has left. It'd be a huge disservice to the movie if by the end of Avengers 4, they've undone everything. My hope is that, back in the 90's, Captain Marvel somehow stumbles across a way to 'bottle' all of these flaked people and has prepared this in advance. So the events still happened, but there's a way to bring them back (and not Loki or Vision or Gamora, who died for real). So Avengers 4 is the 'old school' and Captain Marvel finally hunting down Thanos and killing him, removing the gauntlet and then undoing those deaths, but at great cost (presumably most of the old school will die for real). I wasn't sure if Thor's axe wound was supposed to be fatal? I thought Thanos went to watch the sunrise as he died, but then 'Thanos will return' apparently.

Is it confirmed that Ant-Man and the Wasp is set before this? That'd be a shame, and a bit tricky to inform the audience of. And poor Agents of SHIELD, lord only knows how they deal with this.

[briantw]

Not sure there's a movie that could better be summed up by the classic Spaceballs quote more than this one.

"Evil will always triumph because good is dumb."

Enjoyed the hell out of the movie, but man the good guys just made dumbass decisions right and left to allow Thanos to conquer everything.  I also felt most of the hero deaths at the end were for shock value (the guys we thought would die lived and the ones we assumed would live died) and will be undone in the sequel, which will inevitably feel cheap.

[Jeor]

It'll feel less cheap if there are some real deaths in Avengers 4. It is a pity that we knew about the sequels coming out (though they could be GotG prequels etc) but I don't think it would have been an oversight, as the MCU has basically the one guy - Kevin Feige - in charge of the whole slate and individually producing all the movies.

With Feige in creative control it actually feels like the MCU is really an extended TV series with Feige as showrunner. Each episode just happens to be a feature film.

[Mosi Mynn]

45 minutes ago, Jeor said:

I wonder if they'll get rid of all three originals. It's true that all of them have had three of their own movies (if you count Civil War as Captain America's headliner) plus three Avengers movies (plus one more), so they've got plenty out of them, and Marvel have plenty of promising new franchises waiting in the wings (Spidey, Strange, GoTG, Black Panther). But it would take some balls from Disney to chop off three established golden geese unless all of the actors weren't interested in returning. That being said, they could die here and still have cameos in upcoming origin stories like Black Widow etc.

I would not be surprised (though I would be devastated) to see both Steve Rogers and Tony Stark die in the next one - preferably together.  I would like for Tony to get a happy ending with Pepper, but I just don't see how they make him sit out these big events - he just can't do it.  If Steve could hand off the Captain America to Bucky and retire, that would be great.  But I can't see him stepping aside either.

Thor has a legitimate and definite reason to leave and lead the rest of his people.  He has a lot to do there, and it's perfectly acceptable for him to focus on them and leave the Avengers for a while!

[Luzifer's right hand]

 I watched a midnight showing on release day to avoid spoilers. 

I enjoyed it a lot and Thor+GotG was the best part imo. 

I dunno if killing characters like BP and Spiderman was a good idea though. That made it clear that a reset is comming. 

Just killing the GotG guys and some random adds would have worked for me. Groot could regrow from the axe handle and Starlord could have left some kind of seed behind too(being a halfplanet...) and you could bring Thema back without a total reset. 

Is it just me or did the gauntlet look damaged  before Thanos teleported out? 

 

[Bastard of Boston]

Whew. So much to process. I held my breath for the entire thing. Don't think I've exhaled yet. This isn't a horror movie, but it felt like watching The Quiet Place all over again. This blanket of dread draped over the entire film, and that's not a feeling I ever thought I'd associate with a Marvel movie. I don't care whether all of it will be reversed. In those moments, they made you feel the loss. This movie was a love letter to all those who invested in this universe for the previous 18 films. What an accomplishment. The consistency has been great. Seeing the payoff was remarkable.

Thanos was the star. It was also the perfect way to frame the movie, with so many competing elements. He was the through line -- the north star. Everything else fell so beautifully into place around him. This movie was a house of cards that stood tall every minute, every second, without wavering -- simply rock solid. His CGI was amazing. By the end, I completely forgot I wasn't watching a real person -- you could see Brolin's face shine through at all times. The way they got him to emote was nothing short of miraculous.

I've always struggled with Thanos in the comics. I knew his motivations, but they were always so abstract, even in their simplicity. In this movie, I don't think it would fly. His motivation here was tangible. It made sense, even if parts of it didn't...but he is the Mad Titan, so the parts of his motivation which had holes could always be chalked up to him being, well, fucking insane. Yes, wiping out half the universe means crippling the foundations of the worlds he's "saving," but if you're Thanos, you have a survival of the fittest slant, anyway. If you can't cut it in his new world order, you don't deserve to live.

On the hero side, the stars of this movie were absolutely Gamora, Doctor Strange, and Thor.

I felt Gamora was wasted in the GotG films and always lamented that Gunn should've done more with the character. The mother hen/love interest role she was previously saddled with was ridiculous for the deadliest woman in the universe. It took a movie with this gigantic cast of competing characters to finally give her some development...to make her something more than green wallpaper.

The relationship between Gamora and Thanos was the backbone of this film, and I'm so glad it was. I had goosebumps several times during this movie, and most of the time, it was when Gamora was on screen. That moment she came to the realization that Thanos loved her was crushing -- to realize it as you're being thrown off a cliff.

Some of my favorite parts of the movie were when it delved into Lord of the Rings territory, with the side quests taken by the characters -- Gamora and Thanos looking for the Soul Stone, while Thor went to forge a new weapon. Completely subverting expectations by making Peter Dinklage a giant was amazing.

Thor finally got to shine in an Avengers movie. He always felt tacked on in his previous Avengers appearances. Not here, though. This was also the perfect negotiation between his competing incarnations. As much as I like Ragnarok, the tonal shift from the first two Thor films was jarring. This movie took that Thor and seamlessly wove in the Ragnarok version.

I loved the scene between Thor and Rocket, where Hemsworth brilliantly navigated between obnoxious bravado and crushing vulnerability. This is where we see the seamless integration of tones. It smartly introduces the premise that Thor is 1500 years old. He's seen a lot of shit. He can shrug off a lot of shit. But there's only so much shit you can shrug off when you've lost everyone, and despite his best efforts, the God fluctuates between divine being and broken man here.

And Strange! He was such a great surprise, as this is the first time we saw him within an ensemble. I loved that he was given such a vital role in the narrative. In general, I like that the Russos didn't lean on the predictable bunch. I was expecting tons of Cap, Bucky, Black Panther, and Widow.

Tony and Peter continue to have some of the most poignant moments in the MCU. Tom Holland, man. The way this kid plays Peter Parker is perfection. The way he acted that scene, when he realized he was about to die? This is how a young hero should be written. Someone brave enough to risk his life, but also someone scared when he realizes he's about to lose it.

Other standouts were Wanda and Vision. There hasn't been the chance to truly sell this romance, but they managed to find a way to do it in this movie, amongst all the chaos.

Of the Black Order, Ebony Maw was, by far, the standout. I didn't really care that we lost all the others. Really hoping he finds a way to survive.

[red snow]

I don't really get the "how are they going to resolve this" in terms of deaths. Presumably if they get the infinity gauntlet they have the ability to undo/change reality as they wish. Great opportunity to bring FF and X-Men into the MCU too.

How they get the Gauntlet from Thanos is the tricky part.

While I think cap and stark are ready to bow out it feels like Thor has finally hit his stride and it would be a shame to lose him now. If Hemsworth is on board I feel like I could handle a few more films featuring Thor in his own or ensemble movies.

[ants]

Agreed, agreed, agreed. 

 

Also so loved how when Thor found out that Thanos was Gamora’s father. It could have gone different ways, but the way it did was so right. For these characters, families are hell. I still wish they’d done more with Hela, there was a heap more poignancy to be got there. 

[DaveSumm]

2 minutes ago, red snow said:

I don't really get the "how are they going to resolve this" in terms of deaths. Presumably if they get the infinity gauntlet they have the ability to undo/change reality as they wish..

Well that’s certainly a way, but isn’t it really lame? How would a rewatch of this movie fare if it closely resembles Part II, except it’s the version where they fail? It just seems to cheapen the deaths massively if they just say ‘no worries, let’s have a do-over!’. Then how far back do they go? Just save this movies deaths, or maybe some previous ones to?

It’s thin ice they’re treading here, I have faith they can pull something off, but I really hope it’s more than a do-over.

[Mosi Mynn]

Totally agree about Thor - it would be a shame to lose him.  I loved his response to Gamora/Thanos too.

I'm wondering if someone (Tony?) gets hold of the Infinity Gauntlet in Part 2 to reverse the damage, and they have to take him down when it either gets too much for him, or he gets too in to it.

[red snow]

1 hour ago, DaveSumm said:

Well that’s certainly a way, but isn’t it really lame? How would a rewatch of this movie fare if it closely resembles Part II, except it’s the version where they fail? It just seems to cheapen the deaths massively if they just say ‘no worries, let’s have a do-over!’. Then how far back do they go? Just save this movies deaths, or maybe some previous ones to?

It’s thin ice they’re treading here, I have faith they can pull something off, but I really hope it’s more than a do-over.

I think they put themselves in a bind by "killing" franchise certs like Spidey and the majority of the guardians (who have future film releases). How do you resurrect some and not others? Seems callous if they only pick them. Maybe those who die prior to the 50% cull stay dead eg Loki (more accurately Hiddleston) Gamorra and Vision. Although I think Vision might only be dead as long as soul stone isn't there.

Trying to resurrect Gamorra could be kept as the theme of GOTG. I'm guessing Thanos could bring her back and hide her somewhere.

I also think the next film will be all about the surviving avengers dealing with such a loss until the final act so the cop out will still feel earned hopefully and those who initially survived may even remember events.

Out there theory is that everyone who turned to dust is now in some afterlife dimension and we will see them trying to defeat Thanos or escape from there. That would maybe even help justify Thanos mission. Half of life in the living universe and half of life in the dead universe.

[Slurktan]

1 hour ago, DaveSumm said:

Well that’s certainly a way, but isn’t it really lame? How would a rewatch of this movie fare if it closely resembles Part II, except it’s the version where they fail? It just seems to cheapen the deaths massively if they just say ‘no worries, let’s have a do-over!’. Then how far back do they go? Just save this movies deaths, or maybe some previous ones to?

It’s thin ice they’re treading here, I have faith they can pull something off, but I really hope it’s more than a do-over.

If it is going to be a silly punch up then some idiot like iron man or cap puts on the glove then yes it will cheapen the movie.  However I'd argue that this movie sets up that will not happen, what will happen is Thanos has a redemption arc and will do it himself while presumably dying.  Predictable but in a much better way that doesn't cheapen the deaths.

[Fez]

I've never read the comics, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought in them that Thanos wanted to end half the universe as a way to impress the literal personification of Death?

If so, that's goofy in it's own way, but seems like a better motivation than this "finite resources" thing that feels really half-baked.

[RumHam]

26 minutes ago, red snow said:

Out there theory is that everyone who turned to dust is now in some afterlife dimension and we will see them trying to defeat Thanos or escape from there. That would maybe even help justify Thanos mission. Half of life in the living universe and half of life in the dead universe.

I've seen people suggest they're trapped in the soul stone.