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What is the origin of Daenerys’s three dragon eggs?

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http://www.georgerrmartin.com/grrm_book/fire-and-blood/

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What really happened during the Dance of the Dragons? Why did it become so deadly to visit Valyria after the Doom? What is the origin of Daenerys’s three dragon eggs? These are but a few of the questions answered in this essential chronicle, as related by a learned maester of the Citadel and featuring more than eighty all-new black-and-white illustrations by artist Doug Wheatley. Readers have glimpsed small parts of this narrative in such volumes as The World of Ice & Fire, but now, for the first time, the full tapestry of Targaryen history is revealed.

Viserys II's dragon egg in Lys which could be possessed by Serra and Illyrio later? 

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I really don't think that's going to be answered in that book. That reads like a press release by somebody who never even read the book in question.

Especially since we already know the answer of the second question, no? At least since ADwD.

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With all the scope and grandeur of Gibbon’s The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, Fire and Blood is the ultimate game of thrones, giving readers a whole new appreciation for the dynamic, often bloody, and always fascinating history of Westeros.

My goodness...

Edited by Lost Melnibonean

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The origin of the dragon eggs has been one of the great mysteries. We know young Targaryens, at least until "recently", were given dragon eggs at birth. Even after the eggs stopped hatching, they'd be passed along. Did Viserys at one time have one (or any?) and had to sell it? (Probably not; no mention of this, ever) Did Aerys have a family cache? Were Illyrio's eggs bought from some Blackfyres who fled to Essos? Or might they have come from mysterious Assha'i, and have no Targaryen connection? Or could they be from elsewhere? Did a secret expedition make it to Lost Valyria and managed to return?

For that matter, what's the history of that infamous dragonbone/Valyrian steel dagger that was used on  Lady Catelyn?

I'm one of those curmudgeons who is quietly annoyed every time George RR announces a new book - and it isn't "The Winds of Winter." Not that I'd ever say so.

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Illyrio claims in AGOT that Daenerys's dragon eggs are from the Shadow Lands beyond Asshai, but I have always thought it more likely that they are eggs which were previously possessed by the Targaryens. Aegon V possessed at least seven dragon eggs at Summerhall in 259, and Aerys II tried to hatch dragon eggs found in Dragonstone some time after Duskendale (277-283).

The World of Ice and Fire - The Targaryen Kings: Aegon V
"...the blood of the dragon gathered in one... ...seven eggs, to honor the seven gods, though the king's own septon had warned... ...pyromancers... ...wild fire... ...flames grew out of control...towering...burned so hot that... ...died, but for the valor of the Lord Comman..."

The World of Ice and Fire - The Targaryen Kings: Aerys II
"In the wake of Duskendale, the king also began to display signs of an ever-increasing obsession with dragonfire, similar to that which had haunted several of his forebears. Lord Darklyn would never have dared defy him if he had been a dragonrider, Aerys reasoned. His attempts to bring forth dragons from eggs found in the depths of Dragonstone (some so old that they had turned to stone) yielded naught, however."
 

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47 minutes ago, Bael's Bastard said:

eggs found in the depths of Dragonstone (some so old that they had turned to stone)

Whoa! Thanks for finding this!

At one point in Clash of Kings, I think, it was noted that Stannis and Melisandre had been exploring the caves under Dragonstone. People in the story have all been assuming that "raising dragons from stone" referred to bringing the castle's stone dragon ornamentation to life. But if there are still eggs, in "stone" form ...

I'd further assume that Aegon V took only 7 eggs out of some unknown number available, because more had been left for Aerys II, and probably some still remain. Has Stannis moved any of them into the light of day ("R'hllor")? Is he carrying egg(s) with him? What about after, when Ser Loras takes Dragonstone? Does Cersei now theoretically have dragon's eggs as well?

For that matter, did Ser Willem Derry take any dragon's eggs as part of Viserys and Daenerys's legacy, along with their mother's crown? Dany never refers to any eggs, nor does Viserys mention any, but they were young back then. Dany does recollect that the servants stole nearly everything they had and ran off when Ser Willem died. Could they have taken the eggs? Might Illyriio at some point have bought them?

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29 minutes ago, zandru said:

Whoa! Thanks for finding this!

At one point in Clash of Kings, I think, it was noted that Stannis and Melisandre had been exploring the caves under Dragonstone. People in the story have all been assuming that "raising dragons from stone" referred to bringing the castle's stone dragon ornamentation to life. But if there are still eggs, in "stone" form ...

I'd further assume that Aegon V took only 7 eggs out of some unknown number available, because more had been left for Aerys II, and probably some still remain. Has Stannis moved any of them into the light of day ("R'hllor")? Is he carrying egg(s) with him? What about after, when Ser Loras takes Dragonstone? Does Cersei now theoretically have dragon's eggs as well?

For that matter, did Ser Willem Derry take any dragon's eggs as part of Viserys and Daenerys's legacy, along with their mother's crown? Dany never refers to any eggs, nor does Viserys mention any, but they were young back then. Dany does recollect that the servants stole nearly everything they had and ran off when Ser Willem died. Could they have taken the eggs? Might Illyriio at some point have bought them?

In AFFC, Sam wonders if Stannis found a dragon egg on Dragonstone, and Cersei seems to believe that Stannis hadn't. Not sure if there are any other quotes about the matter.

A Feast for Crows - Samwell I
There were dragons here two hundred years ago, Sam found himself thinking, as he watched the cage making a slow descent. They would just have flown to the top of the Wall. Queen Alysanne had visited Castle Black on her dragon, and Jaehaerys, her king, had come after her on his own. Could Silverwing have left an egg behind? Or had Stannis found one egg on Dragonstone? Even if he has an egg, how can he hope to quicken it? Baelor the Blessed had prayed over his eggs, and other Targaryens had sought to hatch theirs with sorcery. All they got for it was farce and tragedy.

A Feast for Crows - Cersei VIII
Lord Hallyne of the Guild of Alchemists presented himself, to ask that his pyromancers be allowed to hatch any dragon's eggs that might turn up upon Dragonstone, now that the isle was safely back in royal hands. "If any such eggs remained, Stannis would have sold them to pay for his rebellion," the queen told him. She refrained from saying that the plan was mad. Ever since the last Targaryen dragon had died, all such attempts had ended in death, disaster, or disgrace.

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So, is thread about the three eggs, or what to expect from Fire and Blood Vol. 1? 

If it's about the eggs... That 1993 letter the George sent to his publisher suggested that he was going to have Daenerys find petrified eggs on the edge of the Dothraki Sea. As he continued writing the story, though, he apparently decided to have Illyrio gift them at her wedding. And he had Daenerys explain that Illyrio was a trader in dragonbone with trading relationships in the east. So, at the time Game was written, I see no reason to doubt that the eggs were acquired by Illyrio, originating from the Shadow Lands beyond Asshai.

And this fits with the vision Bran has in Bran III, Game, where the boy sees Asshai by the Shadow and dragons stirring beneath the sunrise, a foreshadowing that Daenerys's eggs were about to hatch. 

Since the George already had the basics of the Targaryen family tree worked out before Storm was finished, I see no reason to believe that the George decided later in his development of the tale that the eggs should have been from a more recent clutch in King's Landing or Dragonstone. 

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36 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

So, is thread about the three eggs, or what to expect from Fire and Blood Vol. 1? 

If it's about the eggs... That 1993 letter the George sent to his publisher suggested that he was going to have Daenerys find petrified eggs on the edge of the Dothraki Sea. As he continued writing the story, though, he apparently decided to have Illyrio gift them at her wedding. And he had Daenerys explain that Illyrio was a trader in dragonbone with trading relationships in the east. So, at the time Game was written, I see no reason to doubt that the eggs were acquired by Illyrio, originating from the Shadow Lands beyond Asshai.

And this fits with the vision Bran has in Bran III, Game, where the boy sees Asshai by the Shadow and dragons stirring beneath the sunrise, a foreshadowing that Daenerys's eggs were about to hatch. 

Since the George already had the basics of the Targaryen family tree worked out before Storm was finished, I see no reason to believe that the George decided later in his development of the tale that the eggs should have been from a more recent clutch in King's Landing or Dragonstone. 

That makes sense. But, in addition to the mentions of recent Targ kings having dragon eggs (Aegon V and Aerys II), it is odd that the question in the preview for Fire and Blood would mention the origins of Dany's dragon eggs if it just coincides with what Illyrio explicitly states in one of the first chapters of the first book. Then again, since this volume only covers Aegon I to part way through the reign of Aegon III, I am not sure how it could address that anyway. I am not sure it could really address that question even if it were the whole Fire and Blood.

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33 minutes ago, Bael's Bastard said:

That makes sense. But, in addition to the mentions of recent Targ kings having dragon eggs (Aegon V and Aerys II), it is odd that the question in the preview for Fire and Blood would mention the origins of Dany's dragon eggs if it just coincides with what Illyrio explicitly states in one of the first chapters of the first book. Then again, since this volume only covers Aegon I to part way through the reign of Aegon III, I am not sure how it could address that anyway. I am not sure it could really address that question even if it were the whole Fire and Blood.

We will find out soon enough whether it does or not. 

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23 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

I think they were "lost" in the Free Cities when Aegon III sent a mission to the east to try to hatch them, which turned into a debacle.

The way I always read that is that Prince Viserys did call on the nine mages to come to Westeros and hatch the eggs there, not the other way around. There is no reason to assume that the eggs left the Seven Kingdoms.

4 hours ago, Bael's Bastard said:

Illyrio claims in AGOT that Daenerys's dragon eggs are from the Shadow Lands beyond Asshai, but I have always thought it more likely that they are eggs which were previously possessed by the Targaryens. Aegon V possessed at least seven dragon eggs at Summerhall in 259, and Aerys II tried to hatch dragon eggs found in Dragonstone some time after Duskendale (277-283).

The World of Ice and Fire - The Targaryen Kings: Aegon V
"...the blood of the dragon gathered in one... ...seven eggs, to honor the seven gods, though the king's own septon had warned... ...pyromancers... ...wild fire... ...flames grew out of control...towering...burned so hot that... ...died, but for the valor of the Lord Comman..."

The World of Ice and Fire - The Targaryen Kings: Aerys II
"In the wake of Duskendale, the king also began to display signs of an ever-increasing obsession with dragonfire, similar to that which had haunted several of his forebears. Lord Darklyn would never have dared defy him if he had been a dragonrider, Aerys reasoned. His attempts to bring forth dragons from eggs found in the depths of Dragonstone (some so old that they had turned to stone) yielded naught, however."
 

Chances are not that bad that the eggs at Summerhall were either destroyed by the fire/collapse of the palace, or at least forever lost in the debris thereafter.

The eggs Aerys II uncovered on Dragonstone are very suspicious since they share the whole 'the age turned to stone' thing with Dany's, and they are obviously not in the possession of Kings Robert, Joffrey, or Tommen. Which means they could have taken the road Prince Aegon allegedly took - to Illyrio in Pentos, via Varys.

3 hours ago, zandru said:

Whoa! Thanks for finding this!

At one point in Clash of Kings, I think, it was noted that Stannis and Melisandre had been exploring the caves under Dragonstone. People in the story have all been assuming that "raising dragons from stone" referred to bringing the castle's stone dragon ornamentation to life. But if there are still eggs, in "stone" form ...

It seems they did not find any such eggs, indicating that the eggs Aerys II found on Dragonstone were the last - eggs that were brought to the Red Keep by the king's people who then unsuccessfully tried to hatch them. From there they may have gone to Illyrio after the chaos of the Sack allowed Varys to steal them.

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For that matter, did Ser Willem Derry take any dragon's eggs as part of Viserys and Daenerys's legacy, along with their mother's crown? Dany never refers to any eggs, nor does Viserys mention any, but they were young back then. Dany does recollect that the servants stole nearly everything they had and ran off when Ser Willem died. Could they have taken the eggs? Might Illyriio at some point have bought them?

There is no indication to believe that any of Aerys II's children got any dragon eggs. George doesn't seem to have had the idea of dragon eggs in the cradles of royal children until he wrote TMK (or sent his descriptions of Baelor's sisters to Amok - Princess Elaena is the first Targaryen aside from Daenerys to have owned a dragon egg - at least if we look at the chronology of George's writing).

2 hours ago, Bael's Bastard said:

In AFFC, Sam wonders if Stannis found a dragon egg on Dragonstone, and Cersei seems to believe that Stannis hadn't. Not sure if there are any other quotes about the matter.

The final quote on the matter is in the Epilogue when they discuss that Loras' people did not, in fact, find dragon eggs on Dragonstone.

I never realized that this dragon eggs plot gets so much space in AFfC/ADwD. That could be a hint that there is some buildup there. After all, Aegon might have gotten some dragon eggs, too, and might end up trying to hatch them - and succeed at that.

Or he is going to go searching for dragon eggs on Dragonstone, too, only to find the Cannibal.

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2 hours ago, Bael's Bastard said:

"If any such eggs remained, Stannis would have sold them to pay for his rebellion," the queen told him.

Ha! That's Cersei for you. She'll take the first idea that comes to mind, particularly if it's insulting to the person accused, and go with it, without any interest or curiosity about facts. But, as we know, Stannis and Melisandre were exploring the caves beneath Dragonstone and Mel is promising to "wake dragons from stone." Every time Cersei dismisses the talk of dragons, I like to think of her expression when one flames her...

2 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

And this fits with the vision Bran has in Bran III, Game, where the boy sees Asshai by the Shadow and dragons stirring beneath the sunrise, a foreshadowing that Daenerys's eggs were about to hatch. 

I like this idea, too. There's the possibility here that Daenerys's dragons were never domesticated by the ancient Valyrians then, much less the Targaryen family.

Clearly, I'm not committed to any particular theory...

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2 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

The way I always read that is that Prince Viserys did call on the nine mages to come to Westeros and hatch the eggs there, not the other way around. There is no reason to assume that the eggs left the Seven Kingdoms.

Chances are not that bad that the eggs at Summerhall were either destroyed by the fire/collapse of the palace, or at least forever lost in the debris thereafter.

The eggs Aerys II uncovered on Dragonstone are very suspicious since they share the whole 'the age turned to stone' thing with Dany's, and they are obviously not in the possession of Kings Robert, Joffrey, or Tommen. Which means they could have taken the road Prince Aegon allegedly took - to Illyrio in Pentos, via Varys.

It seems they did not find any such eggs, indicating that the eggs Aerys II found on Dragonstone were the last - eggs that were brought to the Red Keep by the king's people who then unsuccessfully tried to hatch them. From there they may have gone to Illyrio after the chaos of the Sack allowed Varys to steal them.

There is no indication to believe that any of Aerys II's children got any dragon eggs. George doesn't seem to have had the idea of dragon eggs in the cradles of royal children until he wrote TMK (or sent his descriptions of Baelor's sisters to Amok - Princess Elaena is the first Targaryen aside from Daenerys to have owned a dragon egg - at least if we look at the chronology of George's writing).

The final quote on the matter is in the Epilogue when they discuss that Loras' people did not, in fact, find dragon eggs on Dragonstone.

I never realized that this dragon eggs plot gets so much space in AFfC/ADwD. That could be a hint that there is some buildup there. After all, Aegon might have gotten some dragon eggs, too, and might end up trying to hatch them - and succeed at that.

Or he is going to go searching for dragon eggs on Dragonstone, too, only to find the Cannibal.

When did the George send his descriptions of Baelor's sisters to Amok? 

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5 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

The final quote on the matter is in the Epilogue when they discuss that Loras' people did not, in fact, find dragon eggs on Dragonstone.

Thanks for this. I'd forgotten. I guess we're back to the idea of Melisandre animating the castle decor again. I'd say she's crazy, but for those shadow babies...

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1 minute ago, zandru said:

I like this idea, too. There's the possibility here that Daenerys's dragons were never domesticated by the ancient Valyrians then, much less the Targaryen family.

Clearly, I'm not committed to any particular theory...

Me neither. I assume that Illyrio acquired these eggs in the course of his dragonbone trading and gifted them to Daenerys at her wedding as a plot device, but I am open to the idea that they did come from a more recent Targaryen clutch. The author has left the possibility open, intentionally or not, but I don't see where he has given the reader a hit that three eggs are Targaryen eggs. That connection is speculative. It might be true, but I am not ready to make the leap yet. 

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39 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

The way I always read that is that Prince Viserys did call on the nine mages to come to Westeros and hatch the eggs there, not the other way around. There is no reason to assume that the eggs left the Seven Kingdoms.

Yeah, it is pretty explicit that the nine mages came to Westeros.

A Storm of Swords - Davos V
"The look Stannis gave her was dark. "Nine mages crossed the sea to hatch Aegon the Third's cache of eggs. Baelor the Blessed prayed over his for half a year. Aegon the Fourth built dragons of wood and iron. Aerion Brightflame drank wildfire to transform himself. The mages failed, King Baelor's prayers went unanswered, the wooden dragons burned, and Prince Aerion died screaming.""

39 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Chances are not that bad that the eggs at Summerhall were either destroyed by the fire/collapse of the palace, or at least forever lost in the debris thereafter.

The eggs Aerys II uncovered on Dragonstone are very suspicious since they share the whole 'the age turned to stone' thing with Dany's, and they are obviously not in the possession of Kings Robert, Joffrey, or Tommen. Which means they could have taken the road Prince Aegon allegedly took - to Illyrio in Pentos, via Varys.

I'm not clear on how easy or difficult it is for dragon eggs to be destroyed. It seems plausible that the eggs could have been lost in the debris, but with them being worth so much, it seems unlikely nobody would have gone looking for them, though no guarantee they would be found. Maybe Rhaegar found them before he lost his rubies. :D

Yes, I find the idea of Varys "rescuing" three dragon eggs much more likely than Varys rescuing baby Aegon.




 

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50 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Me neither. I assume that Illyrio acquired these eggs in the course of his dragonbone trading and gifted them to Daenerys at her wedding as a plot device, but I am open to the idea that they did come from a more recent Targaryen clutch. The author has left the possibility open, intentionally or not, but I don't see where he has given the reader a hit that three eggs are Targaryen eggs. That connection is speculative. It might be true, but I am not ready to make the leap yet. 

I don't think there is an explicit hint that they are Targaryen eggs. But I think there may be something to the idea that there is some link between dragonriding families and their dragons. The fact that incest was a pre-Doom Valyrian custom when there were dozens of dragonlord families, rather than just a post-Doom Targaryen custom when there was just one, indicates that the dragonlord families might have believed it important to keep their bloodines "pure" even from other families of dragonlords. Even if they had such beliefs, that doesn't mean they were based on fact, but still, it is not out of the realm of possibility that certain lines of dragons have some magical tie to certain lines of families.

Edited by Bael's Bastard

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