Could Ned knight someone? Further, does lordship or kingship enable you to make knights?

[Davjos]

8 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Jory said that most old northern houses usually don't make or have knights, and like Cat said an oath of service is not a knight.

As far as Kings, idk. But Queens, Dany asked Jorah to knight Whiteboard, so I guess Dany couldn't herself

Actually, I think Stannis knighted Davos

I assume that Dany asked Jorah because Jorah is a Westerosi Knight. He is knighted under the 7 and his banishment did not take away his knighthood. Dany is Queen of Mereen and has claim on Westeros. She could knight people in Mereen, I think. But she is not 'anointed', nor crowned in Westeros, thus she has no right to knight someone under Westerosi Law. The knighthood would not be valid in Westeros. 

[LindsayLohan]

Just a fun note: Ned's father, Lord Richard, was a knight. When Jaime recalls Rickard's death, he notes Rickard's silver spurs melting into the wildfire.

[Frey family reunion]

4 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

doesn't Walter asks for Robb to knight Olyver in the future or something?

It sure seems to be the case:

Quote

“Lord Frey’s son Olyvar will be coming with us,” she went on. “He is to serve as your personal squire. His father would like to see him knighted, in good time.”
“A squire.” He shrugged. “Fine, that’s fine, if he’s—”

One can argue that it is not specified who would Knight Olyvar, but it is interesting that Olyvar was to serve as Robb’s squire.  Isn’t the definition of a squire, someone who is in service to a knight?  And at this point in the story Robb is neither king, lord, or knight.

[TMIFairy]

23 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

It sure seems to be the case:

One can argue that it is not specified who would Knight Olyvar, but it is interesting that Olyvar was to serve as Robb’s squire.  Isn’t the definition of a squire, someone who is in service to a knight?  And at this point in the story Robb is neither king, lord, or knight.

This is the first book - GRRM makes up shit as he goes along - so Robb not being personally able to knight Olyvar was "not invented yet". Also, Catelyn and Walder could had been talking "southron" - using terminology not fully appropriate for Robb's "notherness".

Squire also has the meaning of "apprentice to heavy cavalryman of high birth", hence in this sense of the word squiring for Robb is fully appropriate..

Or maybe this mention of "eventually knighted" might even mean that GRRM had already decided upon "sers" being rare in the North and that Robb was to find somebody to knight Olyvar at some point.

At this point Robb is an "acting lord" already - and a high ranking aristocrat at the very least - so having a squire is IMO natural for somebody of such stature.

[Hugorfonics]

4 hours ago, The South Forgets said:

But he was. It's just that a lordship is a greater title than knighthood, so he assumes the title of a lord, the same way Jaime is referred to as Lord Jaime, not Ser Jaime

I dont think Stannis is a knight. And people do call him Ser Jaime.

 

3 hours ago, Stormking902 said:

Who said Stannis wasnt a knight? He was from a martial family in the SL id assume he was a knight more then not, Renly was a knight for god sakes. 

 

Was he? Renly had a squire, and almost undoubtedly knighted him (good catch!) but I don't think he was a knight.

None of the three Barathron boys ever mention being a knight, so I think it's safe to assume they're not.

1 hour ago, Jekse said:

On the Wiki;
''Any knight can make a knight. However, kings can make knights as well, even if they were never knighted themselves. On the other hand, Lord cannot dub someone a knight if they have not previously been knighted themselves''

This means Ned/Eddard isn't allowed to knight someone.

I wouldn't trust wiki. If anything it's the opposite. Kings like Joffrey or Dany won't knight someone but lorda like Renly and Stannis will

[Hugorfonics]

1 hour ago, Ethelarion said:

I assume that Dany asked Jorah because Jorah is a Westerosi Knight. He is knighted under the 7 and his banishment did not take away his knighthood. Dany is Queen of Mereen and has claim on Westeros. She could knight people in Mereen, I think. But she is not 'anointed', nor crowned in Westeros, thus she has no right to knight someone under Westerosi Law. The knighthood would not be valid in Westeros. 

That could be it, but Im pretty sure Dany believea she is Westeros, being a Targaryen and all.

 

46 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

It sure seems to be the case:

One can argue that it is not specified who would Knight Olyvar, but it is interesting that Olyvar was to serve as Robb’s squire.  Isn’t the definition of a squire, someone who is in service to a knight?  And at this point in the story Robb is neither king, lord, or knight.

Interesting

[Jekse]

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

I wouldn't trust wiki. If anything it's the opposite. Kings like Joffrey or Dany won't knight someone but lorda like Renly and Stannis will

What make's you think that? Joffrey knighted a lot of people after the Battle of the Blackwater.
 

@The Sunland Lord Thank you

[Hugorfonics]

Just now, Jekse said:

What make's you think that? Joffrey knighted a lot of people after the Battle of the Blackwater.
 

@The Sunland Lord Thank you

Are you sure? iirc Bronn told Tyrion the kg did

[Jekse]

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

iirc Bronn told Tyrion the kg did

True

[TMIFairy]

Ser Jaime is called now called Lord Jaime because he is Lord Commander.

[Megorova]

Any knight can make a knight. This is known from The Hedge Knight novel. Also it doesn't matter what's the faith of people, that do the knighting, or those that are getting knighted. 

Stannis and Ned most likely were knights. Probably they were knighted Stannis by Robert, and Ned by Jon Arryn.

Robert Baratheon and Brandon Stark both were knights. Because only knights can participate in tournaments. This is also known from The Hedge Knight. There are some tournaments, or rather mini-tournaments made specifically for squires. It isn't necessary to be a knight, to participate in one of those.

Though even for normal tournaments, there's some sort of a cheat, how to participate in a tournament, even if you're not a knight. That's if the participant is a mystery knight. For example like the Knight of the Laughing Tree/Lyanna Stark, at Harrenhal's tournament. Barristan Selmy when he was 10 years old, and squired for Manfred Swann, participated as a mystery knight in the Blackhaven Tournament. Simon Toyne, leader of gang Kingswood Brotherhood, participated as a mystery knight in Tournament at Storm's End. Robert Baratheon also participated in that tournament, and was defeated by prince Rhaegar.

Could be that Ned and Robert both were knighted by Jon Arryn. That's because Robert was knighted, while he was fostered in The Vale. And both Arryns and Royces were knights, because they participated in 207 AC in Tournament at Maidenpool, and both were defeated by Humfrey Hardyng, that became champion of that tournament.

So in The Vale there are three major families, whose members were knights, and probably knighted people from their households - Arryns, Royces, Hardyngs. Also probably all Knights of The Vale are actually knights, all of them.

So maybe Robert knighted Stannis, when he named him Lord of Dragonstone. And then Stannis also knighted Davos. Though probably there's not that many knights in The North, because their weather conditions are too bad for helding tournaments, so they don't have them, and thus there's no need for them to be knights. Though some of them become knighted anyway. For example like Jorah Mormont, who became knighted specifically to participate in tournaments.

Thus Ned can knight people. Probably he even knighted Robb, prior he went to King's Landing, and left Robb rule Winterfell as head of their House. 

[Stormking902]

The fact that the Tyrells sent Loras Tyrell to be page for Renly and later his squire proves IMO either A) Renly is indeed a knight or  Lords or "at least" lord Paramounts can make knights. 

Stannis also makes Ser Davos a knight before he is king and it seems before he was even lord of Dragonstone. 

[The Wondering Wolf]

1 hour ago, Megorova said:

Thus Ned can knight people. Probably he even knighted Robb, prior he went to King's Landing, and left Robb rule Winterfell as head of their House. 

Sure. And on the way to King's Landing he knighted Mycah. And then me and my dog.

There is an SSM about the fosterage of Ned and Robert, stating that Ned in opposite to Robert was not training to become a knight.

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Some_Questions

[Megorova]

28 minutes ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

Sure. And on the way to King's Landing he knighted Mycah. And then me and my dog.

There is an SSM about the fosterage of Ned and Robert, stating that Ned in opposite to Robert was not training to become a knight.

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Some_Questions

Doesn't mean that he wasn't knighted eventually, maybe by King Robert, after Robert's Rebellion, or after Greyjoy's rebellion. It isn't 100% definite that Ned wasn't a knight.

[Nowy Tends]

3 hours ago, Megorova said:

Thus Ned can knight people. Probably he even knighted Robb, prior he went to King's Landing, and left Robb rule Winterfell as head of their House. 

It doesn't make sense. A knight takes an oath to uphold the values of the Faith of the Seven.

Jory Cassel, captain of the guard in Winterfell, is not a knight.

Rodrick Cassel and Jorah Mormont are the 2 exceptions, and given their age we can suppose they were made knights for their bravoure on a battle field…

I'm almost sure there is a passage in AGOT in which Maester Luwin tells Bran that northern Houses that worship the old gods name no knights…

[Valyrian Lance]

SSM Regarding this.

 

Quote

To settle an old debate on EZBoard, any king can make a knight but any lord cannot. That lord must be a knight as well. So Baelor I could make knights but Eddard could not. George said the more important thing for kings is making lords. The problem is giving lands.

 

[The Wondering Wolf]

3 hours ago, Megorova said:

Doesn't mean that he wasn't knighted eventually, maybe by King Robert, after Robert's Rebellion, or after Greyjoy's rebellion. It isn't 100% definite that Ned wasn't a knight.

It is not definite that Pycelle has never been knighted, either. The amount of textual evidence might be the same.

[Varysblackfyre321]

12 hours ago, Megorova said:

Stannis and Ned most likely were knights. Probably they were knighted Stannis by Robert, and Ned by Jon Arryn.

Stannis hates the gods(I don't know what religiously he'd even qualify as-an anti-theist?)-he's not going to be making any oaths to the 7 whove shown to be useless from his POV. Ned believes strictly in the old gods; him becoming a knight is like a orthodox Jew becoming a priest-it wouldn't make sense much on his part.

[Lord Lannister]

As mentioned Stannis knighted Davos. I never recall any mention of Ser Stannis holding Storms End as he'd certainly be called then if he was a knight. I was also left with the distinct impression that Walder Frey expected Robb to knight Olyvar as part of the alliance. If all Wlader wanted was a knighthood for his son, he has any number of sworn knights who could do it. Being knighted by the Warden of the North means something more than just some random knight.

[Megorova]

10 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Stannis hates the gods(I don't know what religiously he'd even qualify as-an anti-theist?)-he's not going to be making any oaths to the 7 whove shown to be useless from his POV. Ned believes strictly in the old gods; him becoming a knight is like a orthodox Jew becoming a priest-it wouldn't make sense much on his part.

Wasn't Ned married in the faith of Seven, even though his religion was faith of Old Gods? Valemen are mostly Andals. Many of them are knights. Arryns, Royces, and Hardings were knights for many generations. Even their troops are called Knights of The Vale, because they are knights, not just warriors. Jon Arryn's religion was faith of the Seven, same as Lysa's and Cat's. And the wedding was held in a region, that also was mostly pro-Seven. I don't see a reason, why wouldn't Jon Arryn knight Ned in span of Robert's Rebellion, or Robert knight Ned after the war, when he became a King.

Also Stannis may hate the gods, but he did knighted Davos. Which means that either he also was a knight, or he was a Prince (of Dragonstone). Because kings and princes also can knight anyone, same as High Septon.

As @Lord Lannister said, Walder was expecting that Robb will knight Olyvar. That's what Cat said, prior revealing that Robb will have to marry with a Frey girl. Which means, that by that point, Robb himself was already a knight. Maybe Ned himself didn't cared about knighthood, but the same thing couldn't be said about Cat. Could be that Cat asked King Robert, to knight Robb, prior Ned left Winterfell. Even though it wasn't written in the books, doesn't mean that it never happened.