What was Cat thinking kidnapping Tyrion?

[Stormking902]

It was idiotic in the fullest and cost her family both Tullys and Starks everything including Robb and Neds life, I was just curious on the forums opinion on what was the bast case scenario in "Cats" opinion?. 

 

Why arrest Tyrion at all? Its not her place to do so for one and two wouldnt this matter be better suited for the KING who BTW is Neds best friend?. Couldnt she at least warned her father first instead of leaving them to deal with Tywins wrath?. 

[Lollygag]

Cat was despondent after Bran’s fall. She neglected herself, Robb and everyone else, her duties. Her emotions when they kick in override everything and she’s never learned to control that. There was no one to blame before being an accident, she had no way to focus her emotions. Bran’s attacked and suddenly Catelyn has something to push the pain away: revenge. In seconds, Catelyn completely changes.

Catelyn needed to believe that someone was guilty otherwise she’d go back to drowning in her emotions. LF gave that to her.

When Catelyn released Jaime, she had given on her revenge. Her despondency returned and she again had trouble seeing through her emotions.

I think it’s easy to armchair criticize her, but she wasn’t able to control her emotions and it got the better of her. She just did it on a massive scale over a situation of extreme grief.

 

[Megorova]

I think that it was an impulsive decision, and at that time Cat wasn't thinking at all. Sansa did inherited her stupidity from one of her parents. And even though Ned was a bit too naive, he wasn't stupid. Thus this part of her personality, Sansa got from her mother. Just look at Sansa, and think what kind of person could have given birth to, and raised someone like Sansa.

By the way, there's a good thread about Sansa's personality

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/150894-sansa-and-cognitive-dissonance/

I think that in Starks' family, Bran and Arya were Ned's children, while Robb and Sansa were their mother's prince and princess. Both of them had serious flaws of personality, both Robb and Sansa were stupid. And they got this trait from their mother.

So think about that matter like this - What was thinking Sansa's mother, when she did that utter stupidity? - answer - She wasn't thinking, she saw Tyrion, and she acted. And what kind of consequences those actions could have, and what damage could it cause to her family, wasn't on her mind at that moment.

[UnFit Finlay]

8 minutes ago, Stormking902 said:

Why arrest Tyrion at all? Its not her place to do so for one and two wouldnt this matter be better suited for the KING who BTW is Neds best friend?. Couldnt she at least warned her father first instead of leaving them to deal with Tywins wrath?. 

Who is married to the sister of the man who she believed hired an assassin to have her son killed. There's no way that she could've trusted that Robert would take Ned's side over Cersei's. Not without a whole lot of evidence that she really didn't have.

I'm assuming her best case scenario was to extract a confession from Tyrion. Which likely would've worked - If he had actually been guilty. That would've given her something tangible to take to Robert.

On the whole though, I think it was a rash and impulsive decision and any planning came after the fact. I don't blame her though. I'm sure plenty of mothers would do the same, or worse, in a similar situation.

[Lady Jowana]

She believed that Tyrion sent the assassin to kill Bran so it’s easy to predict that she wanted justice or revenge, whatever she saw it. 

She has two great houses behind her and let’s not forget that she took him to the Vale so another great house will be supporting her. 

She was sure that Tyrion will prove guilty so she’ll not have to face any consequences after that, not even from Tywin.

[Hugorfonics]

5 minutes ago, Megorova said:

I think that it was an impulsive decision, and at that time Cat wasn't thinking at all. Sansa did inherited her stupidity from one of her parents. And even though Ned was a bit too naive, he wasn't stupid. Thus this part of her personality, Sansa got from her mother. Just look at Sansa, and think what kind of person could have given birth to, and raised someone like Sansa.

By the way, there's a good thread about Sansa's personality

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/150894-sansa-and-cognitive-dissonance/

I think that in Starks' family, Bran and Arya were Ned's children, while Robb and Sansa were their mother's prince and princess. Both of them had serious flaws of personality, both Robb and Sansa were stupid. And they got this trait from their mother.

So think about that matter like this - What was thinking Sansa's mother, when she did that utter stupidity? - answer - She wasn't thinking, she saw Tyrion, and she acted. And what kind of consequences those actions could have, and what damage could it cause to her family, wasn't on her mind at that moment.

Lol nah, Cats smart, Neds dumb. And Sansa and Robb are also smart. The only stupid Stark is Ned.

Any two bit police would arrest the suspect, the owner of said attempted murder wepon, after walking into their lap. Cats no police but she is Lady of Winterfell and spoke as Ned through Warden of the North (Ned tells Jaime he a-OKd it), it was well within Cats power to arrest Tyrion. It's also legal for her to seek justice from the Lady of the Vale. 

And the fact that Tyrions father is richer and more powerful than sin, makes the need for an arrest with no bail obvious

[Stormking902]

The whole lets give Cat credit due to being emotionally compromised is BS, me as a father if the same thing happened to my son and I was told that this person did it id still NEED proof I wouldn't just act on flimsy evidence at best especially when the consequences are so HIGH. 

 

Id at least have to think what is Tyrions motive for trying to have an 8 year old child murdered? As soon as Cat heard Tyrions defense she herself thought he was probably innocent. 

[Lollygag]

Just now, Stormking902 said:

The whole lets give Cat credit due to being emotionally compromised is BS, me as a father if the same thing happened to my son and I was told that this person did it id still NEED proof I wouldn't just act on flimsy evidence at best especially when the consequences are so HIGH. 

 

Id at least have to think what is Tyrions motive for trying to have an 8 year old child murdered? As soon as Cat heard Tyrions defense she herself thought he was probably innocent. 

You asked why she did it. That's why.

If you want an answer which you can relate to and agree with, that's a different question and I can't come up with a good answer there. Strong emotions do that to people sometimes.

[Hugorfonics]

3 minutes ago, Stormking902 said:

The whole lets give Cat credit due to being emotionally compromised is BS, me as a father if the same thing happened to my son and I was told that this person did it id still NEED proof I wouldn't just act on flimsy evidence at best especially when the consequences are so HIGH. 

 

Id at least have to think what is Tyrions motive for trying to have an 8 year old child murdered? As soon as Cat heard Tyrions defense she herself thought he was probably innocent. 

Yo, if Tyrion was guilty then Cat would watch him waddle his way out her life. As it is Cat went to and beyond her grave not knowing Joffrey sent the catspaw.

You want the beat case scenario? Tyrion rots in prison with the large windows untill him and Petyr appear before the king, when said daggger is described Robert will realize that's his dagger and Joffrey would be interrogated and incarcerated. 

If it weren't for Tyrions intelligence, Bronns sword and everything going on in Westeros itd work.

[The Commentator]

44 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

Catelyn has something to push the pain away: revenge.

Very much like Arya.  They go into revenge mode.  

I am not a fan of Catelyn, or Arya for that matter.  But I do not consider myself a Catelyn-hater.  I love The Order of the Greenhand (Dave and Mary Ellen) but I do not share their strong dislike for Catelyn.  Arresting Tyrion was the wrong decision.  As inept as Robert was, Catelyn owed it to him to give him a chance to deal with the problem.  But Catelyn was too focused on getting justice for her son and chose not to bring the matter to Robert.  In Catelyn's defense, as crazy as it seems to us, many people in her shoes would have done the same.  Brandon heard of his sister's kidnapping and threatened to kill not a dwarf but the son of his king.  Imagine the impudence of what Brandon did and what Cat did is no more than the equivalent of a discreet fart.  Tywin also chose to take violent action instead of asking Robert for help when he attacked the Riverlands.   The lives of their small folk hold little value to these nobles.  Their actions speak louder than their words.  They use up their people like we use up trees.  

 

[Guest]

Cat's decision was very frustrating to read. Her chapters are still interesting, but she should have tried doing something when it became apparent that Mord was going to beat Tyrion to death and her crazy sister would allow no fair trial, instead of waiting for Tyrion to get himself out of it.  

When people say that Tyrion's abduction started the War of Five Kings though, I disagree. I think there was a Ned chapter before this when it is revealed that Tywin is gathering fighting men to him for some unforeseen reason. There's also the matter of the Brave Companions, from Essos, being in the Riverlands by the time Tyrion arrives there with his mountain clansmen and Bronn. it would take some time for Tywin to get a messenger from the far side of Westeros across the narrow sea, and then for the Brave Companions to cross over. They must have been hired long before that. I have my theories about why and who really brought them over, but that's another story. 

[Angel Eyes]

4 minutes ago, Mooncalf said:

Cat's decision was very frustrating to read. Her chapters are still interesting, but she should have tried doing something when it became apparent that Mord was going to beat Tyrion to death and her crazy sister would allow no fair trial, instead of waiting for Tyrion to get himself out of it.  

When people say that Tyrion's abduction started the War of Five Kings though, I disagree. I think there was a Ned chapter before this when it is revealed that Tywin is gathering fighting men to him for some unforeseen reason. There's also the matter of the Brave Companions, from Essos, being in the Riverlands by the time Tyrion arrives there with his mountain clansmen and Bronn. it would take some time for Tywin to get a messenger from the far side of Westeros across the narrow sea, and then for the Brave Companions to cross over. They must have been hired long before that. I have my theories about why and who really brought them over, but that's another story. 

So maybe Tywin did cotton on to his twins’ incest?

[John Suburbs]

6 hours ago, Stormking902 said:

It was idiotic in the fullest and cost her family both Tullys and Starks everything including Robb and Neds life, I was just curious on the forums opinion on what was the bast case scenario in "Cats" opinion?. 

 

Why arrest Tyrion at all? Its not her place to do so for one and two wouldnt this matter be better suited for the KING who BTW is Neds best friend?. Couldnt she at least warned her father first instead of leaving them to deal with Tywins wrath?. 

I think most responses on this thread miss the point.

Car went through a lot of trouble hiding her presence in King's Landing, and even at the inn she tries to shield her face from Tyrion at first. The fact is, once Tyrion spotted her she could not let him return to KL with stories about how he encountered Lady Stark at the Trident. That would tip whomever killed JA, and whomever tried to kill Bran, that she was in KL sharing information with Ned, which would put Ned's life, and possibly her daughters', in jeopardy.

It is very likely that if Tyrion had not spied Catelyn, she would have simply let him go on his way.

[zandru]

52 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

Car went through a lot of trouble hiding her presence in King's Landing, and even at the inn she tries to shield her face from Tyrion at first. The fact is, once Tyrion spotted her she could not let him return to KL with stories about how he encountered Lady Stark at the Trident. That would tip whomever killed JA, and whomever tried to kill Bran, that she was in KL sharing information with Ned, which would put Ned's life, and possibly her daughters', in jeopardy.

It is very likely that if Tyrion had not spied Catelyn, she would have simply let him go on his way.

Bingo! The other rationales came into play, but the dominant motive was to keep her presence along the King's Road from getting back to the Iron Throne. Catelyn thought fast and took decisive, fairly sensible action. The further developments turned it into a tragedy.

[Kandrax]

7 hours ago, Megorova said:

the way, there's a good thread about Sansa's personality

That thread is worst example of cherry picking, also OP almost sugested that she should spread legs for Tyrion.

 

For OP.

Cat didn't plan to take Tyrion, initially. Only after Marillion recognised her, she takes him.

Now, i wonder what would happen if one of soldiers said to her:

"My lady this is man is son of Tywin L. It wouldn't be wise to arrest him.

[Kandrax]

3 hours ago, Mooncalf said:

have my theories about why and who really brought them over, but that's another story. 

My theory is that they were in Tywin's service since Balon's rebellion.

[Angel Eyes]

5 minutes ago, Kandrax said:

That thread is worst example of cherry picking, also OP almost sugested that she should spread legs for Tyrion.

 

For OP.

Cat didn't plan to take Tyrion, initially. Only after Marillion recognised her, she takes him.

Now, i wonder what would happen if one of soldiers said to her:

"My lady this is man is son of Tywin L. It wouldn't be wise to arrest him.

Well, what did Catelyn think was going to happen if she took Tyrion hostage? A hostage-taking was one of the events that led to the Rains of Castamere. Catelyn read history, right?

 

[Kandrax]

2 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Catelyn

In her defence her hostage wasn't son of her liege.

[Megorova]

4 minutes ago, Kandrax said:

also OP almost sugested that she should spread legs for Tyrion.

You imagined it, there was nothing like that.

4 minutes ago, Kandrax said:

That thread is worst example of cherry picking

There's indeed nothing good written about Sansa in OP of that thread, but there's absolutely nothing good in Sansa, so there's nothing to write. Oh, wait! There is one good quality that she has - she's pretty. Also that thread is analysis of Sansa's cognitive dissonance, and she does have it, so that's not even a hate thread, or anything of the sorts.

Which brings us back to OP of this thread. What kind of mother could have raised a daughter like Sansa? She's the kind of person that acts without thinking. She's driven by emotions. So she wasn't thinking much, when she kidnapped Tyrion. Furthermore she haven't thought clearly what should she do, even after the critical moment has passed. She took him to Lysa, as if though it wasn't enough, that she already endangered Starks and Tullys. But no, she wanted to have Full House, so she got Arryns involved too. The more - the merrier. And after that she did mistake after mistake. Agreeing to marry Robb, without his consent; letting go Jaime; going to Red Wedding, etc. In the first place, she went to negotiate with Walder, in Robb's place, because she claimed she knows him. Turned out, that she didn't. And her lack of judgment caused death of thousands people.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Justice for her son. And if she had held onto the twisted little demon monkey, House Stark would have had a valuable hostage in the inevitable war, but I don't think she thought the second part through. It was justice for Bran she wanted.