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what really caused the doom of valyria?

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Eruption of the volcanoes callled Fourteen Flames caused peninsula to shatter from mainland Essos. What caused eruption of volcanoes we don't know. Doom might be a natural catastrophe or might be magical event. Iirc there isn't a clear answer in the World Book.

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The best chain of events we have a hint of is as follows:

Some Lannister King spent a fortune of gold on buying a Valyrian sword from a Valyrian dragonlord family.

For some reason, despite there being thousands of Valyrian steel blades in Old Valyria, the sale of this one sword generated so much wealth that this Valyrian lord was able to use the Lannister gold to hire the Faceless Men to assassinate the sorcerers of some of his rival dragonlord families.

These sorcerers were apparently needed to constantly maintain some powerful blood magic spells that kept the volcanoes of the Fourteen Flames from erupting. After the Faceless Men assassinated a large enough number of these sorcerors, the spells collapsed and the volcanoes erupted. Valyria was destroyed as a result.

The above is the best case that can be made from evidence in the World Book, ancient Valyrian doomsday prophecies that referred to the gold of Casterly Rock bringing about their doom oneday, and from the comments the Kindly Old man made to Arya, about the Faceless men having a hand in the Doom of Valyria.

The biggest flaw for me, is why the sale of one Valyrian sword to the Lannisters could make such a difference, given that thousands of Valyrian blades were sold all over the world before that point. So the amount of money paid for a single sword should not have changed the balance of power between the dragonlord families to such an extent.

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4 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

The biggest flaw for me, is why the sale of one Valyrian sword to the Lannisters could make such a difference, given that thousands of Valyrian blades were sold all over the world before that point. So the amount of money paid for a single sword should not have changed the balance of power between the dragonlord families to such an extent.

I’be wondered about this. One possible explanation is that assasinating the one sorcerer caused a slight problem with the Fourteen Flames, but not the full eruption. This having been the first time one such individual was killed, the Faceless Men then deduced what would happen if they killed more, which they then did of their own accord.

It’s not perfect, but it does close the hole (or at least tightens it).

Edited by The Mountain That Flies

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4 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

The best chain of events we have a hint of is as follows:

Some Lannister King spent a fortune of gold on buying a Valyrian sword from a Valyrian dragonlord family.

For some reason, despite there being thousands of Valyrian steel blades in Old Valyria, the sale of this one sword generated so much wealth that this Valyrian lord was able to use the Lannister gold to hire the Faceless Men to assassinate the sorcerers of some of his rival dragonlord families.

These sorcerers were apparently needed to constantly maintain some powerful blood magic spells that kept the volcanoes of the Fourteen Flames from erupting. After the Faceless Men assassinated a large enough number of these sorcerors, the spells collapsed and the volcanoes erupted. Valyria was destroyed as a result.

The above is the best case that can be made from evidence in the World Book, ancient Valyrian doomsday prophecies that referred to the gold of Casterly Rock bringing about their doom oneday, and from the comments the Kindly Old man made to Arya, about the Faceless men having a hand in the Doom of Valyria.

The biggest flaw for me, is why the sale of one Valyrian sword to the Lannisters could make such a difference, given that thousands of Valyrian blades were sold all over the world before that point. So the amount of money paid for a single sword should not have changed the balance of power between the dragonlord families to such an extent.

The details are missing, so we're free to make up our own stories.

So: unbeknownst to all and sundry the sword that is to be named Brightroar is the One Sword that controls the volcanoes, or is at least a key in that process. Lannister gold removes the One Sword and poof, there goes the Valyrian Freehold.

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10 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

The best chain of events we have a hint of is as follows:

Some Lannister King spent a fortune of gold on buying a Valyrian sword from a Valyrian dragonlord family.

For some reason, despite there being thousands of Valyrian steel blades in Old Valyria, the sale of this one sword generated so much wealth that this Valyrian lord was able to use the Lannister gold to hire the Faceless Men to assassinate the sorcerers of some of his rival dragonlord families.

These sorcerers were apparently needed to constantly maintain some powerful blood magic spells that kept the volcanoes of the Fourteen Flames from erupting. After the Faceless Men assassinated a large enough number of these sorcerors, the spells collapsed and the volcanoes erupted. Valyria was destroyed as a result.

The above is the best case that can be made from evidence in the World Book, ancient Valyrian doomsday prophecies that referred to the gold of Casterly Rock bringing about their doom oneday, and from the comments the Kindly Old man made to Arya, about the Faceless men having a hand in the Doom of Valyria.

The biggest flaw for me, is why the sale of one Valyrian sword to the Lannisters could make such a difference, given that thousands of Valyrian blades were sold all over the world before that point. So the amount of money paid for a single sword should not have changed the balance of power between the dragonlord families to such an extent.

this is all wrong. The targs are the last of old Valyria. The last targ king had a lord of the rock as his hand. it was Tywin lannister and his gigantic gold balls that let him cross is former king and sack the capital he once ruled from that ended up  being the real doom 

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6 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

this is all wrong. The targs are the last of old Valyria. The last targ king had a lord of the rock as his hand. it was Tywin lannister and his gigantic gold balls that let him cross is former king and sack the capital he once ruled from that ended up  being the real doom 

Except, there's a Targaryen Queen, with 3 Dragons, in Essos. There's at least 1 secret Targaryen at the edge of the world. There are pockets of Valyrian blood all over Essos and even some houses of Westeros. Tywin and Jaime betraying Aerys didn't doom the Valyrians... it ended Targ rule (for a time?) but didn't eliminate every root and branch from the Valyrian tree.

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21 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

The best chain of events we have a hint of is as follows:

Some Lannister King spent a fortune of gold on buying a Valyrian sword from a Valyrian dragonlord family.

For some reason, despite there being thousands of Valyrian steel blades in Old Valyria, the sale of this one sword generated so much wealth that this Valyrian lord was able to use the Lannister gold to hire the Faceless Men to assassinate the sorcerers of some of his rival dragonlord families.

These sorcerers were apparently needed to constantly maintain some powerful blood magic spells that kept the volcanoes of the Fourteen Flames from erupting. After the Faceless Men assassinated a large enough number of these sorcerors, the spells collapsed and the volcanoes erupted. Valyria was destroyed as a result.

The above is the best case that can be made from evidence in the World Book, ancient Valyrian doomsday prophecies that referred to the gold of Casterly Rock bringing about their doom oneday, and from the comments the Kindly Old man made to Arya, about the Faceless men having a hand in the Doom of Valyria.

The biggest flaw for me, is why the sale of one Valyrian sword to the Lannisters could make such a difference, given that thousands of Valyrian blades were sold all over the world before that point. So the amount of money paid for a single sword should not have changed the balance of power between the dragonlord families to such an extent.

There's probably a lot of truth to this, but I still suspect there was an even grander conspiracy to take out the super-weapon-wielding civilization that would have eventually brought the entire world to heel. I think by the end we'll see that the FM were working with the Citadel, the CotF, the shadowbinders and mages all to bring down Valyria. It's the Game of Thrones that has been playing out for eons while mere men have been jockeying for control of their petty kingdoms.

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7 hours ago, Unacosamedarisa said:

Except, there's a Targaryen Queen, with 3 Dragons, in Essos. There's at least 1 secret Targaryen at the edge of the world. There are pockets of Valyrian blood all over Essos and even some houses of Westeros. Tywin and Jaime betraying Aerys didn't doom the Valyrians... it ended Targ rule (for a time?) but didn't eliminate every root and branch from the Valyrian tree.

oh sweet summer child. spend some more time here. You will learn that everyone who claims to be a targ is not and everyone else is a secret targ. 

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I read it as the sale of the sword being part of a larger discourse of internal fighting among the aristocracy. Which was tipped in favor of the family who sold it. Which in turn resulted in the failure of the sorcerers. It was also ambiguous and vague. The doom is mentioned many times throughout the books. There may be more info hidden by George in or around those instances. You should check every instance for clues and report back. :-)

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On 4/28/2018 at 10:51 PM, manchester_babe said:

what really caused the doom of valyria? 

i've been reading the world of ice and fire and i'm wondering what caused it. 

At this point you will only find wild speculation from everyone. There's an overall hint in AWOIAF and the novels that the Doom is magic related (similar to whatever caused the breaking of Dorne and Hardholme). Even the maesters in AWOIAF are humble enough to admit they don't know. We will have to wait until GRRM discloses this storyline, if he would ever decide to do so directly. 

As the saying goes, "no one knows what caused the Doom." The closest to the truth you will get is from the story FM tell Arya. 

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On 4/29/2018 at 0:03 AM, Free Northman Reborn said:

For some reason, despite there being thousands of Valyrian steel blades in Old Valyria, the sale of this one sword generated so much wealth that this Valyrian lord was able to use the Lannister gold to hire the Faceless Men to assassinate the sorcerers of some of his rival dragonlord families.

Hahaha I hope you are being sarcastic because you do know the FM didn't exist back then?

On 4/29/2018 at 0:03 AM, Free Northman Reborn said:

The above is the best case that can be made from evidence in the World Book, ancient Valyrian doomsday prophecies that referred to the gold of Casterly Rock bringing about their doom oneday,

This refers to Robert's Rebellion, I think. The Lannisters joined up with Bob, backing him with their enormous wealth. The result is the evisceration of the last dragon-riding family from Valyria. We can safely say that the Lannisters at the time didn't have a motivation to bring about the Doom or even meddle with Valyrian politics. We still don't know exactly what sparked the Rebellion, as in what led to Robert and Brandon Stark believing Rhaegar had Lyanna kidnapped. Lannister gold may have played a part in paying someone to spread rumors. We know Tywin had major beef with Aerys, even though he may not have intended Rhaegar to die at least initially. 

The FM didn't exist back when Valyrians were powerful. As the Kindly Man tells Arya, the first FM was a slave in the Valyrian mines who begins to worship their god of death. The FM becomes famous as assassins after the Doom, not before.  They only become free because of the Doom. 

The idea that the Fourteen Flames were controlled by mages who were later assassinated leading to the Doom is only speculation by the maesters.  The reality may not be as neat. The Valyrians lived among these Fourteen Flames since forever, even before they had dragons. I highly doubt there were mages back then. 

Remember that the Doom has cursed the entire peninsula. No one can travel to the region and come back alive or sane. So far, only Euron claims to have traveled there. If that is true, the journey may have driven him mad. A catastrophe like this would not be just a natural thing, or a natural result of volcanoes erupting after spells fail, because the whole place is now accursed.  

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56 minutes ago, Ghost+Nymeria4Eva said:

Hahaha I hope you are being sarcastic because you do know the FM didn't exist back then?

(...)

The FM didn't exist back when Valyrians were powerful. As the Kindly Man tells Arya, the first FM was a slave in the Valyrian mines who begins to worship their god of death. The FM becomes famous as assassins after the Doom, not before.  They only become free because of the Doom. 

(...)

Quote

The first Faceless Man later brought the gift to the Valyrian masters as well.[5] Some scholars believe that the cause of the Doom of Valyria was too many assassinations of the mages who maintained the spells controlling the Fourteen Flames.[10]

Well...

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I was always pretty sure the Doom of Valyria was in some way connected to the fact that at some point they decided it was a good idea to build an empire among fourteen active volcanoes. :P 

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On 5/2/2018 at 0:29 AM, Deepbollywood Motte said:

The first Faceless Man later brought the gift to the Valyrian masters as well.[5] Some scholars believe that the cause of the Doom of Valyria was too many assassinations of the mages who maintained the spells controlling the Fourteen Flames.[10]

That is speculation by some scholars. They assume that someone hired FM to kill mages who may or may not have existed. But back then the FM as a group of assassins the world knows now did not exist. As in, people from around the world didn't pay them to take out rivals and enemies. But we do know that the FM originated in the slave mines of Valyria. And they did play a role in bringing forth the Doom. The first FM may have killed slave masters and donned their visage. But that still leaves the big question of how the peninsula got scattered into pieces in the most unnatural fashion. And why no one can go back to assess the damage. 

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On ‎4‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 12:35 PM, Dorian Martell's son said:

oh sweet summer child. spend some more time here. You will learn that everyone who claims to be a targ is not and everyone else is a secret targ. 

:rofl:Too good!

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On 4/28/2018 at 2:33 PM, Free Northman Reborn said:

The best chain of events we have a hint of is as follows:

Some Lannister King spent a fortune of gold on buying a Valyrian sword from a Valyrian dragonlord family.

For some reason, despite there being thousands of Valyrian steel blades in Old Valyria, the sale of this one sword generated so much wealth that this Valyrian lord was able to use the Lannister gold to hire the Faceless Men to assassinate the sorcerers of some of his rival dragonlord families.

These sorcerers were apparently needed to constantly maintain some powerful blood magic spells that kept the volcanoes of the Fourteen Flames from erupting. After the Faceless Men assassinated a large enough number of these sorcerors, the spells collapsed and the volcanoes erupted. Valyria was destroyed as a result.

The above is the best case that can be made from evidence in the World Book, ancient Valyrian doomsday prophecies that referred to the gold of Casterly Rock bringing about their doom oneday, and from the comments the Kindly Old man made to Arya, about the Faceless men having a hand in the Doom of Valyria.

The biggest flaw for me, is why the sale of one Valyrian sword to the Lannisters could make such a difference, given that thousands of Valyrian blades were sold all over the world before that point. So the amount of money paid for a single sword should not have changed the balance of power between the dragonlord families to such an extent.

Gods damned Lannisters. 

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3 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Gods damned Lannisters. 

If you meant "God damned Lannisters", then well, they did end a really nasty slavery regime guilty of horrendous human rights abuses which is saying a lot given how violent that world is. Unfortunately, they did not end the slaving legacy.

If you meant "Gods damned Lannisters", then yeah, I suspect that the Lannisters are paying a price for that gold. Shoulda looked that gift horse in the mouth.

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