Fat Walda's Future

[Lost Melnibonean]

On 4/29/2018 at 3:43 PM, Light a wight tonight said:

She's in a bad position because Roose has said that a child Lord can be a disaster. The reason Roose tolerates Ramsay is that he has no real alternative at this point, though he's shown that he despises Ramsay. He'd more than likely not do anything to Ramsay if harm were to come to a son by Fat Walda. Her main personal protection is that Roose likes her and would get upset if Ramsay harmed her, but that wouldn't extend to an heir. 

Maybe she has some of that drug that has dogs turn on their masters, the one Jaqen used on Weese's dog.

Basilisk blood... maybe one of those three maesters has a drop or three. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

On 4/29/2018 at 4:18 PM, Kandrax said:

Personally, i don't think that Ramsay would be serious threat to her, he would be dead after Stannis takes Winterfell, unless he escape from justice.

Now, real question is what would Stannis do about her? Spare her, but reduce to common woman? Send her to silent sisters? Kill her to please northmen?

Why kill her? Did she play a part in the Red Wedding? 

[Lost Melnibonean]

On 4/29/2018 at 5:42 PM, Dorian Martell's son said:

some freys are keen observers. Others, like Merritt are drunken sobs who can't even get drunk properly when needed. Since Walda is the latter's son, and the apple does not fall far from the tree, I can't imagine that she is anything other than a fat girl who was married off for her weight in silver to the lord paramount of the north 

She wiggles and squeals in bed... that's gotta be worth something? 

[Lost Melnibonean]

15 hours ago, Mat92 said:

I don't think she really has any options at this stage. She's probably a lot safer in her current situation, with a tonne of Freys occupying Winterfell. But Ramsey is definitely smart enough to know that as soon as any kids are born, he's out. 

So I imagine he'll kill her at some point before the books end, or at the very least she'll die from some other cause. Freys in the North can't be the end goal for this story.

Wasn't he was legitimized and recognized as the heir to the Dreadfort? Though I could see a son of Fat Walda backed by the Twins making a claim, which is why Ramsay should keep them very close. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

14 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

I foresee a lot of squealing for her.

I swear The George drew inspiration for Fat Walda from two AC/DC songs... Squealer and Whole Lotta Rosie. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

9 hours ago, The Sunland Lord said:

Why do you presume that Stannis will take Winterfell?

Anyways, if he does, I don't see him killing her. Unless she has a baby. Then the pressure from Northern people will be to execute her along with the traitor's baby in her belly.

Even the baby? 

[Nowy Tends]

21 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Why kill her? Did she play a part in the Red Wedding? 

Stannis doesn't care to avenge the RW. What happens to Ladys when a castle is assaulted and taken? They're either killed (like Elia) or jailed until a ransom is paid by the family, or forced to marry in the kin of the new Lord…

[Lost Melnibonean]

1 minute ago, Nowy Tends said:

Stannis doesn't care to avenge the RW. What happens to Ladys when a castle is assaulted and taken? They're either killed (like Elia) or jailed until a ransom is paid by the family…

I could certainly see her held hostage against House Frey. 

[Castellan]

2 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I could certainly see her held hostage against House Frey. 

Walder doesn't seem to care that much though. He has plenty offspring to spare. And once he's dead its going to be every heir for himself so probably only her immediate family members would want to chip in.

I can't help thinking Ramsay would kill her as soon as he knew Winterfell would fall. Also he seems like the person most likely to escape a fallen castle.

When I say kill her I mean the baby in her is the most important thing for him to kill.

[The Sunland Lord]

5 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Even the baby? 

You know what Stannis would've done to Daenerys and Viserys if he managed to capture them on Dragonstone. 

[Stormking902]

2 hours ago, The Sunland Lord said:

You know what Stannis would've done to Daenerys and Viserys if he managed to capture them on Dragonstone. 

Milk and cookies ? 

[The Sunland Lord]

5 minutes ago, Stormking902 said:

Milk and cookies ? 

You got it right.

[Lost Melnibonean]

3 hours ago, The Sunland Lord said:

You know what Stannis would've done to Daenerys and Viserys if he managed to capture them on Dragonstone. 

No, I don't know that...

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

4 hours ago, The Sunland Lord said:

You know what Stannis would've done to Daenerys and Viserys if he managed to capture them on Dragonstone. 

No we don't know, Tywin ordered the killings of Aegon & Rhaenys. Robert may or may not have ordered Stannis to kill Viserys, Rhaella & Dany too but we don't actually know. If he was politically intelligent he would have exiled Viserys with a guard and supported him to live in Essos, married Rhaella to Tywin, &  Betrothed Dany to his own first born son.  That way he shows he is a merciful man, as the killings of Elia and her children were widely seen as abhorrent, this way he washes those deaths off his hands by showing mercy to Rhaella & her children. He has Rhaella under his thumb as she is wedded to his own Good father, he can keep a close eye on Viserys, and influence how he grows up; who he becomes. And has Dany as a tool to legitimise his own line further and prevent Viserys from rebelling as an adult. He'd be forced to make an enemy of his sister and mother if he did make a claim on the IT. And might even be forced into being a Kinslayer is Dany had produced a baby by her Baratheon husband at any stage.

If Rhaella had been labouring without a battle going on she may well have lived. We don't know what killed her or how her labour might have gone had she not been in such a stressful situation. And besides which when Robert gave whatever instructions he did to Stannis pre attacking DS he would have been assuming her survival and whilst he didn't know the sex of her baby the possibility of a very useful female baby can't have escaped any intelligent advisers who he had. Not to mention Tywin's personal battle with Aerys' I can't help but see him relishing the idea of taking Rhaella to wife as vengeance for all the slights and possibly Joanna's infidelity with Aerys. 

Had a son been born he too could simply be exiled with a team of westerosi's to raise him and Viserys to accept their fate and Rhaella is a hostage in all but name who may then go on to birth a child by Tywin to be tied to the Baratheon claim via marriage to Roberts & Cersei's sons. We know avuncular marriage is acceptable in world because we see the Starks did it. And Asha thinks her Uncle is suggesting it, as well as Alys Karstark being almost made to marry her uncle. So a half aunt to a half nephew with Targaryen blood on both sides should not be problematic. 

Robert would be an idiot to simply order their killings. And whilst he was an idiot, we know his advisers were not. 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

19 hours ago, The Sunland Lord said:

Why do you presume that Stannis will take Winterfell?

Anyways, if he does, I don't see him killing her. Unless she has a baby. Then the pressure from Northern people will be to execute her along with the traitor's baby in her belly.

I think we presume Stannis will take WF because it seems the most likely outcome. WF needs to be removed from the Boltons hands in order for the story to progress, Stannis has been presented to us as a good battle commander, and he has shown he's making sound tactical choices. Positioning the field of battle to lure the enemy onto the rotten ice lake. He's aware of the Karstark's deceit,  The Manderly forces are likely to turn on the Boltons & Freys. These things point towards a win by Stannis. Mance was in the hall and so may have killed Roose already in the chaos caused by the call to leave WF to engage in battle. Making Ramsey vulnerable.

If Stannis defeats the Bolton-Frey forces and takes WF he will be faced with a pregnant Walda Bolton. And Ramsey, the latter is easily dealt with he gets executed. Walda I doubt he would execute women are not executed in these situations. They are valuable pawns.  She can be ransomed, or she can be remarried to a loyal banner man. Her child when it is born can be either married to someone to legitimise the taking of the dreadfort into another houses hands. Or can be raised to become Lord Bolton and keep the house going; which is something most westerosi are invested in.

Even when House Stark is atainted the intention is to have Sansa marry into loyal bloodlines and produce an heir to rule WF. Now would Tyrion's child by her be a Stark or a Lannister? That is another question. But we see that when Lancell Lannister is gifted Darry hedoes so on the basis of his Frey wifes Darry blood and it becomes known as House Lannister of Darry. so who knows what the egocentric Lannisters would have done in Sansa's childs case.

But we are talking about Stannis and not Tywin here. So I think it plausible that he'd allow the male child to be Lord Bolton and a female childs husband to take the Title of Lord Bolton. As this seems to have been the case historically when the same situations have occurred.   Baels son became Lord Stark after all. 

Walda won't be in any great peril if Stannis wins. She has more to fear from a Bolton-Frey win if Roose is in fact dead. 

There is also foreshadowing that Stannis will win but die of his wounds in TSoTD. When GRRM writes that Orys Baratheon defeated his enemy but succumbed to his wounds dying happy according to his son Davos looking at the hands and feet of his enemy Walter Wyl dangling in the tent like a string of onions. 

Now I've been saying for a few years now that he will win but die of his wounds so when I read TSoTD this bit flashed up for me. Baratheon, check, reference to Stannis via Davos and the onions check, Walter= reference to Walder Frey eg: Frey forces at the battle of Ice. Wins but dies of his wounds. Ding ding ding!!! It's not a clear line between the two but it has all the hallmarks of GRRM's style. He loves to tell us what will happen in a roundabout way via symbolism, and general thematic references. There are several occurrences of this in the books. 

[Moiraine Sedai]

On 4/29/2018 at 2:40 PM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

Roose Bolton believes his future sons with Walda will be murdered by Ramsay.  Walda is far from stupid.  The Freys are keen observers and they know how to play games.  It won't take long for this woman to figure what kind of a man his stepson is.  What can Lady Bolton do to keep her future sons (assuming she will have one or two, because the Freys are fertile) safe from Ramsay?  What are her best (but realistic) options?

I like Fat Walda.  It would not upset me to have her son with Roose inherit the north.

She can kill Ramsay.  It's the only way to keep a son safe.  

[UnFit Finlay]

5 hours ago, The Sunland Lord said:

You know what Stannis would've done to Daenerys and Viserys if he managed to capture them on Dragonstone. 

What?

Are you suggesting that Stannis - the guy who has a ridiculous sense of justice - would execute children? Including a new born baby?

That's not my read on the character in the slightest.

20 hours ago, The Sunland Lord said:

Anyways, if he does, I don't see him killing her. Unless she has a baby. Then the pressure from Northern people will be to execute her along with the traitor's baby in her belly.

Again I don't see the Northerners openly calling for the execution of an innocent child.

Frankly, if they had that sort of attitude then House Bolton would've been extinct centuries before.

[Corvo the Crow]

6 hours ago, The Sunland Lord said:

You know what Stannis would've done to Daenerys and Viserys if he managed to capture them on Dragonstone. 

Take them as wards, defend them against Robert. We know Stan and Bob didn't get along well and Stan already had a hard time deciding whether his duty to his brother outweighs his duty for his king. Seeing how Robert is fine with the events of the Red Keep, he wouldn't allow anything happen to Dany and Visy. This is the guy who took and nursed a wounded wild bird, he isn't going to let children, who are also his distant cousins, get murdered all of a sudden.

[The Sunland Lord]

@The Weirwoods Eyes, @UnFit Finlay, @Corvo the Crow

Yes, the man who would've gave his nephew Edric Storm to the flames, would not have a problem to annihilate the Targ or Bolton little ones.  

[The Commentator]

22 hours ago, Nowy Tends said:

How would you know that?

The letter had a lot of information that someone like Ramsay can torture out of the wildling girls and Mance.  The author knew about Jon's plot to take f-Arya away from Ramsay, Jon letting Mance walk away from his crimes against the kingdom, the "magic sword", Mellisandre, Reek, etc.  Even Jon knows there are truths in that letter.  Stannis is more likely dead, than not.