Jump to content
.H.

Bakker LIV - Soul Sphincter

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

ok, this is big, I found the real ancient dunyain :P I haven't found anything on google relating dunyain and epicurus.. I was reading the italian wikipedia page about a lost latin work (~100B.C.) rediscovered in the middle ages.. I just went there by pure chance (link from Poggio Bracciolini only cause some friends kept mentioning him for a gag they made on high school and I had no idea who he was), the english version doesn't use these words.. Google translated it pretty well tho.

"it is a reference to personal responsibility and an incitement to mankind to become aware of reality, in which men from birth are victims of passions that they can not understand. The main source of the Lucrezian epos, in fact, is the Περὶ φύσεως of Epicurus. The author assumes the task of providing men with the tools to eliminate fears and to attain the ataraxia, or the absence of disturbance of the wise, the only one capable of achieving a rational victory over feelings."

 

I know I know really little about philosophy but this sounds awfully specific!! this guy wanted to be a dunyain!!

 

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_rerum_natura

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_rerum_natura

Edited by Drorian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I would also point out these strong similarities:

Lucretius was himself a theist, and in his work he does not deny the existence of deities;[24][25] he simply argues that they did not create the universe, that they do not care about human affairs, and that they do not intervene in the world.

Lucretius maintained that he could free humankind from fear of the deities by demonstrating that all things occur by natural causes without any intervention by the deities.

from the italian one:

Lucretius encourages his friend to study the true rationality and promises to talk about the essence of reality as a whole and to reveal the origin of things. Then follows the eulogy of Epicurus, presented as the true master, superior to other men. He has the great merit of having freed humanity from the religious fear that comes from the belief in the possibility of a punishment of the soul after death and in a divine intervention in the events of the world. With his rational investigation of nature, he has shown that gods exist in "intermundia" (~between-worlds, the outside??), but have no interest in human affairs.  (is that you, Kellhus?)

To make his message more comprehensible,he uses the metaphor of the walls: these are nothing more than the concrete form of ignorance. Just the ignorant, along with the superstitious and the ones who love (actually who fell in love), are called "miserable", because they do not know the recta ratio.

In the relations with the body, the mind has supremacy on the soul: in fact, life subsists until the mind is whole, even if the organism is deprived of some of its limbs and of a large part of the soul. (this recalls something about the sranc and the tekne creations)

also from epicureanism wiki:

Epicurus believed that what he called "pleasure" (ἡδονή) was the greatest good, but that the way to attain such pleasure was to live modestly, to gain knowledge of the workings of the world, and to limit one's desires (definitely dunyain). This would lead one to attain a state of tranquility (ataraxia) (grasping the absolute) and freedom from fear as well as an absence of bodily pain (aponia) (those are dunyain prerogatives too). The combination of these two states constitutes happiness in its highest form.

 

 

Edited by Drorian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

We asked bakker about connections to Greek and other ancient terminology and his answer was “meh I liked the sound of the werds and don’t really remember where the werds came from” so you’re putting in way more work than the author did. The pattern recognition circuits in your brain have been deliberately short circuited to do what you are doing, because the author is a troll and thinks it’s funny to treat you like that, but there is no there there, no matter how much “there” you find there.

Edited by lokisnow

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, lokisnow said:

We asked bakker about connections to Greek and other ancient terminology and his answer was “meh I liked the sound of the werds and don’t really remember where the werds came from” so you’re putting in way more work than the author did. The pattern recognition circuits in your brain have been deliberately short circuited to do what you are doing, because the author is a troll and thinks it’s funny to treat you like that, but there is no there there, no matter how much “there” you find there.

:agree:

Bolded part is what we should replace the layers of revelation crap with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And if the writer did not reference it then it is not of the shortest path

 

Or, u know, we could arc a little

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, lokisnow said:

We asked bakker about connections to Greek and other ancient terminology and his answer was “meh I liked the sound of the werds and don’t really remember where the werds came from” so you’re putting in way more work than the author did. The pattern recognition circuits in your brain have been deliberately short circuited to do what you are doing, because the author is a troll and thinks it’s funny to treat you like that, but there is no there there, no matter how much “there” you find there.

well, I certainly expected any argument to be stale and everything possible to say about the work being already told in all these posts about the second apocalypse but why keep postin about it then? :P

anyway I didn't simply recognize patterns but the same exact concepts and even words used in the book, I didn't need much, I simply read the wiki, not the original work :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

anyway the sense of hopelessness that unites many of your posts is just the no god's manifestation, or what the author wanted :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Darth Richard II said:

He wanted us all to think he was a giant troll and Asshat?

Your contributions to this thread are frequently low effort.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/17/2018 at 7:20 PM, Callan S. said:

Actually it draws an interesting link - anarcane ground is where the gods have walked the earth and so dream lucidly, not allowing the semantic cracks that sorcerers use to invoke/provoke effects in less lucidly dreamed locations.

And Mimara contacted with something, some kind of divine being, through a chorae.

Do chorae in some way summon gods? They are called tears of god, as well.

I think, in general, they function more as 'word of God', collapsing the sorcerous interpretation of the Real into its canonical form.  But Mimara's use of one of them to remove the risen creature in the tunnel, through invocation of her Judging Eye, is very interesting to that notion.

If the chorae 'fix' the world to its most prosaic level, as defined by the God's speech, rather than Sorcerer's blasphemy, then did the God looking through Mimara's eyes onto its own chorae allow it to actively meddle?  That is, to remove the Ciphrang despite it bringing its Hellish frame along?  If so...is the God conscious?  I've been thinking that it was more abstraction than anything else, but if it is intervening...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, redjako said:

Your contributions to this thread are frequently low effort.

Hey, I put as much effort into this thread as Bakker did into his books.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I heard that he was actually pressured to get things done quickly. If this is true, then it would explain a lot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Dora Vee said:

I heard that he was actually pressured to get things done quickly. If this is true, then it would explain a lot.

Ha, wait, what? Is that sarcasm, or, did I miss some news?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lucretius was one of the first materialist philosophers, drawing ideas from Epicurus but also Democritus and his atomism. His famous cure for unrequited love was "F**k some other girls until you forget the first one", a purely mechanistic view where biology rules all and feelings, ideas etc. are just hiding that fact. I think you can definitely see some Dunyainism in there and, given Bakker's interests in philosophy, it shouldn't come as a big surprise that he's done his homework.

I don't know though if that can explain some of the mysteries in the books. I think Earwa's metaphysics are clear to Bakker and much less so to us readers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

He wanted us all to think he was a giant troll and Asshat?

To be fair, if he were a total troll, he’d have made cnaiur only gay because moenghus made him that way, ya know, like conservatives believe all the gay secks works and he would have had cnaiur pray the gay away.

 

on the other hand, that was probably in the original draft and his editor made him take it out, “fine, fine, fine stop crying about your art. How about this, you can keep all women as sextoy  whores, but take out the bits that nonwhites are inferior and that homosexuality is choice. Is that a fair deal, work with me buddy, ya got to compromise some!”

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’ve been wondering lately about George Lucas revelations of his vision of episodes seven-nine in bakker terms. Lucas wanted to reveal that the Force was controlled by the malevolent bacteria the Whills who use other sentient beings as hosts and  that all the predestination chosen one light side dark side Jedi sith fantasy religion mumbo jumbo was all a delusion/illusion manifested by the science fiction explanation of malevolent bacteria manipulating society for their own selfish ends. So the final three movies would have gone fantastic planet moving the battle to a microscopic universe.

 

its both a terrible idea and an amazing idea and is really committed to utterly sabotaging the audience by disenchanting the world they believe so profoundly in. Very bakker like, in a way,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

Ha, wait, what? Is that sarcasm, or, did I miss some news? 

I found it here: https://www.reddit.com/r/bakker/comments/8rr62z/spoilersfinished_listening_to_the_thousandfold/e0tv5p5/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/19/2018 at 11:18 AM, Darth Richard II said:

Hey, I put as much effort into this thread as Bakker did into his books.

Ok, that made me chuckle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×