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Angel Eyes

Ashara and Ned match

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Say if Ned had wanted to marry Ashara before Lyanna was abducted by Rhaegar, would his father allow it? Or is a Dornish lady beneath a Lord Paramount's second son?

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21 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Say if Ned had wanted to marry Ashara before Lyanna was abducted by Rhaegar, would his father allow it? Or is a Dornish lady beneath a Lord Paramount's second son?

Look at the Stark family tree and you'll see they haven't married to any LP houses until Cat, but there are plenty of marriages to powerful and prestigious First Men houses, most of them even former kings, and the Daynes are just that, a powerful and prestigious First Men house who were kings once.

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29 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Say if Ned had wanted to marry Ashara before Lyanna was abducted by Rhaegar, would his father allow it? Or is a Dornish lady beneath a Lord Paramount's second son?

Southron ambitions were his thing so binding the ancient house dayne to the ancient house stark would make sense. Ned was the second son, so there would be no issue with the daynes being a relatively unimportant house 

 

Edited by Dorian Martell's son
spite

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Status-wise it would be an OK match, but politically it makes little sense. Starfall is clear on the opposite side of the continent, so there is little chance they could assist one another militarily or trade-wise. If not a northern vassal house, Ned probably would have gotten a Royce, possibly a Blackwood.

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It is also worth remembering that Ashara Dayne was lady-in-waiting to Elia Martell, future queen, and her brother is a member of the Kingsguard, back when it was respected.  She is quite well-connected.  Given Rickard's Southron Ambitions, he would probably be quite happy with the match.   I doubt he would have serious objections to it.

 

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3 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

Say if Ned had wanted to marry Ashara before Lyanna was abducted by Rhaegar, would his father allow it? Or is a Dornish lady beneath a Lord Paramount's second son?

The Daynes are a well-respected house and Ned is only the second son of the paramount lord of a relatively poor region.  You might want to change the question to "Or is the long-faced second son of the lord paramount of a poor area beneath the beautiful daughter of House Dayne?"

You are holding the Starks in too high of esteem.  

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51 minutes ago, 300 H&H Magnum said:

The Daynes are a well-respected house

Respected by who? The greatest achievement of House Dayne is the presence of Arthur, the most famous knight, in the King's Guard. Other than that it's a very small House lost in a quasi no man's land; we don't even know the name of Edric's father, they have zero politic influence, no wealth, no one gives a shit about them.

A King's Guard that dies stupidly for a lost cause, a beautiful lady who commits suicide, and a 10 year lord who enlists with the BWB, wow, I'm impressed! I don't know if they "bring the dawn" but they sure live in obscurity.

And you compare them to the Stark, a House that can raise an army of thousands under their orders, when the Dayne have ZERO vassal House? You must have read a different book.

Edited by Nowy Tends

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1 hour ago, Nowy Tends said:

Respected by who? The greatest achievement of House Dayne is the presence of Arthur, the most famous knight, in the King's Guard. Other than that it's a very small House lost in a quasi no man's land; we don't even know the name of Edric's father, they have zero politic influence, no wealth, no one gives a shit about them.

A King's Guard that dies stupidly for a lost cause, a beautiful lady who commits suicide, and a 10 year lord who enlists with the BWB, wow, I'm impressed! I don't know if they "bring the dawn" but they sure live in obscurity.

And you compare them to the Stark, a House that can raise an army of thousands under their orders, when the Dayne have ZERO vassal House? You must have read a different book.

I was thinking more of before the series, before Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna.

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I would think that Rickard would want to repair Moat Cailin at some point and maybe make Eddard it's lord. Then Rickard would need to marry Ned to a rich House that would give him a big dowry to help finance rebuilding Moat Cailin. Perhaps a Manderly, Frey or a Lannister cousin. 

Despite being a lady in waiting for Elia and one of the most beautiful women in Westeros at the time, we haven't heard about any of Ashara's marriage prospects. So it's hard to tell what her parents or guardians were looking for in regards of a marriage match. Perhaps they were holding out for Oberyn Martell.

Edited by Ralphis Baratheon

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10 hours ago, 300 H&H Magnum said:

The Daynes are a well-respected house and Ned is only the second son of the paramount lord of a relatively poor region.  You might want to change the question to "Or is the long-faced second son of the lord paramount of a poor area beneath the beautiful daughter of House Dayne?"

You are holding the Starks in too high of esteem.  

I think you are holding Daynes too high of esteem because @Nowy Tends is right. Daynes are praised beacuse, from time to time they produced finest knights called Swords of the Morning. Daynes are respected as courtesy rather than they are respected beacuse of they are powerful. They are still a vassal house. They don't have much manpower, wealth or political influence. People hyped up about Daynes because of GRRM's statement on not revealing their words because it contains spoilers but they are mixing being strong with being important.

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Assuming Ashara also likes Ned, We don't know Rickard personality, if he thinks about the happiness of his son and not ambition think he will agree since Ned is only a spare and Brandon's about to marry Cat, but politically, it's not wise since you're marrying the 3rd in line in the North to a vassal house in the south.

I believe the Daynes will approve of the match as well since Starks are one of the Great house.
 

On 5/1/2018 at 4:34 AM, John Suburbs said:

Status-wise it would be an OK match, but politically it makes little sense. Starfall is clear on the opposite side of the continent, so there is little chance they could assist one another militarily or trade-wise. If not a northern vassal house, Ned probably would have gotten a Royce, possibly a Blackwood.


isn't this the same thing with Jorah and the hightower as well as Lyanna and Robert match?.

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On 30/04/2018 at 5:02 PM, Angel Eyes said:

Or is a Dornish lady beneath a Lord Paramount's second son?

No, she isn't. Ashara was enough for Ned.

 

On 30/04/2018 at 5:02 PM, Angel Eyes said:

Say if Ned had wanted to marry Ashara before Lyanna was abducted by Rhaegar, would his father allow it?

Seeing how Rickard did his bussines, you can see that none of his kids wanted the match he made for them. We know how much Lyanna hated the match with Robert, and even if Barbrey Dustin is bitter, I do believe her that Brandon did not want to marry Catelyn. Because it does looks like Brandon to not want to marry Catelyn.

Then you have Ned, would his father allow it? I don't think so. According to the ASOIAF APP, Rickard was an ambitious man, and he would not gain much by marrying his second son into house Dayne, who was too far from the North.

Edited by theMADdestScientist_

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2 minutes ago, theMADdestScientist_ said:

No, she isn't. Ashara was enough for Ned.

 

Seeing how Rickard did his bussines, you can see that none of his kids wanted the match he made for them. We know how much Lyanna hated the match with Robert, and even if Barbrey Dustin is bitter, I do believe her that Brandon did not want to marry Catelyn. Because it does looks like Brandon to not want to marry Catelyn.

Then you have Ned, would his father allow it? I don

We don’t even know what Ned’s father planned for him.

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14 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

We don’t even know what Ned’s father planned for him.

I don't understand your comment. There are thousands of things we don't know, it doesn't prevent from discussing…

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Assuming Brandon lived to wed Catelyn, a second son could possibly have more free agency regarding a marriage match. 

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Given Rickard's southron ambitions, and the fact that the likely next queen (Elia Martell) was from Dorne, a marriage into an influential house from Dorne would be a good match.  We don't have enough info on how influential House Dayne was at this time, but given that they had a Kingsguard member (back when it was something special), and Ashara was a lady-in-waiting, they probably punched above their weight, so to say.  Probably a decent match.

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5 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

We don’t even know what Ned’s father planned for him.

I've always thought that part of the reason Rickard sent Ned to the Vale was to pair him up with the daughter of a son-less Vale House.

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8 hours ago, Nowy Tends said:

I don't understand your comment. There are thousands of things we don't know, it doesn't prevent from discussing…

It’s a general statement.

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7 hours ago, Nevets said:

Given Rickard's southron ambitions, and the fact that the likely next queen (Elia Martell) was from Dorne, a marriage into an influential house from Dorne would be a good match.  We don't have enough info on how influential House Dayne was at this time, but given that they had a Kingsguard member (back when it was something special), and Ashara was a lady-in-waiting, they probably punched above their weight, so to say.  Probably a decent match.

:thumbsup:

Another scenario; Rhaegar annuls his marriage to Elia and takes the young and beautiful wolf maid as his new wife. Ned, his goodbrother, marries to Ashara of House Dayne, an old and powerful house from Dorne to give a message to the Martells, "deal with it or else". Stannis was married to Selyse, a Florent with a similar purpose, to keep the Tyrells checked. 

From what we know, Ashara is actually the heir of Starfall at the time too, with no Ned Dayne yet and Arthur being KG.

So it's a win for all three parties;

Rhaegar gets his young and healthy wife, presumably fertile since her mother gave birth to 4 children who all lived to adulthood.

Rickard Stark fulfills even more southern ambitions with his daughter becoming a queen and his son bringing another prestigious house into his power bloc.

Daynes are allied to the house the queen is from and therefore indirectly to the crown. Considering Yronwoods, most powerful Dornish bannermen, are cross with the Martells at the time Dayne may even make a power play on Dorne with Stark help, Yronwood inaction and Crown's consent.

Since Ashara is the heir apparent for Daynes with Lord Dayne much older than her with still no heirs, I can also see Ned being shipped off to Starfall, saving Rickard the trouble of landing a second son and easing Daynes' concerns for the continuity of their house.

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17 hours ago, Gendarrion said:

isn't this the same thing with Jorah and the hightower as well as Lyanna and Robert match?.

Not really. Jorah's marriage to Lynesse was not arranged; it was more a thing of passion. So it doesn't appear there were any expectations of military cooperation or trade or anything like that. And I think it's likely that Lynesse was already soiled at this point, which means her prospects for a more suitable marriage were not good.

Lyanna's match to Robert was intended to seal an alliance, but this was part of a multi-realm power bloc that would have united the principal houses of three contiguous regions: the North, the Riverlands and the Stormlands. This is quite different from Ned marrying a Dayne, considering the Daynes cannot deliver all of Dorne and it would be difficult to get men, arms and such from Dayne lands should the eventual conflict pit both Dorne and the Reach against the NRS axis, which it did.

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