NBA playoffs 2018 - Raptors over Cavs in 6

[Relic]

2 hours ago, Red Tiger said:

You depressing fuck!

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I agree with everything you said.

 

http://gph.is/1WcCGy4

As a KNicks fan i reserve the right to be salty AF. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

13 hours ago, Red Tiger said:

See, I don't agree with your phrasing. It's not that Curry handed anything over, it's that Curry realized that Durant was probably the better scoring option.  That does not mean that Curry stopped being the alpha-dog so to speak, it just means that he leads in a different way.

It's not like he went from being Batman to being Robin, it's more like Batman welcoming Superman to the crew.

Curry absolutely handed over the team. I don’t know how anyone can even argue against that. He’s said so himself. During the recruitment process he specifically said he didn’t care about MVPs or being the best player on his team. He wanted to win championships, and sacrificed a bit of his personal shine to ensure dominance. And honestly, I respect that. He sees the bigger picture.

13 hours ago, Jaime L said:

Dwyane Wade? 

I considered Wade, but it’s not the same. Wade was four years removed from winning his title, and many thought he might leave Miami (though we know if he did, he and James would still have united). Furthermore, the Heat were above average, but still middling. And Wade had never been league MVP (though he was in the top 5 conversation). Compare that to the 2016 Warriors, who were coming off of the best regular season ever and Curry was a two time reigning MVP, and the first unanimous one at that. Going into the Finals, many were speculating that he was the game’s best player, and more importantly, he changed basketball. He was taking LeBron’s title of face of the league until LeBron snatched it back. And rather than fight for it back, he recruited Durant. Wade didn’t do that. Finally, Wade was the top dog in the Heat’s first year of the big three. It was only after their defeat that he gave the keys to LeBron. Curry did it on the front end. They are comparable in a sense, but Curry’s sacrifice was far greater than Wade’s. And it was wise.

[Red Tiger]

2 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Curry absolutely handed over the team. I don’t know how anyone can even argue against that. He’s said so himself. During the recruitment process he specifically said he didn’t care about MVPs or being the best player on his team. He wanted to win championships, and sacrificed a bit of his personal shine to ensure dominance. And honestly, I respect that. He sees the bigger picture.

Im sorry, but that is some poor reading comprehension there.

Saying "I don't care about winning MVPs" or "I don't care who's the best" is not the same as saying "It's his team now, not mine". That is you drawing wrong conclusions based on something athletes say all the time for faux modesty reasons.

To use your logic, Wade said the same thing when Shaq came to the Heat, yet Wade was the top scoring option from the start. LeBron also said that all he cared about was winning championships when he went to Miami, but lo and behold, he was still the top guy there, even in his uncomfortable first year.

TLDR Athletes say a lot of things

[Maithanet]

I agree these playoffs have been very disappointing.  It's possible the ECF will become competitive, but I really don't care because those teams are both way too flawed to stand toe to toe with Houston, let alone GSW.

The only hope is that Houston turns things around - a great WCF would forgive a lot.  Houston winning tonight is essential, but that alone isn't enough to make it a series.  I don't really think they have it in them. 

[Red Tiger]

2 hours ago, Relic said:

http://gph.is/1WcCGy4

As a KNicks fan i reserve the right to be salty AF. 

For real, though. These playoffs truly have been boring as hell to watch. Cavs playing ugly as sin basketball, Houston caving to GSW like we knew they would, no surprises out of either the East or West, no Kawhi to suddenly do something for San Antonio.

[Relic]

3 hours ago, Matrim Fox Cauthon said:

This Warriors team is indeed ridiculous, but so has been LeBron's hegemony, and I grow increasingly tired of it. The Warriors at least represent something comparatively "new" for the game.

I dunno, I find the LeBron narrative far more compelling.  The Warriors were sort of fun, even tho i loathe Dreymond, until the Durant thing.

 

[Matrim Fox Cauthon]

4 minutes ago, Relic said:

I dunno, I find the LeBron narrative far more compelling.  The Warriors were sort of fun, even tho i loathe Dreymond, until the Durant thing.

Every year for the past decade and more has been the LeBron narrative. I'm ready for a new generation. I'm ready for the Eastern Conference to be more than LeBron.

[Maithanet]

1 minute ago, Relic said:

I dunno, I find the LeBron narrative far more compelling.  The Warriors were sort of fun, even tho i loathe Dreymond, until the Durant thing.

 

Me too.  One man's dominance when surrounded by a team of competance varying from excellent (2013 Heat) to abysmal (2007 Cavs, 2018 Cavs), is actually pretty compelling.  I wish the East would put together better teams to challenge him, but that's not Lebron's fault. 

And I definitely liked the 2013-2016 Warriors.  Curry-Thompson-Green were fun to watch, and I liked the supporting cast of Iguodala and Livingston as well.  In spite of playing both great offense and great defense, there was something about their game (particularly Curry's game) that made you worry that maybe it wouldn't translate to playoff success.  And the 2015 and 2016 seasons vindicated that.  With more holds/contact allowed in the playoffs, Curry did struggle.  For all their superior talent in 2015, they could only defeat the one-man Cavaliers when Lebron was completely exhausted.  And in 2016, they overcame some adversity against OKC, but then folded in the final 5 minutes of game 7.  That was really great basketball, and I would have been thrilled to see Warriors-Cavs III in 2017.

And then Durant came and ruined it.  Now rooting for the Warriors is like rooting for the Borg.  Their wins are so expected you don't celebrate, you merely shrug.  I am really looking forward to when the salary cap forces that team to break up, because everyone knows that's the only thing that will stop them. 

[Relic]

2 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Me too.  One man's dominance when surrounded by a team of competance varying from excellent (2013 Heat) to abysmal (2007 Cavs, 2018 Cavs), is actually pretty compelling.  I wish the East would put together better teams to challenge him, but that's not Lebron's fault. 

And I definitely liked the 2013-2016 Warriors.  Curry-Thompson-Green were fun to watch, and I liked the supporting cast of Iguodala and Livingston as well.  In spite of playing both great offense and great defense, there was something about their game (particularly Curry's game) that made you worry that maybe it wouldn't translate to playoff success.  And the 2015 and 2016 seasons vindicated that.  With more holds/contact allowed in the playoffs, Curry did struggle.  For all their superior talent in 2015, they could only defeat the one-man Cavaliers when Lebron was completely exhausted.  And in 2016, they overcame some adversity against OKC, but then folded in the final 5 minutes of game 7.  That was really great basketball, and I would have been thrilled to see Warriors-Cavs III in 2017.

And then Durant came and ruined it.  Now rooting for the Warriors is like rooting for the Borg.  Their wins are so expected you don't celebrate, you merely shrug.  I am really looking forward to when the salary cap forces that team to break up, because everyone knows that's the only thing that will stop them. 

Agree 100%. 

 

[Relic]

9 minutes ago, Matrim Fox Cauthon said:

Every year for the past decade and more has been the LeBron narrative. I'm ready for a new generation. I'm ready for the Eastern Conference to be more than LeBron.

He's like Conan. A warrior King, sometimes joined by mighty allies, laying waste to all who oppose. 

Not really...but kinda. 

[Red Tiger]

1 hour ago, Matrim Fox Cauthon said:

Every year for the past decade and more has been the LeBron narrative. I'm ready for a new generation. I'm ready for the Eastern Conference to be more than LeBron.

Soon you will, because im quite certain he won't be on an Eastern team next year.

[Matrim Fox Cauthon]

2 minutes ago, Red Tiger said:

Soon you will, because im quite certain he won't be on an Eastern team next year.

I would then pray that such a move would lead to the destruction of the Conferences.

[Red Tiger]

1 hour ago, Matrim Fox Cauthon said:

I would then pray that such a move would lead to the destruction of the Conferences.

Would you settle for the destruction of the East and 10 straights years of Western championships?

Oh lord, I just made myself depressed.

[sperry]

16 hours ago, Rhom said:

They just showed a video of Cleveland winning the lottery and drafting local phenom Lebron James.

Now Phoenix wins the lottery and the top prospect just so happens to play at Arizona?

Yeah... and the NBA wonders why people think the lottery is rigged.

They would be absolute fools to take Ayton, and I don't think they will. Doncic will go #1.

[sperry]

1 hour ago, Maithanet said:

Me too.  One man's dominance when surrounded by a team of competance varying from excellent (2013 Heat) to abysmal (2007 Cavs, 2018 Cavs), is actually pretty compelling.  I wish the East would put together better teams to challenge him, but that's not Lebron's fault. 

And I definitely liked the 2013-2016 Warriors.  Curry-Thompson-Green were fun to watch, and I liked the supporting cast of Iguodala and Livingston as well.  In spite of playing both great offense and great defense, there was something about their game (particularly Curry's game) that made you worry that maybe it wouldn't translate to playoff success.  And the 2015 and 2016 seasons vindicated that.  With more holds/contact allowed in the playoffs, Curry did struggle.  For all their superior talent in 2015, they could only defeat the one-man Cavaliers when Lebron was completely exhausted.  And in 2016, they overcame some adversity against OKC, but then folded in the final 5 minutes of game 7.  That was really great basketball, and I would have been thrilled to see Warriors-Cavs III in 2017.

And then Durant came and ruined it.  Now rooting for the Warriors is like rooting for the Borg.  Their wins are so expected you don't celebrate, you merely shrug.  I am really looking forward to when the salary cap forces that team to break up, because everyone knows that's the only thing that will stop them. 

 

The future of the league is pretty depressing. We might get one last Cavs/Warriors series, but past that it will be Warriors-Celtics every year from here to eternity.

[Maithanet]

Just now, sperry said:

The future of the league is pretty depressing. We might get one last Cavs/Warriors series, but past that it will be Warriors-Celtics every year from here to eternity.

I'm not quite so sanguine.  The Celtics and Sixers look like they're going to dominate the East for a while, but that's fine.  A lot will depend on if Philly can get another big name star this offseason.  If they add Lebron/George/Leonard, they have real championship possibilities.

The Warriors will win this year.  This offseason the Warriors lose some of their depth, but none of their main core.  So they'll win next year barring serious injury.  But then after next year the NBA goes back to being a competitive league - they can't possibly pay Thompson after they extend Durant.  Not to mention by 2019 Iguodala will be 36, and his game isn't aging well with his inconsistent 3 pointer.  A team of Curry + Durant + Green + limited depth is still a great team, possibly the most talented in the league.  But they're not unbeatable.  I could realistically see Boston or Philly or New Orleans or Utah potentially challenging them if they build well over the next two years.

[Fez]

7 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

I'm not quite so sanguine.  The Celtics and Sixers look like they're going to dominate the East for a while, but that's fine.  A lot will depend on if Philly can get another big name star this offseason.  If they add Lebron/George/Leonard, they have real championship possibilities.

The Warriors will win this year.  This offseason the Warriors lose some of their depth, but none of their main core.  So they'll win next year barring serious injury.  But then after next year the NBA goes back to being a competitive league - they can't possibly pay Thompson after they extend Durant.  Not to mention by 2019 Iguodala will be 36, and his game isn't aging well with his inconsistent 3 pointer.  A team of Curry + Durant + Green + limited depth is still a great team, possibly the most talented in the league.  But they're not unbeatable.  I could realistically see Boston or Philly or New Orleans or Utah potentially challenging them if they build well over the next two years.

Also, things can change quickly in the NBA. If Houston can do the cap space jujitsu needed (and the convincing) to get LeBron, that alone puts them in contention to beat the Warriors next year. So could a Lakers team based on LeBron and Kawhi Leonard, with some other pieces. There's other conceivable (though maybe not very likely) super-teams that could also do it next year.

[sperry]

12 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

I'm not quite so sanguine.  The Celtics and Sixers look like they're going to dominate the East for a while, but that's fine.  A lot will depend on if Philly can get another big name star this offseason.  If they add Lebron/George/Leonard, they have real championship possibilities.

The Warriors will win this year.  This offseason the Warriors lose some of their depth, but none of their main core.  So they'll win next year barring serious injury.  But then after next year the NBA goes back to being a competitive league - they can't possibly pay Thompson after they extend Durant.  Not to mention by 2019 Iguodala will be 36, and his game isn't aging well with his inconsistent 3 pointer.  A team of Curry + Durant + Green + limited depth is still a great team, possibly the most talented in the league.  But they're not unbeatable.  I could realistically see Boston or Philly or New Orleans or Utah potentially challenging them if they build well over the next two years.

I don't like Philly's roster. LeBron doesn't fit, I don't think George moves the needle enough, and I don't see how they'd get Kawhi.

 

Having a big man that wants to score in today's NBA is just death. You will never beat the teams that can shoot 3s if you're running post-up plays to Joel Embiid. Despite being a phenomenal talent, he's a huge liablity because he warps your system to something you don't want to be doing.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

3 hours ago, Red Tiger said:

Im sorry, but that is some poor reading comprehension there.

Saying "I don't care about winning MVPs" or "I don't care who's the best" is not the same as saying "It's his team now, not mine". That is you drawing wrong conclusions based on something athletes say all the time for faux modesty reasons.

To use your logic, Wade said the same thing when Shaq came to the Heat, yet Wade was the top scoring option from the start. LeBron also said that all he cared about was winning championships when he went to Miami, but lo and behold, he was still the top guy there, even in his uncomfortable first year.

TLDR Athletes say a lot of things

I really don’t see how it’s a reading comprehension fail. Yes, athletes say a lot of things, and yes, almost all of it is meaningless (please be good Josh Rosen!), but to me Curry was being honest and making it pretty clear he’d be OK being the number 2 and didn’t mind losing his “face of the franchise” status (I don’t know if he actually did). Either way, that’s what he was communicating. That said, I think we’re entering the territory of narcissism of small differences, so there’s no point in belaboring this further.

In other news, there are two great stats from last night:

(i) The Cavs had 11 open looks. The Celtics had 42. That’s just terrible defense.

(ii) In 27 minutes of play, J.R. Smith had more technical fouls than points. That’s pretty hilarious.

[Maithanet]

16 minutes ago, Fez said:

Also, things can change quickly in the NBA. If Houston can do the cap space jujitsu needed (and the convincing) to get LeBron, that alone puts them in contention to beat the Warriors next year. So could a Lakers team based on LeBron and Kawhi Leonard, with some other pieces. There's other conceivable (though maybe not very likely) super-teams that could also do it next year.

I don't know that Houston finding that cap space is really possible, and honestly I'm not really sure how much I like a Lebron-Harden-Paul-Capela superteam.  An effective superteam requires guys who are elite without the ball, and Lebron/Harden/Paul don't really fit the bill.

While I love a Kawhi/Lebron pairing (so much), I am not sure those guys + whoever is left over could possibly compete with the Warriors next year. 

14 minutes ago, sperry said:

I don't like Philly's roster. LeBron doesn't fit, I don't think George moves the needle enough, and I don't see how they'd get Kawhi.

I don't like Lebron's fit.  I think George might move the needle enough, he's a very good player, and they only need him to be third banana.  Obviously it's contingent on the young guys getting better, but there's reason to assume they will.  Kawhi's price is undetermined of yet, but I'm sure the Spurs would prefer trading him East if possible, and the Sixers have pieces to deal (including Fultz, who could still develop into a star).

Quote

Having a big man that wants to score in today's NBA is just death. You will never beat the teams that can shoot 3s if you're running post-up plays to Joel Embiid. Despite being a phenomenal talent, he's a huge liablity because he warps your system to something you don't want to be doing.

Strongly disagree.  Death in the NBA is having a big man who can't defend.  A big man who can get high percentage shots and pressure opponents to double him is still an elite skill, there just aren't many guys who can do that and still defend out to the 3 point line when necessary.  Embiid is one of the few.