How did Ned learn where Lyanna was?

[Angel Eyes]

So there's all those theories about Lyanna giving birth to a child at the Tower of Joy, such as R+L=J (Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon) , R+L=D (Rhaegar + Lyanna = Daenerys), etc. But how did Ned find out where Lyanna was being held by the Kingsguard? 

[The Mountain That Flies]

Wasn’t Gerold Hightower sent to get Rhaegar during the war, then wound up just swapping places with him? Someone would hve had to have known where Hightower went, and Ned deduced from there that this was Lyanna’s likely location.

[Dorian Martell's son]

33 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

So there's all those theories about Lyanna giving birth to a child at the Tower of Joy, such as R+L=J (Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon) , R+L=D (Rhaegar + Lyanna = Daenerys), etc. But how did Ned find out where Lyanna was being held by the Kingsguard? 

It matters not, but I am sure it has to do with someone in the KG or the princes retinue that spilled the beans 

[Frey Kings]

Pretty sure it involves the Daynes of Starfall 

Because the place of ToJ could've been in a million other places 

[Clegane'sPup]

1 hour ago, Angel Eyes said:

But how did Ned find out where Lyanna was being held by the Kingsguard? 

I have had a bit of trouble getting past the cookie thing.

I am one of the people who question how Eddard found his sister.

[kissdbyfire]

Why, it was Bloodraven, obviously!

[Faera]

After the Sack of King's Landing, Ned essentially went off to lift the siege at Storm's End and finish the war in the south. I suspect someone must have told him during the clean up job in Dorne.

[Megorova]

I have a version, how Ned has found out about Lyanna's location, and this version combines in it several of my theories.

First of all - Lyanna was Knight of the Laughing Tree, and Rhaegar knew it. And she also knew that he knew  He noticed her after she caused commotion, by pouring wine over Benjen's head, because he laughed, when she cried, after listening to Rhaegar's singing. And because he was an intelligent person, with an artistic mind (he was composer and songwritter, and he also liked to perform as a street mummer, so he was an artist), he not only noticed Lyanna and her beauty, but also details of her surroundings, such as Howland's shield, etc. So later he also identified the mystery knight as Lyanna, because of that shield, same shield as he saw before, in possession of Howland. And he also noticed, that the mystery knight had the same height and build as Lyanna. Neither her masquerade, nor the knight's booming voice, didn't tricked him, because he saw thru it, thanks to his own experience, as a mummer/actor.

So after either Rhaegar or Arthur heard from Aerys his plan to unmask the mystery knight, Rhaegar has sent Ashara Dayne to warn Lyanna, that the knight should disappear, and also to get rid of that shield. Maybe they thought, that when Lyanna wasn't wearing the armor, and using other accessories, that she used to impersonate a knight, she placed them back from where she took them, including Howland's shield. So Ashara went to where Howland was staying, and at that time he was staying in Ned Stark's tent.

People saw Ashara Dayne, sneaking in or out of Ned's tent, on late evening or in the middle of the night, so that's why she was dishonored at Harrenhal, and why people thought, that there was something going on between Ned and Ashara.

After Rhaegar "kidnapped" Lyanna, it became known, that when he came after her, among his companions was Arthur Dayne and Oswell Whent. So while Ned was fighting in Robert's Rebellion, Howland was looking for Lyanna, and eventually he went to Starfall, to try and find from Ashara, where her brother may be. That's when the two of them had an affair, and Ashara got pregnant. 9 months later Meera Reed was born. Originally Wylla from Starfall was Meera's wetnurse. After the Rebellion mostly ended, Howland informed Ned about Lyanna's whereabouts, and later joined him on the way to the Tower of Joy.

Ashara, Meera, Wylla, and maester Marwyn (who was summoned from Oldtown, because of Lyanna's pregnancy) sailed from (Marwyn from Oldtown, then) Starfall to Vulture's Roost, and from there on horseback or cart to Tower of Joy (less than 50 miles between Vulture's Roost and TofJ. Speed of carriage horses is 10-15 miles per hour. They had a little baby with them, so they had to stop often. So it could have taken two days of travel for them, to get to their destination.) 

Ashara also went to the Tower, either because she knew that Howland will go there, to fight against Arthur; or she wanted Howland to see his baby; or she wanted to prevent the fight between northerners and Kingsguards; or maybe because Rhaegar, prior going to war, asked Ashara to bring a trustworthy maester, to help Lyanna during her labour; or for some other reason. Either way she went there, and took her baby with her too. Because she had to send Wylla to aid Lyanna, in case if Lyanna will die during labour, or if she won't have enough milk. So if the wetnurse had to go, and Ashara for whatever reason also had to go, then she couldn't leave her baby at Starfall. And they have chosen specifically maester Marwyn, probably because when Rhaegar was young, Marwyn was one of his teachers at King's Landing, and later, after Rhaegar eloped with Lyanna, Marwyn married them (Marwyn in Welsh means marry). So they trusted to Marwyn, that he will keep a secret about Lyanna's baby, same as he kept a secret about Rhaegar's and Lyanna's marriage.

After Arthur and Lyanna died, Ashara went with Howland Reed to Greywater Watch, where she married with Howland, and changed her name to Jyana Reed (Jyana in Lyanna's memory). Wylla became Jon's wetnurse, and sailed together with Ned and dead Lyanna to King's Landing, and then to White Harbor, and from there to Winterfell.

Ashara gave Arthur's sword Dawn to Ned, for him to later give it to Jon. And Ned placed it near Lyanna's tomb, in crypts under Winterfell. Dawn is Lightbringer. And Jon is Azor Ahai reborn. Jon had those nightmares about Winterfell's crypts, because the sword was calling him there.

Maester Marwyn knew about the promised Prince prophecy. And he has read three pages, out of book of prophecies, written by Daenys the Dreamer, because he had access to Targaryens' private library, while he was Rhaegar's teacher. So later he also thought, that Rhaegar was the promised Prince. And then, that it was Elia's Aegon. But when both of them died, Marwyn has lost his faith. So after Robert's Rebellion has ended, he went to Asshai - another source of prophecy about the Savior and Second Long Night, to find his faith again. And instead he has found there Shiera Seastar (that lived in Asshai under name Quaithe), and became her apprentice. So Marwyn knows, that Jon Snow is actually legitimate son of Rhaegar Targaryen. But he didn't thought, that Jon was someone special, because there was no signs during time, when he was conceived or born, unlike it was with Elia's Aegon (Red Comet seen above King's Landing at time of his conceivement).  

Ashara/Jyana Reed gave birth to Meera, then Jojen, and then Edric Ned Dayne. I think Arthur and Ashara didn't had a brother, so there was no Lord Dayne of Starfall, after their father died. Ashara was able to freely have a fling with Howland, while he was with her at Starfall, because she was Lady of Starfall, and de-facto head of Dayne's House, after Arthur has joined Kingsguards. So eventually new Lord of Starfall was supposed to become Ashara's son. And that's how it happened in the end. Only the Lord of Starfall became not Ashara's firstborn son Jojen, but her secondborn son Edric. That's because Reeds also needed to have a male heir, for him to become Lord of Greywater Watch after Howland. So Jojen was supposed to become Lord of GWW and head of House Reed, and Edric Lord of Starfall and head of House Dayne.

Probably the Tower of Joy got its name, because that's where Lyanna and Rhaegar got married. Then they went to Starfall, where they were staying with Daynes. That's when Lyanna and Ashara became friends, and why Ashara has chosen Jyana, as her new name, after she left Dorne with Howland. Gerold Hightower has found Rhaegar at Starfall. That's because people knew, that when Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna, Arthur Dayne was also there. It was also known, that among Rhaegar's companions was Oswell Whent. But unlike Howland, that didn't knew Rhaegar, and what kind of relationship he had with Arthur and with Oswell, Gerold knew, that out of those two, Rhaegar trusted the most to Arthur. So if one of those two Kingsguards knows where Rhaegar may be, then that's Arthur, and not Oswell. And Howland first went to look for clues about Lyanna's whereabouts, to Harrenhal, family castle of House Whent, where Lord was Oswell's brother. That's because Harrenhal was closer to the Neck than Starfall, so first Howland went to Harrenhal, and to Starfall much later, only after he hadn't found any clues at previous location.

So that's why Gerold went to Starfall, just in case, what if Rhaegar went there on Arthur's invitation. From there Rhaegar, Lyanna, Gerold, Arthur, Oswell Whent, and probably a few others, traveled north from Starfall thru Prince's Pass. Sometime during their journey, they found out that Lyanna is pregnant. Probably she was in no state to continue their travel. So Rhaegar left her, and three Kingsguards at the Tower of Joy, and has sent a raven to Ashara, to summon maester Marwyn from Oldtown.

That's how Ashara knew, that Lyanna was at the Tower of Joy. And then she told about it to Howland, and Howland told Ned.

[Clegane'sPup]

43 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Why, it was Bloodraven, obviously!

You, jest. Obviously. 

Seriously though --- not directed to you ---- 

3 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

But how did Ned find out where Lyanna was being held by the Kingsguard? 

How did Eddard know where to find his sister?

Did that Brandon squire who was spared and rode with Eddard to the toj know summtim me the reader doesn't know?

 

[Alexis-something-Rose]

It's something I've wondered about, who revealed the location. At the same time, I'm not positive that Lyanna and Rhaegar were at the ToJ the whole time or that Lyanna remained there after he left to go back to King's Landing. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense that he would leave her in the open like that, in a place that may not be defensible. Three men can only do so much to protect her.

Given all the information the KG had when Ned arrived, the information was coming from somewhere. I don't see them receiving ravens in the middle of nowhere for one or a rider coming and going to bring them information. It makes little sense. 

I think Lyanna & Co were at some castle in the Dornish Marches that's near the Prince's Pass (and I'm not necessarily thinking of House Caron here), with someone who was loyal to Targaryen. When news came of Rhaegar's death, and then the sack of KL, and then that Mace Tyrell has bent the knee, Arthur and the others decided that they needed to go because there are no more allies. It's just not safe anymore. She goes into labor while they are traveling, closest place to take her is the ToJ and they end up there. 

And Ned comes down from Storm's End, gets his information in the Dornish Marches from whomever that the KG took Lyanna into Dorne. I have been wondering where in the Stormlands the Lonmouth lands are.

[Megorova]

48 minutes ago, Widow's Watch said:

Given all the information the KG had when Ned arrived, the information was coming from somewhere. I don't see them receiving ravens in the middle of nowhere for one or a rider coming and going to bring them information. It makes little sense. 

I think that Ashara Dayne and maester Marwyn, on Rhaegar's request, sailed towards TofJ. Ashara was Princess Elia's lady-in-waiting, so on the way to TofJ, they visited Sunspear. When they arrived there, the city was in mouring after Elia's death. That's where they have found out that Rhaegar is dead, King Aerys is dead, Elia and both of her children were killed, seems that Robert Baratheon is going to be crowned as new King of 7K, and that Ned Stark is looking for his sister. So after they have arrived to TofJ, they brought all those news to Kingsguards, and that's how Lyanna knew, that Ned will come there soon. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

Someone told. Someone always tells. 

[Dorian Martell's son]

5 hours ago, Frey Kings said:

Pretty sure it involves the Daynes of Starfall 

Because the place of ToJ could've been in a million other places 

you mean the reaches? because that's Stormland territory 

[Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn]

Barristan the Booooold

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

Barristan wasn't in KL after the sack. But I agree he might have known. He might have had  raven sent I suppose. But I'd guess one of Rhaella's ladies who was left behind maybe or Jaime though I doubt it given his feelings towards Ned. You have to ask yourself who Rhaegar was likely to have talked to in the RK. The answer is his Mum and maybe the remaining three KG's. 

[zandru]

I'm thinking that George RR will go into all of this in "The Winds of Winter", or so he's said. Which implies - we may never know!! (sorry; it's Monday)

[Leonardo]

I think it wasn't really a secret after Rhaegar came back. If it was, then Varys or Jaime would have certainly known.

[Ygrain]

On 6. 5. 2018 at 3:38 AM, Lost Melnibonean said:

Someone told. Someone always tells. 

Damn, ninja'ed!

There are several options, partly depending on how Hightower found ToJ. If Aerys somehow (cough, Varys) found out and sent Hightower there, then Ned's source would have been in KL - most likely, Varys again. However, there is zero indication in Ned's PoV that he and Varys shared such a secret.

If Hightower was directed to ToJ (or to some other location where he received further instructions, so that no-one in KL knew), then the information must have come from 1)Rhaegar himself, 2) his closest associates, or 3)Lyanna herself, perhaps in some collaboration. 

1) As far as we know, Rhaegar didn't have a chance to talk to Ned prior the Trident, but he might have had a contingency plan and sent a message. The one I have in mind is Ethan Glover, whom we last saw with Brandon and who was presumably imprisoned in KL, and then we see him accompany Ned to ToJ for some reason.

2) That would be the Daynes, who were most likely supplying ToJ with food and information. Perhaps even Ashara herself, who would be a convenient go-between.

3) Having learned about Rhaegar's death, Lyanna became desperate because she couldn't expect any support from Aerys. With the help of the Daynes (again, perhaps Ashara), she reached out to Ned. The situation changed drastically after the news of the Sack reached ToJ but by then, it was too late to stop the message.

 

[Corvo the Crow]

On 06.05.2018 at 1:41 AM, Faera said:

After the Sack of King's Landing, Ned essentially went off to lift the siege at Storm's End and finish the war in the south. I suspect someone must have told him during the clean up job in Dorne.

Best answer! Even if it may be given unwittingly.

We are never told of any fighting in Dorne and it wouldn't be wrong to assume there wasn't since the rebellion was pretty much over after Nede lifted the siege of SE but...

Quote

"Honor," she spat. "How dare you play the noble lord with me! What do you take me for? You've a bastard of your own, I've seen him. Who was the mother, I wonder? Some Dornish peasant you raped while her holdfast burned? A whore? Or was it the grieving sister, the Lady Ashara? She threw herself into the sea, I'm told. Why was that? For the brother you slew, or the child you stole? Tell me, my honorable Lord Eddard, how are you any different from Robert, or me, or Jaime?"

During his time in Dorne burning holdfasta and raping windows Ned could easily have learned some KG was spotted along with our prince and a wolfish girl.

[Lost Melnibonean]

4 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Best answer! Even if it may be given unwittingly.

We are never told of any fighting in Dorne and it wouldn't be wrong to assume there wasn't since the rebellion was pretty much over after Nede lifted the siege of SE but...

During his time in Dorne burning holdfasta and raping windows Ned could easily have learned some KG was spotted along with our prince and a wolfish girl.

Clearly, 'cause that's the kind of character the Ned is.