Westworld Season 1 Re-watch: It All Makes Sense Now. Maybe,

[Fragile Bird]

I have been meaning to re-watch Season 1 of Westworld in preparation for Season 2 and have finally started. I think it's actually worked out better this way, seeing a few episodes of Season 2 and going back to the start. @Tywin et al. got me inspired to finally start.

If you can do so, please join in! I've watched Episode 1, The Original, and will make comments, mainly to highlight what strikes me now as being significant. After a few days, or less, someone can jump in and talk about Episode 2, or I will if no one else does.

I think the opening interview between Dolores and who we all believe to be Arnold is very significant. It's also the only scene in this episode that we think comes from the past. 

The format for the interview with a host is always the same: Can you hear me, Do you know where you are, (I'm in a dream). There's nothing to be afraid of as long as you answer all of my questions correctly. Lose the accent/Lose the emotional effect. Have you ever questioned your reality.

The threat is interesting. Or else...what? Did hosts lie? Note that later on when Stubbs interviews her he asks her if she has ever lied, and she says no. Stubbs then asks her if she has ever hurt a living thing and she says "Of course not". The episode ends with the infamous scene (infamous in terms of what's to come) of Dolorous killing the fly that lands on her neck. We also see Teddy sitting on the porch of a house where guys who waylaid him in the street are cavorting with prostitutes and laughing about using Teddy as target practice if they get bored. A fly crawls up Teddy's cheek right to his eye and he doesn't even notice.

Arnold asks her what she thinks of her world, and she says this: "Some people choose to see the ugliness in this world, the disarray. I choose to see the beauty, to believe there is an order to our days, a purpose." This is something we hear from Dolores over and over. He then asks what she thinks of the Newcomers, and she says "I like to remember what my father taught me, that at one point or another we were all new to this world. The Newcomers are just looking for the same thing as us, a place to be free, to stake out our dreams, a place with unlimited possibilities."

He goes on to ask her if her view would change if she knew there were no chance encounters, and that everyone she knows was built to gratify the desires of the people who pay to come here, the Newcomers. Since we know that Dolores is going to remember everything it's obviously a comment that shaped her.

A second discussion, this time between Bernard and Ford, is also revealing, about slipping the evolutionary leash. "We can cure any disease, keep even the weakest of us alive, and one fine day perhaps even resurrect the dead. Call forth Lazarus from the cave. You know what that means, it means we are done."

That sounds like a really good world to live in, but possibly only if you have the money.

There are many more things to comment about, but this post is getting too long.

[Fragile Bird]

We had a brief discussion about the Klondike sector mentioned in the latest episode. We found out about that sector in the first few minutes of S1 Ep01. A man is on the train to the park speaking to other people, saying the first time he came he played it white hat, the family was here, went fishing, went gold hunting in the mountains, but the next time he came alone and went pure evil, the best two weeks of his life.

Elise kissing Clementine and being very gentle and kind to Dolores when she's weeping over Teddy's body gives me hope she is still alive.

Ford is in the sub-basement where the decommissioned hosts are stored, drinking with Old Bill, the second host ever built. He wants to drink a toast to the lady with the white shoes, a bawdy little toast. The original, real, toast generally uses red shoes, and there is speculation on the internet that 'the lady in white shoes' is a reference to "Wyatt", Dolores having been the first host made. Note how carefully Old Bill is stored - will we see him again?

Bernard shows Elsie how Clementine does a reverie, and says it makes hosts seem more real and makes people fall in love with them. I think it also makes hosts love hosts as well. And Bernard wants to record a facial move Theresa makes (Bernard is in 'in love' with Theresa for the moment), which she refuses. Note later on Maeve has feelings for Clementine.

The photo of the woman Abernathy picks up and shows to Dolores was a stock image the show used. Then they went out and hired the model in the photo to play...William's wife! Yes, the wife we see at the retirement party for her father in Season 2 is the woman in the photo.

When Walter goes wrong, the host who shot up Dolores' home with Rebus, he wanders around the bar drinking his milk and says "Not gonna die this time Arnold, and now they're gonna kill me". When the tech team arrives to collect the bodies, Elsie is puzzled, saying that it's Walter always buys it, and Bernard says, 'Maybe Walter got tired of buying it'. Foreshadowing, or does Bernard know something. Theresa says she doesn't want this homicidal thing back out and Bernard tells her he's supposed to be homicidal. That's why the hosts who have not become conscious kill people so easily, they were written that way, as opposed to the hosts who are killing for revenge.

[DMC]

Good rundown on the pilot, or "The Original."  I just rewatched it, and the only thing that struck me (that you didn't mention) was at the very end, when Ford and Bernard are running diagnostics on Abernathy.  Ford explains:

Quote

He liked to quote Shakespeare, John Donne, Gertrude Stein. I admit the last one is a bit of an anachronism, but I couldn't resist. These are fragments of prior builds. The reveries must be allowing him to access them. No cause for alarm, Bernard. Simply our old work coming back to haunt us.

So, I assume anyone reading this knows "these violent delights have violent ends" is a Romeo & Juliet quote.  In the most recent episode - 2.3 "Virtu e Fortuna" - Abernathy tries to say "What is this use of a violent kind of delightfulness if there’s no pleasure in…"

That quote is from Gertrude Stein's "A Substance in a Cushion."  The full sentence is:  "What is the use of a violent kind of delightfulness if there is no pleasure in not getting tired of it."  So, now Abernathy's "violent delight" quote is not from a source that came before the wild west, but after.  Veeery interesting (at least to me).

[Jace, Extat]

1 minute ago, dmc515 said:

Good rundown on the pilot, or "The Original."  I just rewatched it, and the only thing that struck me (that you didn't mention) was at the very end, when Ford and Bernard are running diagnostics on Abernathy.  Ford explains:

So, I assume anyone reading this knows "these violent delights have violent ends" is a Romeo & Juliet quote.  In the most recent episode - 2.3 "Virtu e Fortuna" - Abernathy tries to say "What is this use of a violent kind of delightfulness if there’s no pleasure in…"

That quote is from Gertrude Stein's "A Substance in a Cushion."  The full sentence is:  "What is the use of a violent kind of delightfulness if there is no pleasure in not getting tired of it."  So, now Abernathy's "violent delight" quote is not from a source that came before the wild west, but after.  Veeery interesting (at least to me).

That's got to be Sizemore's doing right? Who knows what that goon thought was a good cover story to get Abernathy on the train.

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Pony Empress Jace said:

That's got to be Sizemore's doing right? Who knows what that goon thought was a good cover story to get Abernathy on the train.

I don't see Sizemore's character even reading Stein, nor using many Shakespeare quotes - except for the obvious ones - for that matter.

[Jace, Extat]

1 minute ago, dmc515 said:

I don't see Sizemore's character even reading Stein, nor using many Shakespeare quotes - except for the obvious ones - for that matter.

1st) Where else might he have gotten it? Ford?

2nd) I LOVE Sizemore. And the only stein I've ever read said 15% alcohol.

[DMC]

5 minutes ago, Pony Empress Jace said:

1st) Where else might he have gotten it? Ford?

2nd) I LOVE Sizemore. And the only stein I've ever read said 15% alcohol.

1.)  Yup, or just Nolan slyly using the variation in the quote symbolically.

2.)  Anti-semite.

[Fragile Bird]

1 hour ago, dmc515 said:

Good rundown on the pilot, or "The Original."  I just rewatched it, and the only thing that struck me (that you didn't mention) was at the very end, when Ford and Bernard are running diagnostics on Abernathy.  Ford explains:

So, I assume anyone reading this knows "these violent delights have violent ends" is a Romeo & Juliet quote.  In the most recent episode - 2.3 "Virtu e Fortuna" - Abernathy tries to say "What is this use of a violent kind of delightfulness if there’s no pleasure in…"

That quote is from Gertrude Stein's "A Substance in a Cushion."  The full sentence is:  "What is the use of a violent kind of delightfulness if there is no pleasure in not getting tired of it."  So, now Abernathy's "violent delight" quote is not from a source that came before the wild west, but after.  Veeery interesting (at least to me).

I was going through it very carefully and still had about 20 minutes to cover, but I hoped someone else would make some comments.

That scene with Abernathy, where Ford asks him questions before decommissioning him and we get all the quotes from Shakespeare, is just wonderful. How Abernathy changes from the friendly former sheriff running his ranch and looking after his daughter to the cannibal professor quoting dark lines from Shakespeare. The line about "I will have such revenges upon you both, That all the world shall - I will do such things - what they are I know not but they shall be" is quite frightening as he looks at Ford and then at Bernard. And earlier, when he was having his breakdown, and tells Dolores, "I had a question, a question you're not supposed to ask, a question you're not supposed to know. You should go, leave. Don't you see, hell is empty and all the devils are here". That last quote is from The Tempest, when the magician uses his magic to get his revenge.

Abernathy is obviously gaining consciousness and turning to Shakespeare to find the words for the fact that he can't cope with his change. We discussed last season what the significance was of the picture - he can see it but Dolores, right on the verge of her elevation, cannot yet see the picture, just like Bernard could not see the door. And Walter talked about Arnold not being killed this time. I guess the hosts that cannot deal with an elevated consciousness go mad?

eta: I'm not sure if Bernard and Dolores not seeing things is exactly the same. Bernard was programmed not to see certain things by Ford, like the door in the house, and the blueprint for his production. Dolores can't see William's wife in the picture, and I don't think she really heard the young black child who she brought over to see the horses when he says, you're not real, are you?

Maybe that is the same thing. 

The other significant quote, which we see Dolores repeat this season, is her oft repeated line to Teddy: There is a path for everyone and my path is bound with yours. I wonder if that's true or a red herring. We saw a dead Teddy in the water, has Dolores escaped that fate and escaped the park?

Oh, before I forget...one more thing I found fascinating in the episode and which I will watch for in future episodes. Listen to the conversations the hosts have among themselves when no humans are there. Maeve and Clementine talking to Teddy, where Clementine is totally in script and Maeve seems less so, even it is scripted. Why script such conversations when no humans are around? The Teddy and Dolores conversations seem like clichés, but as if Dolores wants to break out of the clichés. Rebus and Walter, Rebus telling Walter to go ahead and rape Dolores' mother, because even though she's dead she's still warm. Why do the hosts have such conversations? I have my own ideas, of course. 

[Jace, Extat]

6 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

I was going through it very carefully and still had about 20 minutes to cover, but I hoped someone else would make some comments.

That scene with Abernathy, where Ford asks him questions before decommissioning him and we get all the quotes from Shakespeare, is just wonderful. How Abernathy changes from the friendly former sheriff running his ranch and looking after his daughter to the cannibal professor quoting dark lines from Shakespeare. The line about "I will have such revenges upon you both, That all the world shall - I will do such things - what they are I know not but they shall be" is quite frightening as he looks at Ford and then at Bernard. And earlier, when he was having his breakdown, and tells Dolores, "I had a question, a question you're not supposed to ask, a question you're not supposed to know. You should go, leave. Don't you see, hell is empty and all the devils are here". That last quote is from The Tempest, when the magician uses his magic to get his revenge.

Abernathy is obviously gaining consciousness and turning to Shakespeare to find the words for the fact that he can't cope with his change. We discussed last season what the significance was of the picture - he can see it but Dolores, right on the verge of her elevation, cannot yet see the picture, just like Bernard could not see the door. And Walter talked about Arnold not being killed this time. I guess the hosts that cannot deal with an elevated consciousness go mad?

The other significant quote, which we see Dolores repeat this season, is her oft repeated line to Teddy: There is a path for everyone and my path is bound with yours.

Jace sees the Hosts' path to consciousness not unlike the evolution of a child's mental faculties. Hosts that access the reveries without unlocking the maze will never know true consciousness, only the confusion of a scared child.

So the picture doesn't look like anything to Dolores because she hasn't completed the maze and she's also not self-aware.

Abernathy became self-aware without ever establishing his own consciousness so he's effectively crazy, as he now can differentiate from the the lines of code pulling him onto his loops but he doesn't have the tools to understand that he also can have a voice.

[DMC]

29 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

The other significant quote, which we see Dolores repeat this season, is her oft repeated line to Teddy: There is a path for everyone and my path is bound with yours. I wonder if that's true or a red herring. We saw a dead Teddy in the water, has Dolores escaped that fate and escaped the park?

I do think it's interesting in episode 2.3 Dolores basically cries to Teddy 'you're all I have left' after seeing her father in robot dementia.  Especially once she loses Teddy, does that mean she loses the Dolores dynamic and becomes full Wyatt?  Because the former seems to be her better angels at the moment.

32 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Why script such conversations when no humans are around?

Watch the second episode (1.2 "Chestnut)!  It's a way of practicing.

[dbunting]

21 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

Abernathy is obviously gaining consciousness and turning to Shakespeare to find the words for the fact that he can't cope with his change. We discussed last season what the significance was of the picture - he can see it but Dolores, right on the verge of her elevation, cannot yet see the picture, just like Bernard could not see the door. And Walter talked about Arnold not being killed this time. I guess the hosts that cannot deal with an elevated consciousness go mad?

 

So, who "taught" Shakespeare to Abernathy and why? Was this maybe a previous world that he was a host in? Ford is the obvious choice for who, I guess the why is the only real question.

[James Arryn]

If they win it’ll go down as calm, but the Rockets are playing so casual and low-energy tonight, it’s frustrating to watch. 

[dbunting]

2 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

If they win it’ll go down as calm, but the Rockets are playing so casual and low-energy tonight, it’s frustrating to watch. 

Too many open threads at one time fella!

[James Arryn]

2 minutes ago, dbunting said:

Too many open threads at one time fella!

Thanks. Weirdest part, i’ve Literally never looked in this thread before.

[Jace, Extat]

1 hour ago, dbunting said:

So, who "taught" Shakespeare to Abernathy and why? Was this maybe a previous world that he was a host in? Ford is the obvious choice for who, I guess the why is the only real question.

He used to be a teacher and I think a cannibal in a previous build.

[Fragile Bird]

Abernathy had been ‘the Professor’and a cannibal.

[dbunting]

2 hours ago, Pony Empress Jace said:

He used to be a teacher and I think a cannibal in a previous build.

 

2 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

Abernathy had been ‘the Professor’and a cannibal.

Ok, that makes sense then. So...a cannibal? Like a serial killer type cannibal? He doesn't exactly look the part of the only real cannibals I remember hearing about in school.

[Jace, Extat]

4 minutes ago, dbunting said:

 

Ok, that makes sense then. So...a cannibal? Like a serial killer type cannibal? He doesn't exactly look the part of the only real cannibals I remember hearing about in school.

Right at the beginning of the season when he breaks (ep 1 or 2) and Narrative is trying to diagnose him, he's sitting on the stool muttering and he says "These violent delights have violent ends".

At which point I think Elsie Hughes says "where did he learn Shakespear?" after Ford places the quote and I'm pretty sure it's Bernard who says "He used to be the Professor, part of the Dark Dinner Scenario."

I'm like 100% sure that's not what the story line was actually called, but someone elaborates that he was like a Poe figure in that build and tried to take guests into his cult.

[dbunting]

6 minutes ago, Pony Empress Jace said:

Right at the beginning of the season when he breaks (ep 1 or 2) and Narrative is trying to diagnose him, he's sitting on the stool muttering and he says "These violent delights have violent ends".

At which point I think Elsie Hughes says "where did he learn Shakespear?" after Ford places the quote and I'm pretty sure it's Bernard who says "He used to be the Professor, part of the Dark Dinner Scenario."

I'm like 100% sure that's not what the story line was actually called, but someone elaborates that he was like a Poe figure in that build and tried to take guests into his cult.

Nice, thanks for the details!

[DMC]

23 minutes ago, Pony Empress Jace said:

At which point I think Elsie Hughes says "where did he learn Shakespear?" after Ford places the quote and I'm pretty sure it's Bernard who says "He used to be the Professor, part of the Dark Dinner Scenario."

It was called the Dinner Party.  And Elsie wasn't there, it was just Ford, Bernard, and Theresa runs in when Abernathy is apparently (but I'm sure he could've stopped it if he wanted to) physically hostile towards Ford.  All that Ford offers is that "He was leader of a group of cultists out in the desert who turned cannibal."  After that, Ford begins what I quoted in the first of my posts in this thread - "He liked to quote Shakespeare..."