Rickon lives - Jon as regent

[Lady Winter Rose]

No matter what Robb said in the will (which is at non disclosed location) Jon can't become King while Rickon lives. I'm pretty sure Bran is stuck in cave and he became a tree - he's to be presumed dead.

I can easily imagined Jon acting as regent to Rickon or just saving a spot for Bran until search for him become futile.

 

What do you think?

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

I don't think Rickon will live very long after becoming Lord of WF/KitN. As he is a shaggy dog story; as per his wolfs name.  And that the person who'll be his regent is Sansa not Jon. 

Jon isn't leaving the wall until the wall falls imo. He's too dedicated to his role there as LC. He might visit WF (Yes I think he will) but I don't see him residing there before the need to fall back becomes a necessity.   

Bran I think will leave the cave but not for some time yet. 

Sansa; Sansa has the desire to go north and to be back in WF. She also has an army who are well placed to get her there and a man with power and resources who she is learning to manipulate. LF has a great need to feel powerful and important, it's his second biggest weakness after Sansa. And WF being available via her is too big a prize for him to resist. 

So when WF becomes available it won't take much effort on her part to persuade him go north because she has a legitimate right to live there and it would be easy to walk right in and take over. 

How will WF become available? Why because Stannis will win the battle of the Ice. 

But won't Stannis hold the castle then, yes he will but it is foreshadowed in TWOIAF and TsotD that he will die of wounds sustained during it. 

TWOIAF- The Stormlands: House Baratheon.

Quote

When Walter Wyl was delivered into his hand, wounded but alive, Lord Orys said, "Your father took my hand. I claim yours as repayment." So saying, he hacked off Lord Walter's sword hand. Then he took his other hand, and both his feet as well, calling them his "usury." Strange to say, Lord Baratheon died on the march back to Storm's End, of the wounds he himself had taken during the battle, but his son Davos always said he died content, smiling at the rotting hands and feet that dangled in his tent like a string of onions.

TSotD isn't on A search of ice and fire yet but the quote pertains to the same events. 

So Baratheon, Davos, Onions, Dies of wounds. 

I think this tells us that Stannis will defeat the Freys (Walter/Walder.) and Boltons and die once he's in WF.  Davos is charged with returning Rickon to Manderley who will then no doubt install the boy at WF Sansa will hear the news in the vale and manipulate LF into abandoning the HtH plot and marching/sailing North to claim her place as his regent. 

Once arrived Jon marches south to meet with her and see Rickon as he will also have heard the news and there Sansa learns whatever Jeyne Poole is going to impart to Jon once she arrives at the wall earlier in TWOW. Something that gets LF killed after Sansa has him arrested no doubt. Jeyne has been in his brothels and he has committed heinous crimes against her. She also might have heard about LF's other scheming and plotting whilst there even his role in Neds death. 

Sansa has LF's head put on a spike fulfilling her prophesy re giants and snow castles. Jon returns to the wall to continue LC'ering and Sansa assumes her role as regent until Rickon carps it from a winter chill or whatever. I think he's just a boy shaped shield for her to rule behind for the interim that the plot requires her to do so. 

Once the shit fully hits the fan the NW fall back to WF and  Jon assumes control in a way that doesn't step on her toes too much. Bran shows up and scares the shit out of everyone. 

 

[Lost Melnibonean]

2 hours ago, Lady Winter Rose said:

No matter what Robb said in the will (which is at non disclosed location) Jon can't become King while Rickon lives. I'm pretty sure Bran is stuck in cave and he became a tree - he's to be presumed dead.

I can easily imagined Jon acting as regent to Rickon or just saving a spot for Bran until search for him become futile.

What do you think?

A lot depends on the wording of the document, which I believe is actually a royal proclamation rather than a will. If it says something like, "My fellow trueborn sons of Eddard of House Stark, Brandon and Rickon, have been murdered by Theon of House Greyjoy...," the document would rely on a mistake of fact that could nullify the relevant portion on of the document, or the entire document, depending on the legal precedent. 

[ToysoldierXIII]

43 minutes ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

Snip

 

Definitely won't be Sansa. The book version of the BotB and Rickon's return will be early in Winter and Sansa JUST started a new Vale arc - she won't be back in WF until Spring. Plus she was disenherited AND is still a Lannister.

Jon was just deposed as LC plus Robb and Stan the man want him there so he is definitely the Vegas favorite.

Now a regent doesn't have to be blood or an heir so Wyman and other North loyalists or even Osha (as the only person who can kinda control Rick) are possibilities as well.

Even if/when Bran and Arya return their greater purposes will make them turn down the throne or regency.

[Lollygag]

The Manderlys won't accept Jon as regent. While loyal to the Starks, they've quite a history of wanting to move upwards. I expect they'll reject Jon as regent due to his vows (though I think Jon will be moved away from the Wall by someone while unconscious/dead whatever so it may not even be an option). Manderly betroths Wylla to Rickon like Marg/Tommen and Manderly becomes regent.

There's some pretty dark stuff around Rickon, so not sure any of this would come about but I do think that this is their plan.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

1 hour ago, ToysoldierXIII said:

Definitely won't be Sansa. The book version of the BotB and Rickon's return will be early in Winter and Sansa JUST started a new Vale arc - she won't be back in WF until Spring. Plus she was disenherited AND is still a Lannister.

Jon was just deposed as LC plus Robb and Stan the man want him there so he is definitely the Vegas favorite.

Now a regent doesn't have to be blood or an heir so Wyman and other North loyalists or even Osha (as the only person who can kinda control Rick) are possibilities as well.

Even if/when Bran and Arya return their greater purposes will make them turn down the throne or regency.

Oh yeah totally sorry I'll just scuttle back to my corner thanks for correcting me 

Clue there will be no Battle of the Bastards in the books. Stannis will defeat the Boltons/Freys and Manderly et al will mop it all up. 

Jon can't head south to WF till after he has recovered. He's not automatically going to be resurrected by Mel.Don't assume things will go that way.  Meaning he may be out of action for a good part of the book. 

Jon is not deposed he was attacked mutinously and he has far more loyal to him at the wall, the wildlings greatly outnumber the old NW men of which only a handfull were disloyal. 

 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

52 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

The Manderlys won't accept Jon as regent. While loyal to the Starks, they've quite a history of wanting to move upwards. I expect they'll reject Jon as regent due to his vows (though I think Jon will be moved away from the Wall by someone while unconscious/dead whatever so it may not even be an option). Manderly betroths Wylla to Rickon like Marg/Tommen and Manderly becomes regent.

There's some pretty dark stuff around Rickon, so not sure any of this would come about but I do think that this is their plan.

I agree that is his plan. But I don't think things will go as smoothly as he thinks.  Rickon is a wildcard in terms of what he's going to be like when he returns from Skaagos. 

[Kandrax]

2 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

Sansa

There is a one big problem with this. In order to be regent to someone, you need to be at least 16 years old. Sansa is currently 14 years old. If anyone become Rickon's regent, it would be Wyman.

[Lost Melnibonean]

1 hour ago, ToysoldierXIII said:

Definitely won't be Sansa. The book version of the BotB and Rickon's return will be early in Winter and Sansa JUST started a new Vale arc - she won't be back in WF until Spring. Plus she was disenherited AND is still a Lannister.

Jon was just deposed as LC plus Robb and Stan the man want him there so he is definitely the Vegas favorite.

All we know for sure is that several brothers allied with Bowen Marsh attempted to assassinate Jon. Whether they succeeded and whether the Night's Watch will elect a new Lord Commander, or even continue to exist, remains to be seen. 

1 hour ago, ToysoldierXIII said:

Now a regent doesn't have to be blood or an heir so Wyman and other North loyalists or even Osha (as the only person who can kinda control Rick) are possibilities as well.

The Lord of White Harbor should be the favorite to act as Rickon's regent if Rickon survives and is named Lord of Winterfell. As Renly advised Eddard, "He who holds the king holds the kingdom." 

1 hour ago, ToysoldierXIII said:

Even if/when Bran and Arya return their greater purposes will make them turn down the throne or regency.

We'll have to see what happens next. If Rickon is named Lord of Winterfell, it will likely happen in the aftermath of the so-called battle of ice, and after the Boltons and Freys are evicted from the castle. I don't see Bran or Arya arriving at Winterfell in that time frame. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

31 minutes ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

Oh yeah totally sorry I'll just scuttle back to my corner thanks for correcting me 

Clue there will be no Battle of the Bastards in the books. Stannis will defeat the Boltons/Freys and Manderly et al will mop it all up. 

Jon is not deposed he was attacked mutinously and he has far more loyal to him at the wall, the wildlings greatly outnumber the old NW men of which only a handfull were disloyal. 

Thanks. I didn't even know what BotB was. Stannis must have a role after the rule of Winterfell is decided, otherwise the Iron Bank's backing was completely unnecessary. 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

31 minutes ago, Kandrax said:

There is a one big problem with this. In order to be regent to someone, you need to be at least 16 years old. Sansa is currently 14 years old. If anyone become Rickon's regent, it would be Wyman.

Fair point well made. 

But I do think it will be her who takes over WF. TBH things get a bit blurred with women who have flowered/been married. Their adult status isn't as clear cut as mens.  It might be that Wyman gets to be Rickons regent and Sansa only returns after Rickon too is dead. Or Wyman might be dead, making it harder for anyone to assert their authority and prevent her. He had his throat cut at the end of ADWD right. 

Robb is under 16 when he is declared KitN too so we do know that sometimes children who are close to their majority are given leeway. After Joffrey marries Marge he is expected to be ruling in his own right too without his mother as regent. That is the assumption made in the books. And part of why Cersei is so pissed off. 

It isn't like in our world where we have clear cut laws around age related stuff. A 15 year old here living alone would be illegal. In westeros they'd say huh you're nearly 16 and we think you're capable enough. Or not depending on the kid and the situation. 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

47 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Thanks. I didn't even know what BotB was. Stannis must have a role after the rule of Winterfell is decided, otherwise the Iron Bank's backing was completely unnecessary. 

That's a good point. The Iron Banks backing of Stannis? I'm trying to recall the deal he made with Tycho? and how it might effect things. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

5 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

That's a good point. The Iron Banks backing of Stannis? I'm trying to recall the deal he made with Tycho? and how it might effect things. 

It's in Theon, Winds. 

Spoiler

Stannis agrees to repay the loans that Cersei reneged, so Tycho promises to support him. Stannis send Just Massey with Tycho back to Braavos to collect the coin necessary to hire as many sellswords as Stannis might need. 

There is no need for that if Stannis going to die at Winterfell. 

[Bitterblooms]

Side note: could the name Shaggydog just refer to the craft that we have seven books of political machinations that Will amount to very little once the zombie apocalypse arrives in the South? Instead of referring to Rickon specifically, could it be pointing to the futility of the plans and plots of the characters for power? 

As for the OP, it seems within the realm of possibility. Or maybe Rickon is Warden while Jon is martyred or becomes king of the Iron Throne. (I know, I know, some people hate that idea.) Maybe Rickon becomes Lord of Winterfell and Jon  takes up a seat at the Nightfort or something as king in the North. In any case, it's hard for me to picture Jon completely supplanting Bran and Rickon once he knows they are alive; he does struggle with jealousy and wanting to be Lord of Winterfell (understandably) but each time his better side wins out. 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

10 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

It's in Theon, Winds. 

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Stannis agrees to repay the loans that Cersei reneged, so Tycho promises to support him. Stannis send Just Massey with Tycho back to Braavos to collect the coin necessary to hire as many sellswords as Stannis might need. 

There is no need for that if Stannis going to die at Winterfell. 

Thanks. Hmm, well we don't know what the IB's response to having the one person who agreed to pay the crowns debts die would be. 

Or maybe Stannis's death comes later after a different battle? But I do think the bit about Orys dying is foreshadowing and that he won't see TWOW out. 

[HexMachina]

2 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

Thanks. Hmm, well we don't know what the IB's response to having the one person who agreed to pay the crowns debts die would be. 

Or maybe Stannis's death comes later after a different battle? But I do think the bit about Orys dying is foreshadowing and that he won't see TWOW out. 

he also names Shireen his heir and commands Massey to continue the fight in he name should he die, so assuming the IB knows it’s business (which, yeah they clearly do) the obligation to pay the Throne’s debts would also bind her

[Dorian Martell's son]

On 5/8/2018 at 2:38 AM, Lady Winter Rose said:

No matter what Robb said in the will (which is at non disclosed location) Jon can't become King while Rickon lives. I'm pretty sure Bran is stuck in cave and he became a tree - he's to be presumed dead.

I can easily imagined Jon acting as regent to Rickon or just saving a spot for Bran until search for him become futile.

What do you think?

Who says Jon will survive his wounds? 

[Lost Melnibonean]

10 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

Thanks. Hmm, well we don't know what the IB's response to having the one person who agreed to pay the crowns debts die would be. 

Or maybe Stannis's death comes later after a different battle? But I do think the bit about Orys dying is foreshadowing and that he won't see TWOW out. 

All men must die, but the lie that is the Blue eyed king that casts no shadow will be slain by the Mother of Dragons and her wee bairn...

Quote

"I know the cost! Last night, gazing into that hearth, I saw things in the flames as well. I saw a king, a crown of fire on his brows, burning . . . burning, Davos. His own crown consumed his flesh and turned him into ash. Do you think I need Melisandre to tell me what that means? Or you?"

Davos V, Storm 54

[Lost Melnibonean]

8 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

 

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he also names Shireen his heir and commands Massey to continue the fight in he name should he die, so assuming the IB knows it’s business (which, yeah they clearly do) the obligation to pay the Throne’s debts would also bind her

C'mon now, it's no use holding the door open for theories

Spoiler

the show runners gave up in virtual SSMs. We all know that Shireen will burn. 

 

[The Young Maester]

I always thought that once (if) Rickon was brought to Winterfell by Davos, and all of the Norths bannermen, including Stannis are there, then id see Rickon wanting to be King in da North just cuz hes brother was king, so him being a child would also want a crown. Once Rickon yells "I want to be King" in the halls of Winterfell, all hell will break loose. I bet Davos would be thinking what has he done.

This is just an assumption, i doubt this would happen cuz we dont know Rickons personality, but we can still get an idea of what he would be (Wild).