is the WoT series worth reading

[williamjm]

2 hours ago, Gronzag said:

People may have fond memories about WOT because they read it when they were younger and there was nothing better around, but if you have read anything that came out since (GRRM, Rothfuss, Abercrombie, Bakker, Sanderson), than reading WOT is likely going to be a torture.

I had read A Game of Thrones and A Clash of Kings before I'd started reading WOT (although the other authors you mention hadn't been published yet). I didn't think it was as good as ASOIAF, but I still enjoyed it despite its flaws. In terms of quality it could be horribly inconsistent, but I think its best moments do stand up well against other recent authors.

[eac]

37 minutes ago, Yukle said:

Having not read the books, I can still offer general advice: the books series was published until its conclusion. Obviously some people consider it worth reading or every copy would still be on a shelf.

I say see if you can find a copy in an op shop somewhere, or borrow it from a library. Then, if you like it, buy the next one and read it. If you don't, no harm done.

Yeah I think the library route will probably be best. That way if I end up not digging it, there's no money lost on it. I know for sure my local library has copies of the full series, so it's easily available to me that way.

[Mladen]

31 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

Also, without Jordan this Forum would not exist.

OK... Care to elaborate?

[Darth Richard II]

17 minutes ago, Risto said:

OK... Care to elaborate?

Jordon's blurb on the paperback of AGoT is credited as being a big part of its success. GRRM has said so many times. Also not even sure if the SFF publishing industry would be 1/4th as big as it is now without WoT.

[Yukle]

4 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

Jordon's blurb on the paperback of AGoT is credited as being a big part of its success. GRRM has said so many times. Also not even sure if the SFF publishing industry would be 1/4th as big as it is now without WoT.

Wow - I just looked it up: 80 million copies printed, the biggest fantasy success since LOTR. Not bad.

Also, thematically from the synopses I've been reading it seems to have much in common with the mythologies surrounding the cyclical nature of time, as found in Hindu and Buddhist traditions. Does it do these well? Or is it Orientalism?

[Errant Bard]

6 hours ago, Werthead said:

Jordan is more old-skool and he has a whole metric ton of flaws (like almost a quarter of the series being filler), but the story, the world and the thematic elements still hold up reasonably well.

 

I know I said to Read And Find Out earlier, but if we go down the criticism path, the flaws should not be swept under the rug like this, they were absolutly crippling for me.

 

So: Indeed, the world building is nice, the prose flows well, the story has a spine and interesting elements, and Jordan did indeed kickstart the publishers taste for huge epic fantasy stories but everything that's not listed here is a flaw.

Fillers are not the main drag, as I see it: GRRM is worse (even publishing volume 1 of a bloody prequel soon, it seems) and people still lap it up, I see it becoming a crippling flaw only if you love the story first... I loathed it before that.

What did it for me was the characters and character interactions. Books 1-6 may be tight story-wise but they feature the same dumb, bitchy, one dimensional, one trick characters as the rest. It may be worse than reading Eddings, as the interactions themselves feel a simplification of a superficial glance at a kindergarten recess.

There is also the sexism (I guess that's what Wert references with "old school". That's the equivalent of "he was a man of his time" I guess) pervading the whole story, and actually at the core of everything: women are like this, men like that, period.

Then there is the bullshit contrivance of the "T'averen": it's a codeword to wave away anything that has no reason to happen, cannot be explained but still needs to happen. The author stopped trying to make a believable chain of events/motivations to push his pawns where the story required, instead he said "that's protagonist destiny, suspend your disbelief".

 

That said, everything has flaws and if you can withstand sexism and cardboard character with insufferably badly written interactions featuring in a railroaded story, this might be a better read than Erikson or Sanderson.

[Darth Richard II]

So you don't like it much then.

[Errant Bard]

It's not harmful to read and find out if you like it, for monuments like WoT (lotr, gormenghast, asoiaf...) but I found out that the flaws weighted heavier than the virtues in my experience, sure. A lot of other people love it, certainly way more than those who love Bakker, for example.

[Loge]

Robert Jordan fell ill and died before he could complete the WoT. His wife and the publisher hired Brandon Sanderson to finish the series but his books leave a lot to be desired. Of course, Jordan's books already had some flaws. Like some other author that seems to be popular on this board, he started a lot of parallel plot threads and as a result the story moves rather slowly. And most of these plot threads never got resolved because Sanderson either didn't care or didn't notice. Maybe you could read it halfway through and then drop it, but I don't think that would be very satisfying.

[A True Kaniggit]

You know what? You should probably just read it to be on the safe side. If you like it, then you get to read an enjoyable series. If you don't like it, then you can always go onto the internet and warn other people to not read it, thus making your reading of it not a complete waste of time.

Seems like a win-win to me.

[baxus]

Whoever is thinking of starting WoT, should get the first book and try it. If you like it, get the second one. If you like that, go for the third one etc.

The same as for any series, I guess.

 

For me, it is that he is more dynamic. It is not that his prose is far superior to Jordan's, it is more of the rhythm in his books. The chapters are shorter, there are not as much procrastination as in Jordan's volumes. Jordan can feel aimless, while I never get that from Sanderson. 

For me, it is that I can read Sanderson's books and I couldn't manage to read Jordan's.

I mean, reading through 500 pages and the only character "story arc" you get for it is "oh, this guy has yellow eyes now" was too much for me.

Say what you want about Sanderson but SOMETHING happens in his books. 

 

I gave up on Oathbringer and the Stormlight series as a whole. I decided this series was taking too much of my time, and it just wasn't worth it slogging through that prose. To be fair, I don't think, nowadays, I would have the time to read WoT either. Sanderson's main strength is in his imagination to create interesting magic systems and worlds.

Bolded part is 100% accurate. I just love learning more about the worlds and magic in Sanderson's books.

Not saying he's the best author out there, not by a long shot, but he is one of authors whose books I enjoy reading most.

That being said, there's no denying that Oathbringer could've used a pretty substantial trimming and would've been the better book for it.

[Rippounet]

WoT is waaay too long. Very little happens in some of the books, which makes it a costly investment timewise.
The first book was laughingly conventional. I remember thinking that it seemed like a young author had decided to write a pale copy of Tolkien's Lord of the Rings for children or teenagers. Even the blatant sexism somehow seemed suitable, as it reminded me of the jokes boys make of girls in elementary school.
I still liked it somehow. For al its flaws, after having read through so many books I had grown attached to the characters. And the world building turned out to be impressive.

[Darth Richard II]

To be fair I think some of the flaws of the last books are not complete Sanderson fault. He was completely beholden to the, em, editing team, and they made some wacky decisions.

[Gronzag]

Every WOT character is a Mary/Gary Sue on pair with Kvothe. Males are all handsome and super manly, and every girl is the most powerful, most talented and prettiest ever, ever, ever, E-V-E-R!!! to live. Of course, every one of them also has a super special origin, not to mention super special ability that goes with it. Because how do you go about fighting evil if you are not a royalty or descendant of proud and honorable group that defeated that same evil 2000 years ago? How?

[Errant Bard]

 

Because how do you go about fighting evil if you are not a royalty or descendant of proud and honorable group that defeated that same evil 2000 years ago? How?

Yeah, funny how a basically nazi ideology has been left unquestioned for decades as it consistently was at the core of the biggest selling fantasies (races, degeneration, chosen people, destiny, etc.)

I suppose publishers kinda balk at proletarian heroes... too communist or something. It's less prevalent nowadays, but the trope isn't dead at all this being said: if you're a Fantasy hero, you're probably the hidden heir of an 8 gazillion years old bloodline, and you probably get some ubermensch/racial perk (magic, magical pet, ancestral weapon, tyrant's destiny, etc.)

[Mladen]

 

Wow - I just looked it up: 80 million copies printed, the biggest fantasy success since LOTR. Not bad.

Yes, but don't forget... 80 millions divided by 15 books  WoT has 14 sequels and 1 prequel.

 

Jordon's blurb on the paperback of AGoT is credited as being a big part of its success. GRRM has said so many times. Also not even sure if the SFF publishing industry would be 1/4th as big as it is now without WoT.

I don't think anyone here is denying him success or the impact he had on the fantasy fandom. But the thing is that his books nowadays seem outdated. GRRM may not have started as successful as Jordan, and perhaps he may have never been as sold as Jordan have been without HBO's adaptation, but his book series is very much relevant to today's reader. WoT simply isn't. 

[Rhom]

 

The final WoT book could have been about 200 pages, so I find anyone saying Sanderson had better pacing then Jordan to be hilarious.

I can’t agree with that.  There was entirely too much left hanging.  Jordan would have needed 6 books minimum to finish unless he ditched his wife as “editor.”

The Gathering Storm was a marvelous book and a ray of hope in the dark and dingy endless tunnel Jordan had degraded into.  

Unfortuantely, we were later to discover that TGS’ tight thematic narrative came at the expense of Sanderson’s second book.  (I have gone blank... was it Towers of Midnight?)

I am eternally grateful that Sanderson finished the series and begrudge the man nothing.*  I started reading a few months before Winter’s Heart came out, so I remember well the awful waits followed by disappointment that Pat describes.

*I begrudge him nothing regarding WoT... I definitely am holding a grudge against him for Oathbringer.  Sanderson writes incredibly enjoyable 300-400 page books like Mistborn and the other standalones.  Doorstoppers are not something he should engage in.

[End of Disc One]

I actually agree that the final WoT book could have been shortened significantly.  A good chunk of the book was just Trollocs and more Trollocs.  But I thought the other 2 Sanderson books were excellent.  I was always confused by Pat's dislike of these and how he could think they're filler, but our opinions diverge quite a bit.

[Darth Richard II]

I love the first and second Sanderson books, but the third, like said up thread, is 900 pages of trollocs getting hit int he head with swords.

A lot of the pacing issues had to do with Tor/Harriet wanting a book out before Sanderson finished. so they put all the good stuff in 12 and 13.

(If I recall, a lot of the Tower parts, if not all, were actually written by Jordon.)

 

[Lord Patrek]

 

I was always confused by Pat's dislike of these and how he could think they're filler, but our opinions diverge quite a bit.

How dare you disagree with my opinion???

Rhom, you came into WoT quite late then. I started reading around the time The Dragon Reborn was released. Given how long GRRM and Rothfuss have made us wait for sequels, I now feel a bit stupid for complaining so much on wotmania.com and other SFF message boards when RJ took 2-3 years to publish the next WoT volume. . . :/

Fandom would actually kill to have these two release books every 2-3 years or so. . .