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The plot twist is that Mance Rayder is Rhaegar Targaryen. They both like playing harps. Some other dude was wearing his armor on the trident while he was taking the black for, uh, reasons.

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Just now, Talking Hodor said:

The plot twist is that Mance Rayder is Rhaegar Targaryen. They both like playing harps. Some other dude was wearing his armor on the trident while he was taking the black for, uh, reasons.

Only if Rhaegar got a full face and scalp (w/ hair) transplant. :eek:

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23 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Only if Rhaegar got a full face and scalp (w/ hair) transplant. :eek:

He dies it with excrement from Craster's keep. It is known.

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The twist has likely been abandoned

GRRM Time interview - 2017-07-13

Quote

Characters rise up and seem more important, and you get to what you’d thought was going to be a big turning point and… the thing you’d thought about two years ago doesn’t really work as well, so you have a better idea!

So he apparently changed his mind. Again.

Edited by Ibbison from Ibben

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Kind of off-topic, but as you wrote "WoW" in the title instead of "TWOW" - could GRRM be nodding to W orld O f W arcraft indeed?

Just a casual reference with that title?

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On ‎10‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 9:18 PM, Umber Jack said:

Kind of off-topic, but as you wrote "WoW" in the title instead of "TWOW" - could GRRM be nodding to W orld O f W arcraft indeed?

Just a casual reference with that title?

How? The title comes from the early 90´s.

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I believe the twist is either Barristan, Mance, or Doran.  I personally think it’s Barristan and he will betray/defect from Dany to (f)Aegon because Septa Lemore will reveal herself to be Ashara Dayne.  He will believe that Young Griff is truly Rhaegar’s son and the rightful heir to the throne.  What if Young Griff is actually the son of Ashara & Aerys (through rape at Harrenhal Tourney) or he actually is the son of Ashara & Rhaegar?  

In the latter scenario, Rhaegar, Elia, and Ashara all agreed that since Elia could no longer bare children, that Ashara would serve as a sort of surrogate or even a second wife for Rhaegar.  They got it on at the tourney and she got pregnant. The goal was for Rhaegar to crown her Queen of Love and Beauty afterwards and maybe announce her as his 2nd wife but some mysterious Knight of the Laughing Tree showed up, kicked some ass, and mesmerized Rhaegar.  Once he found out that knight was Lyanna he fell in love and realized she was the key to the Prince That was Promised prophecy.  Their son would be the Song of Ice(Stark) and Fire(Targaryen).  So he “dishonored” Ashara by getting the goodies and not crowning her but instead crowning Lyanna...  In fact, it’s very possible that the original baby Aegon was Ashara & Rhaegar’s as well because Elia actually had the stillborn daughter while Ashara had a healthy baby boy and they swapped.

So, once Ned arrives at Starfall with Dawn, Ashara would have lost her best friend Elia, closest brother Arthur, & her actual son Baby Aegon (when the Mountain murdered Elia and the children).  So she agrees to take her other son conceived by Rhaegar or Aerys at Harrenhal and flees to Essos.  There she meets Illyrio, becomes Septa Lemore, teams up with Jon Con and they start grooming (f)Aegon for his return to Westeros.  Barry will choose them over Dany.  Plus once Jon Con checks out from Greyscale or dies, GRRM will need another POV with (f)Aegon unless Arianne is that POV.

Edited by Smoke317

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I think the twist is either revolving around the characters in Essos or the characters in the Dorne-Stormlands-King's Landing triangle. If it's Dorne-Stormlands-King's Landing, I think Princess Myrcella is the source of the twist. That's something that would blow people's minds.

If it taking place in Essos, it can be literally anyone. And I mean anyone.

On 10/31/2018 at 3:08 AM, Smoke317 said:

thur, & her actual son Baby Aegon (when the Mountain murdered Elia and the children).  So she agrees to take her other son conceived by Rhaegar or Aerys at Harrenhal and flees to Essos.  There she meets Illyrio, becomes Septa Lemore, teams up with Jon Con and they start grooming (f)Aegon for his return to Westeros.  Barry will choose them over Dany.  Plus once Jon Con checks out from Greyscale or dies, GRRM will need another POV with (f)Aegon unless Arianne is that POV.

I am 98% sure that Arianne will be that POV. She will either end up marrying Aegon, becoming a powerful member of the Small Council or both.

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1 hour ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

If it taking place in Essos, it can be literally anyone. And I mean anyone.

Sure, as long as it is anyone the abomination killed off but is alive in the books. 

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12 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Sure, as long as it is anyone the abomination killed off but is alive in the books. 

Well, the abomination as you like to refer to them, killed off a buttload of characters in Essos.

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1 hour ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Well, the abomination as you like to refer to them, killed off a buttload of characters in Essos.

My point was that Martin said this twist involves a character the abomination - and yes, that's what I like to call that thing; what else would I call it? :lol: - killed off but is alive in the books. So, really, I  was just repeating what Martin himself said about the twist. 

Edited by kissdbyfire

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See Ilyn (the former headsman) perhaps? 

Honestly we don't have much idea what he's thinking,who he's really loyal to etc.

heck maybe his tongue was really taken out because he might say something

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On 5/16/2018 at 2:29 AM, Lemorecake said:

Didn't George also complain the show did not mention the other Tyrell kids, cause they will be important in further stories?

This +100000

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I'm not sure how old this interview actually is, but the video was published today. Anyway, he's decided to do this twist. (for now)

 

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On 11/7/2018 at 5:37 PM, kissdbyfire said:

My point was that Martin said this twist involves a character the abomination - and yes, that's what I like to call that thing; what else would I call it? :lol: - killed off but is alive in the books. So, really, I  was just repeating what Martin himself said about the twist. 

 

1 hour ago, Corvinus said:

I'm not sure how old this interview actually is, but the video was published today. Anyway, he's decided to do this twist. (for now)

 

For the record, I still think the twist revolves around Myrcella.

It's either her, Mance Rayder, Catelyn, Ser Barristan or Stannis Baratheon.

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6 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

 

For the record, I still think the twist revolves around Myrcella.

It's either her, Mance Rayder, Catelyn, Ser Barristan or Stannis Baratheon.

Agree on all as possibilities but Catelyn. But I tend to think it’s either Stannis or ser Barry, and if I had to pick one I’d go with Barristan. 

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On 11/7/2018 at 11:37 PM, kissdbyfire said:

My point was that Martin said this twist involves a character the abomination - and yes, that's what I like to call that thing; what else would I call it? :lol: - killed off but is alive in the books. So, really, I  was just repeating what Martin himself said about the twist. 

I don't think that was what he said specifically if I remember correctly - when he first talked about it he talked about a twist he had never thought of before which would work very fine in light of how things had developed so far. But that this was something the show could and would not do because he never told them about it before, being a new thing he came up with it.

He didn't confirmed it involved a character the show had already killed at the time. Unless he talked about this later on in more detail (which I'm not aware of).

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I apologize if anyone else has already mentioned this - I haven't read through all the posts yet, but I've had this theory for a long time - ever since my first read through of the series. It has to do with Brienne and Stannis.

At the end of our story we're left with Brienne's capture by Lady Stoneheart. GRRM has already confirmed that her choice between noose and sword is "sword", but I think she will actually yell out "STANNIS!". GRRM has already set this up:

Quote

A Clash of Kings - Catelyn V

Perhaps I did not want to be the only one who knew the dark truth of what had happened there, Catelyn thought. "Brienne, I have taken many wellborn ladies into my service over the years, but never one like you. I am no battle commander."

"No, but you have courage. Not battle courage perhaps but . . . I don't know . . . a kind of woman's courage. And I think, when the time comes, you will not try and hold me back. Promise me that. That you will not hold me back from Stannis."

Catelyn could still hear Stannis saying that Robb's turn too would come in time. It was like a cold breath on the back of her neck. "When the time comes, I will not hold you back."

Lady Stoneheart may have her own agenda killing Freys and whatnot, but she will remember the oath that she made to Brienne and allow her to go after Stannis and kill him.

Edited by Feather Crystal

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