Here's Looking At You, Kid Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Randyll Tarly gets a lot of hate because he forced his first born son to take the black. Jon Arryn is getting a lot of criticism because he wants to send Robert off to foster. Before we judge them as fathers we first need to judge them as lords. A lord's first obligation is to his peasants. These are the people who prop up and support the nobility. Family and children come second. Randyll had to put aside his love for Samwell because the land needs a strong leader. Samwell is a sweet kid but he's not leadership material. Forcing Sam to give up his claim is better for the land and the people working that land. Randyll can't afford to think like a father. He had to act like a lord. Jon Arryn had a duty to make sure his successor is a man who can lead. The warden of the east is a person who commands respect. Fostering Robert could kill him but it was necessary. Momma's Boy can't hide behind mother's skirts forever. The welfare of the workers and the land come first. Things like happiness and love come after. Can you name another controversial father who capably prepares his son for leadership? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 5 minutes ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said: Randyll had to put aside his love for Samwell because the land needs a strong leader. Randyll's love for Sam? Really? I think we may have read different books... AGoT, Jon IV Finally, after three girls in as many years, Lady Tarly gave her lord husband a second son. From that day, Lord Randyll ignored Sam, devoting all his time to the younger boy, a fierce, robust child more to his liking. Samwell had known several years of sweet peace with his music and his books. Until the dawn of his fifteenth name day, when he had been awakened to find his horse saddled and ready. Three men-at-arms had escorted him into a wood near Horn Hill, where his father was skinning a deer. "You are almost a man grown now, and my heir," Lord Randyll Tarly had told his eldest son, his long knife laying bare the carcass as he spoke. "You have given me no cause to disown you, but neither will I allow you to inherit the land and title that should be Dickon's. Heartsbane must go to a man strong enough to wield her, and you are not worthy to touch her hilt. So I have decided that you shall this day announce that you wish to take the black. You will forsake all claim to your brother's inheritance and start north before evenfall. "If you do not, then on the morrow we shall have a hunt, and somewhere in these woods your horse will stumble, and you will be thrown from the saddle to die … or so I will tell your mother. She has a woman's heart and finds it in her to cherish even you, and I have no wish to cause her pain. Please do not imagine that it will truly be that easy, should you think to defy me. Nothing would please me more than to hunt you down like the pig you are." His arms were red to the elbow as he laid the skinning knife aside. "So. There is your choice. The Night's Watch"—he reached inside the deer, ripped out its heart, and held it in his fist, red and dripping—"or this." Yes, truly heartwarming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Here's Looking At You, Kid Posted May 11, 2018 Author Share Posted May 11, 2018 Sam needed encouragement, else he would refuse to take the black. Randy had to get tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 I disagree vehemently. I mean, I get the need for a lord to have a strong heir and sucessor, but there are ways to achieve that that don't involve bullying your son w/ death threats. Death threats that I have no reason to doubt would have been carried out. Randyll is a total arsehole, a despicable human being. Remember Sam wanted to go to Oldtown to forge a chain and become a maester? And Randyll wouldn't let him b/c "Tarlys don't serve" or whatever. So, he really has no excuse, there were other options, and at least one of them was something that would have made Sam happy and ensured that Dickon inherited everything. But no, not good enough for Randyll, because he truly despises Sam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shameeka Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 If Randyll didn't want Sam as his heir he should have allowed Sam to become a maester, not bully him to the point where he has a trauma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
867-5309 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 5 hours ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said: Can you name another controversial father who capably prepares his son for leadership? Easily. Walder Frey. Ser Stevron was a fine man of courage and honor who valued his family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wall Flower Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Jon Arryn might have thought that Sweetrobin would benefit from fostering with Stannis but his primary reason for sending him to Dragonstone was to keep him safe when Jon made his move against Cersei and Jaime. Cersei wanted the kid fostered with Tywin so that he could be used as a hostage against his father. Jon cared about keeping his son safe. In contrast, Randyll didn't just bully Sam. He threatened to kill Sam and when Sam suggested joining the Citadel, Randyll chained him to a wall for three days. As Shameeka noted, Sam got permanent PTSD from this incident - which goes well beyond bullying into plain old-fashioned torture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sunland Lord Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Randyll is a major jerk. I genuinely think that things turned out for Sam the best they could for him. He is almost happy at the Wall. Randyll probably was going mad with Sam's behavior and Dickon being born is a blessing for Sam. That way he was released from his father's claws. If anyone noticed, in Dance of Dragons' Epilogue (I think) Lord Tarly says that the Kettleblacks should be sent to the Wall, where such scum belongs, while probably everyone in the Small Council knows what he did to his first born son. This was arguably one of the most jerky quotes from the series. He practically thinks his son belongs with this scum, and threatens to kill him if he doesn't go there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Well, at least Sam has something between his ears. Sweetrobin has nothing. Imagine if Jon sent him to Randyll Tarly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commentator Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 11 hours ago, 867-5309 said: Easily. Walder Frey. Ser Stevron was a fine man of courage and honor who valued his family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rondo Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 22 hours ago, shameeka said: If Randyll didn't want Sam as his heir he should have allowed Sam to become a maester, not bully him to the point where he has a trauma. Letting Sammy go to maester school is sensible to me. But Randy is a proud man who doesn't like his son in service. Walder Frey doesn't seem to mind though. One of his sons is a maester. Hypothetically, what if Sammy can't cut it as a maester and runs back home. Forcing him to go to the wall gets rid of Sammy forever. There is no escape clause in the fine print. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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