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House Targaryen, the First Family of ASOIAF

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A good portion of TWOIAF is devoted to the Targaryens.  GM's upcoming book is about the history of the Targaryens.  The main character of the current time period in the story is Daenerys Targaryen.  House Targaryen is the only member of the ruling class to survive the Doom of Valyria.   They are my favorite family.  The timely dream from Daenys and a father having faith in his daughter saved the family from doom.  I don't know if we will see a New Valyria but it is something I want to happen.  Dany will have control of a good portion of Essos if she can win over the Dothraki.  Volantis is practically hers for the taking.  A New Valyria built on a foundation of freedom instead of slavery.  I would like to see that happen.  Dany ruling in the East.  Aegon/Griff ruling in the West.  

Edited by 867-5309

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33 minutes ago, 867-5309 said:

Dany ruling in the East.  Aegon/Griff ruling in the West

Whatever Dany may do in Essos I still feel it's very important to her to ultimately take back Westeros. I don't see her giving up on her goal of taking back the Iron Throne just because someone is claiming the be Rhaegar's son using a Blackfyre army to get what she sees as her birthright.  Plus Westeros is where she needs to be in order to fight against the Others.

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2 hours ago, 867-5309 said:

New Valyria built on a foundation of freedom instead of slavery.  I would like to see that happen.  Dany ruling in the East. 

I think that chance for Valyria to be reborn are equal to chance that some drunken beggar become Pope.

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I think this would actually be the best outcome for Dany. Forgo the IT to someone else, and rule her own little empire. But I can't see it happening. She's too out of touch with Westeros to do a decent job of ruling the 7 kingdoms

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2 hours ago, 1000th Lord Commander said:

She's too out of touch with Westeros to do a decent job of ruling the 7 kingdoms

And so is everyone else rulling Westeros at this point. She isn't better or worse than anyone there, except maybe for Cersei, she is definitely better than Cersei.

 

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While I am excited about the upcoming Targaryen books, are they really the first family in the planetos? Brandon the Builder was the first Stark and I think his time was before Valyria.

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ASOIAF is the story of the Targaryens.  Yes, I too think they are meant to be the hero of this epic. 

3 hours ago, 1000th Lord Commander said:

I think this would actually be the best outcome for Dany. Forgo the IT to someone else, and rule her own little empire. But I can't see it happening. She's too out of touch with Westeros to do a decent job of ruling the 7 kingdoms

Stannis is out of touch with Westeros.  Damn, people who know him well don't want him to be their king.  Jon is even worse than Stannis.  Jon was out of touch with his own men and betrayed them.  He is clearly unsuited to rule. The best choice for Westeros is Dany, followed by Aegon.  Barristan and Jorah are both sold on Team Dany.  Benerro already thinks she's important.  Westeros will need help from the East to get through the long Winter.  

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11 minutes ago, shameeka said:

While I am excited about the upcoming Targaryen books, are they really the first family in the planetos? Brandon the Builder was the first Stark and I think his time was before Valyria.

I would say that houses Gardener, Stark, Lannister, Dayne, Hightower and Durrandon are all older than house Targaryen. Weren't the Valyrians still sheep-herding folk while the Long night was happening and the great houses of Westeros were being formed?

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24 minutes ago, shameeka said:

While I am excited about the upcoming Targaryen books, are they really the first family in the planetos? Brandon the Builder was the first Stark and I think his time was before Valyria.

I think OP meant "most prominent", "most important", the star of the show.  Not who is the oldest.  

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1 minute ago, KingMudd said:

I would say that houses Gardener, Stark, Lannister, Dayne, Hightower and Durrandon are all older than house Targaryen. Weren't the Valyrians still sheep-herding folk while the Long night was happening and the great houses of Westeros were being formed?

Sheep herders are still people, no?

But if we talk about noble families the Dornish First Men noble families like the Daynes and Yronwoods, the Hightowers, Gardeners, Durrandons, Lannisters, Darklyns, Reynes, Royces, Brackens, etc. are (likely) all older than the Starks, say, whose founder Brandon the Builder only founded them after the Long Night (while the Gardeners and Hightowers go back to the Dawn Age and (some of) the other great and ancient First Men families were founded throughout the Age of Heroes - which ended with the Long Night and the War for the Dawn, putting Brandon the Builder at the very end of that era).

Valyria seems to have founded (some time) after the Long Night, so the Targaryens could be pretty old as a noble family if we assume they were among the first dragonlord families - if not, then they could have been founded centuries later. We have no idea at that point.

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3 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

ASOIAF is the story of the Targaryens.  Yes, I too think they are meant to be the hero of this epic. 

Stannis is out of touch with Westeros.  Damn, people who know him well don't want him to be their king.  Jon is even worse than Stannis.  Jon was out of touch with his own men and betrayed them.  He is clearly unsuited to rule. The best choice for Westeros is Dany, followed by Aegon.  Barristan and Jorah are both sold on Team Dany.  Benerro already thinks she's important.  Westeros will need help from the East to get through the long Winter.  

So the best choice of ruler for Westeros are two people that have never set foot there since they were babies? Both have no idea how to rule Westeros better than any of the current contenders.

You say that Stannis is out of touch with Westeros. He's more in touch with his own home than two people who have been raised in another continent with different customs. People don't like Stannis because of his personality, but this donsn't mean he'll be a bad king. Probably the best ruler Westeros could have had was Tywin lannister, if nothing else he was a great ruler.

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2 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Sheep herders are still people, no?

But if we talk about noble families the Dornish First Men noble families like the Daynes and Yronwoods, the Hightowers, Gardeners, Durrandons, Lannisters, Darklyns, Reynes, Royces, Brackens, etc. are (likely) all older than the Starks, say, whose founder Brandon the Builder only founded them after the Long Night (while the Gardeners and Hightowers go back to the Dawn Age and (some of) the other great and ancient First Men families were founded throughout the Age of Heroes - which ended with the Long Night and the War for the Dawn, putting Brandon the Builder at the very end of that era).

Valyria seems to have founded (some time) after the Long Night, so the Targaryens could be pretty old as a noble family if we assume they were among the first dragonlord families - if not, then they could have been founded centuries later. We have no idea at that point.

I never said they weren't.

Where are you getting this info? There is no information about all those houses you list as Dornish First men houses being older than any other house. They all claim to be from the age of heroes, the Starks included.

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18 minutes ago, KingMudd said:

Where are you getting this info? There is no information about all those houses you list as Dornish First men houses being older than any other house. They all claim to be from the age of heroes, the Starks included.

It is the obvious conclusion from the way Westeros was populated by the First Men. They came into the land via the unbroken Arm of Dorne, and thus they would have first settled in Dorne and the Reach and the Stormlands, before they continued into the West, the Riverlands, the Vale, and the North.

We don't have any numbers on this, but the first settlements and ringforts at Starfall and Oldtown may have existed long before there even were First Men in the Vale or the North, say.

And thus they may have been the first 'lords' and 'petty kings' down there long before there was any human population farther up north.

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8 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

It is the obvious conclusion from the way Westeros was populated by the First Men. They came into the land via the unbroken Arm of Dorne, and thus they would have first settled in Dorne and the Reach and the Stormlands, before they continued into the West, the Riverlands, the Vale, and the North.

We don't have any numbers on this, but the first settlements and ringforts at Starfall and Oldtown may have existed long before there even were First Men in the Vale or the North, say.

And thus they may have been the first 'lords' and 'petty kings' down there long before there was any human population farther up north.

I'm not talking about the First men who came over to Westeros. You said the Yronwoods, Gardeners, Durrandons, Lannisters, Darklyns, Reynes, Royces, Brackens are all older than the Starks. There is no information to come to that conclusion. They all claim to be founded in the age of heroes and that's it.

Also the existence of settlements in Starfall and Oldtown doesn't mean that houses Dayne and Hightower created them or even existed at the time. Houses Dayne and Hightower might have built on what was already there later on. Again there is not enough info to conclude anything.

Edited by KingMudd

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2 minutes ago, KingMudd said:

I'm not talking about the First men the came over to Westeros. You said the  Yronwoods, Gardeners, Durrandons, Lannisters, Darklyns, Reynes, Royces, Brackens are all older than the Starks. There is no information to come to that comclusion. They all claim to be founded in the age of heroes and that's it.

Those houses are First Men houses, and Lann the Clever, for instance, lived before the Long Night, as did Garth Greenhand and his son, the first Gardener king, Garth the Gardener. The Reynes are confirmed to have been in existence in the days of the Casterlys, before Lann took over Casterly Rock, making them much older than the Starks.

Again, we do know that the Long Night ended the Age of Heroes. And if Brandon the Builder lived after the Long Night - building Winterfell and the Wall - then the other First Men heroes of the Age of Heroes lived before him, some of them perhaps centuries or millennia before him.

Else this 'Age of Heroes' wouldn't have been an age of heroes but rather 'the Century of Heroes' or 'the Decade of Heroes'...

2 minutes ago, KingMudd said:

Also the settlements in starfall and oldtown dosn't mean that those houses existed or created them. Houses dayne and Hightower might have built on what was already there later on. Again there is not enough info to conclude anything.

Well, could be, but the Hightowers are apparently so old that their founding father is actually not their founding father but already the King of Oldtown.

It might be that the first settlers at one of those ancient settlers are not related to the founders and rulers of the noble houses controlling them later - but it certainly might be.

Just as it might be that there is no biological continuity in many of those ancient bloodlines because bastards fathered on the lady of the house, impostors, the male kin of a woman marrying into a family, etc. just took over the family and continued to go by the established name - just as Bronn presumes to call himself 'Lord Stokeworth' these days.

But chances are pretty good that there were Redwynes and Oakhearts long before there were Starks, Boltons, or Umbers.

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1 hour ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

ASOIAF is the story of the Targaryens.  Yes, I too think they are meant to be the hero of this epic. 

No it is not, unless one reads only Daenery's POV chapters. There's a "I" in ASOIAF, for "Ice". It's not ASODragonsAF.

It's as much the story of the Starks or the Lannisters as that of the Targaryens, who after 5 books and 5000 pages are represented by ONE character, seriously ill and lost in a desert…

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10 hours ago, 867-5309 said:

A good portion of TWOIAF is devoted to the Targaryens.  GM's upcoming book is about the history of the Targaryens.  The main character of the current time period in the story is Daenerys Targaryen.  House Targaryen is the only member of the ruling class to survive the Doom of Valyria.   They are my favorite family.  The timely dream from Daenys and a father having faith in his daughter saved the family from doom.  I don't know if we will see a New Valyria but it is something I want to happen.  Dany will have control of a good portion of Essos if she can win over the Dothraki.  Volantis is practically hers for the taking.  A New Valyria built on a foundation of freedom instead of slavery.  I would like to see that happen.  Dany ruling in the East.  Aegon/Griff ruling in the West.  

Mine too.  I would like to see both continents under Daenerys Targaryen's rule.  

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15 hours ago, 867-5309 said:

A good portion of TWOIAF is devoted to the Targaryens.  GM's upcoming book is about the history of the Targaryens.  The main character of the current time period in the story is Daenerys Targaryen.  House Targaryen is the only member of the ruling class to survive the Doom of Valyria.   They are my favorite family.  The timely dream from Daenys and a father having faith in his daughter saved the family from doom.  I don't know if we will see a New Valyria but it is something I want to happen.  Dany will have control of a good portion of Essos if she can win over the Dothraki.  Volantis is practically hers for the taking.  A New Valyria built on a foundation of freedom instead of slavery.  I would like to see that happen.  Dany ruling in the East.  Aegon/Griff ruling in the West.  The Khal of khals is prophesied to come from this line.  Maybe it's the Khaleesi to rule them all.

 

The khal of khals is predicted to come from this line.  Perhaps it's the Khaleesi of all khalasars and the entire world will be Her khalasar.

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If the story is about Danaerys becoming ruler, woe to Planetos. She's proven herself to be incompetent at that, though she's a very good general. Fire and blood, yes, planting trees, no.

Really, other Houses get as much time in the narration as the Targs do. Arya alone has nearly as many chapters as Dany. The Targs sat at King's Landing for 300 years? That makes them newcomers in Westeros. The Starks ruled the North for, what, 8000?

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1 hour ago, 300 H&H Magnum said:

 

The khal of khals is predicted to come from this line.  Perhaps it's the Khaleesi of all khalasars and the entire world will be Her khalasar.

What a great politic project, a society of Stone Age warriors :blink:

It remains to be seen whether the Dothrakis will be capable of facing the winter in Westeros…

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