Hugorfonics Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 17 hours ago, Light a wight tonight said: Unless you count the Dance of the Dragons and the various Blackfyre Rebellions. Even if you count them, it's still not as bad. War of five Kings has been more detrimental then anything Westeros has experienced. Having said that, I'm very excited for the Three Queens. 5 hours ago, The Drunkard said: Aegon has stolen her thunder in that regard. He's the young male heir of Rhaegar Targaryen, leading the most disciplined army in the world, with Varys working PR for him, and in the sample chapter... Reveal hidden contents ... already in talks with Dorne about an alliance, and in his first battle he's managed to capture Storm's End and is marching to defeat the Tyrell army. He's everything a Targaryen supporter could want in a claimant. If either he or Dany is uninterested in sharing power then she'll need to defeat him and his allies, so her invasion likely won't be smooth. I'm pretty sure the unsullied are more disciplined then a bunch of sellswords, and I don't think it's possible to steal thunder from Drogon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sidious Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 19 hours ago, Ylath's Snout said: Ehh maybe but I'm having a hard time seeing it. Dany and most Dothraki Khals have completely opposite goals: Dany is The Breaker Of Chains and Khalasars tend to be roving slaver bands. Unless Dany pulls a heel turn and becomes "The Make of Chains" or the Dothraki out right reject slavery then there is a fatal crack in any Dany-Dothraki alliance. An ordinary leader is not going to be able to force that kind of anti-slavery rule on the Dothraki. But Dany is extraordinarily awesome. The Dothraki may see her as a god-like figure who will unite all of the khalasars into one Dothraki nation, just as her almost-as-great ancestors united the western continent into what became the seven kingdoms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sidious Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 6 hours ago, The Drunkard said: Aegon has stolen her thunder in that regard. He's the young male heir of Rhaegar Targaryen, leading the most disciplined army in the world, with Varys working PR for him, and in the sample chapter... Reveal hidden contents ... already in talks with Dorne about an alliance, and in his first battle he's managed to capture Storm's End and is marching to defeat the Tyrell army. He's everything a Targaryen supporter could want in a claimant. If either he or Dany is uninterested in sharing power then she'll need to defeat him and his allies, so her invasion likely won't be smooth. Aegon has no dragon and he will have to prove his identity. Possession of Blackfyre may be enough to sway a few but it pales in comparison to having actual dragons. Aegon has not stolen Dany's thunder. What he has done and probably will do is weaken what little resistance may be left in Westeros, and by that, I mean weaken the Lannisters and the Baratheons, possibly the Boltons or the Starks (depending on who comes out on top in the battle of ice). On a side note. I think Dany and Aegon would be more amenable to having the Boltons rule the north in place of the Starks and they may not have an issue with Roose keeping his post and his two castles, Winterfell and Dreadfort. The Boltons will not resist as long as the Targaryens let them keep the north. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylath's Snout Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, Agent Orange said: But Dany is extraordinarily awesome. I think you mean Dany is extraordinarily dragon-having. 23 minutes ago, Agent Orange said: The Dothraki may see her as a god-like figure who will unite all of the khalasars into one Dothraki nation, just as her almost-as-great ancestors united the western continent into what became the seven kingdoms. Or they will see her as a threat to their (scumbag) way of life and in flagrant disregard of her duty to join the Dosh khaleen. Arguably the Dothraki might be among the people best suited to avoid the power of Dany's dragons. Other than Vaes Dothrak they lack permanent infrastructure for the dragons to attack and if the Khalasars split into smaller groups hunting them all down would be a huge time-sink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 2 hours ago, Hugorfonics said: Even if you count them, it's still not as bad. War of five Kings has been more detrimental then anything Westeros has experienced. I tend to doubt this. Can you support it or are you just giving an opinion? Oh, and the first Winter, with the White Walkers, ice spiders, wights, all that stuff doesn't count either? I'd say that was worse than the War of the Five Kings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 37 minutes ago, Light a wight tonight said: I tend to doubt this. Can you support it or are you just giving an opinion? Sure! Vale, not bad, one dead regent. Dorne, only one dead prince Ironborn, one dead king one missing prince, a few desolated armies. (Now it gets fun) North. Dead king, missing princes and princess', destroyed castles and dead armies. The lands empty and dangerous Riverlands, lol. From Tywin to Roose, Beric to Rorge. Pretty much anyone showing his face will find it covered in smoke and blood. Robb pillaged the Westernlands, Mace brought the steel onto Florant lands in the Reach. The stormlands have been fighting non stop, against themselves, the IT and now the Golden Company. Hell, even the crownlands have been burnt by Tyrion. And let's not even mention north of the wall. The current events in Westeros is a world war like none has seen. Every greedy lord is out for profit, all the others are watching their backs. During the dance, iirc, it was mainly the riverlands. During the blackfyres they were also only in the south. Neither of these were world wars, as not every major house sufffered grave consequences. 37 minutes ago, Light a wight tonight said: Oh, and the first Winter, with the White Walkers, ice spiders, wights, all that stuff doesn't count either? I'd say that was worse than the War of the Five Kings. The WW are a problem now too. The ice spiders seem scary, but any scarier then two shadowbabies, or packs of wolves being led by a Direwolf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 8 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said: Sure! Vale, not bad, one dead regent. Dorne, only one dead prince Ironborn, one dead king one missing prince, a few desolated armies. (Now it gets fun) North. Dead king, missing princes and princess', destroyed castles and dead armies. The lands empty and dangerous Riverlands, lol. From Tywin to Roose, Beric to Rorge. Pretty much anyone showing his face will find it covered in smoke and blood. Robb pillaged the Westernlands, Mace brought the steel onto Florant lands in the Reach. The stormlands have been fighting non stop, against themselves, the IT and now the Golden Company. Hell, even the crownlands have been burnt by Tyrion. And let's not even mention north of the wall. The current events in Westeros is a world war like none has seen. Every greedy lord is out for profit, all the others are watching their backs. During the dance, iirc, it was mainly the riverlands. During the blackfyres they were also only in the south. Neither of these were world wars, as not every major house sufffered grave consequences. The WW are a problem now too. The ice spiders seem scary, but any scarier then two shadowbabies, or packs of wolves being led by a Direwolf? Yup, as I thought, no mention of the devastation that occurred during the Targaryen dynasty, just what has happened recently. Not convincing at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, Light a wight tonight said: Yup, as I thought, no mention of the devastation that occurred during the Targaryen dynasty, just what has happened recently. Not convincing at all. That's what in saying, the Targ wars weren't devestaing, unless you were a Targ (or Blackfyre, Velaryron or Hightower) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenmaps Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 All wars are devastating. Smallfolk always pay the price for the wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 I'm not sure what you mean, but all wars are devastating. They aren't fought just by nobles and knights. Read what Brother Meribald had to say about the peasants conscripted to fight in the wars started by the nobles. And there were 5 Blackfyre rebellions, plus the Dance of the Dragons. The Targaryen dynasty was not an idyllic time of peace. They were killing each other pretty often, in fact. A major conflict about every 50 years, on average. Plus, you pretty much overstate how bad the 5 Kings war was. The major hurt was in the Riverlands and around King's Landing. The Reach was untouched, the Westerlands got no worse than a bloody nose, the Vale stayed out of it, as did Dorne. Little destruction occurred in the North, though there was a regime change there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowy Tends Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 2 hours ago, Agent Orange said: An ordinary leader is not going to be able to force that kind of anti-slavery rule on the Dothraki. But Dany is extraordinarily awesome. The Dothraki may see her as a god-like figure who will unite all of the khalasars into one Dothraki nation, You're describing what happens in the TV show. Hopefully in the books nothing will be so caricatural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowen 747 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 On 5/13/2018 at 5:08 PM, Light a wight tonight said: Unless you count the Dance of the Dragons and the various Blackfyre Rebellions. Those resulted in battles but not war. The War Of The Five Idiots threatened to break the kingdom apart. It was partly due to the Red Wedding that Northern separation was avoided. 23 hours ago, Damsel in Distress said: The War of the Fire Kings has done the most damage. What matters most is the damage of the WOTFKs is still happening. People are not as worried about what happened a century ago as they are worried about the current predicament that they are in because of the Starks, Lannisters, Baratheons, Greyjoys, and Tullys. The throne is in debt. Stannis just borrowed more money and that in turn will add to the throne's debt if he should manage to get himself crowned. The Watch is now in debt. Whoever succeeds the executed Jon Snow as the new lord commander will have to deal with that debt. Dorne is plotting against the king on the throne. Aegon and the GC are on the attack. Westeros will much prefer to be ruled by Queen Daenerys when the possible alternatives are Littlefinger, Jon Snow (if he survives his stabbing, which I hope he doesn't), Euron Greyjoy, Cersei Lannister, and Stannis Baratheon (if he survived the battle for Winterfell, which he did not, according to the pink letter). Good to bring up those debts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 6 hours ago, Light a wight tonight said: I'm not sure what you mean, but all wars are devastating. They aren't fought just by nobles and knights. Read what Brother Meribald had to say about the peasants conscripted to fight in the wars started by the nobles. And there were 5 Blackfyre rebellions, plus the Dance of the Dragons. The Targaryen dynasty was not an idyllic time of peace. They were killing each other pretty often, in fact. A major conflict about every 50 years, on average. I'm not saying the wars didn't take their toll, or that Westeros was ever near peaceful, just that it's never been this, multiple conflicts throughout all Westeros. 6 hours ago, Light a wight tonight said: Plus, you pretty much overstate how bad the 5 Kings war was. The major hurt was in the Riverlands and around King's Landing. I don't think I did, it's terrible over there. I mean those 2 places are just ash 6 hours ago, Light a wight tonight said: The Reach was untouched, the Westerlands got no worse than a bloody nose, The Reach sent men to die on both sides of the blackwater. The Lannister armies have crumbled, along with some Western castles. 6 hours ago, Light a wight tonight said: the Vale stayed out of it, as did Dorne. They're both foul with rebellion be it the mountain men armed in Western steel or the Lord's declerent questioning their regents murder, their howling for a change like the citizens of sunspear. Five Kings only took two lives (Lysa and Oberyn) but more are sure to follow because of it. 6 hours ago, Light a wight tonight said: Little destruction occurred in the North, though there was a regime change there. "When there was a Stark in Winterfell, a maiden girl could walk the kingsroad in her name-day gown and still go unmolested, and travelers could find fire, bread, and salt at many an inn and holdfast. But the nights are colder now, and doors are closed. There's squids in the wolfswood, and flayed men ride the kingsroad asking after strangers." ... "It was different when there was a Stark in Winterfell. But the old wolf's dead and young one's gone south to play the game of thrones, and all that's left us is the ghosts." The North's gotta be the worst. Jaime remarks on how the chances of Riverlanders making harvest before winter unlikely, the northerners have no chance. Under Targaryens the lords fought for glory and honor, now it's for power and survival. The stakes have never been this high in Westeros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowy Tends Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 Obviously the Targaryen fan club has forgotten that the WOT5K happened because of two moronic Targaryens… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylath's Snout Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 23 minutes ago, Nowy Tends said: Obviously the Targaryen fan club has forgotten that the WOT5K happened because of two moronic Targaryens… Now I ain't never been no Targ fanboy but how do you figure that the sibling-shaggers are to blame for the War of Five Kings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowy Tends Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 15 minutes ago, Ylath's Snout said: Now I ain't never been no Targ fanboy but how do you figure that the sibling-shaggers are to blame for the War of Five Kings? I admit I wasn't clear. I meant "indirectly"; if Aerys hadn't gone mad and/or if his son had been able to take over, the Targs would still be in charge, there would be no rebellion, the Lannisters would (probably) not have been able to advance their checkers to that point, etc. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 You can't blame Aerys for something twenty years after his murder. If your gonna blame anyone for it, it's Sansa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said: You can't blame Aerys for something twenty years after his murder. If your gonna blame anyone for it, it's Sansa Really? I mean, really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: Really? I mean, really? Lol, ya know, indirectly. But sure. Ned went south to marry off Sansa and Robb went to free her. She also caused the death of Ned and Robert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowy Tends Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 33 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said: You can't blame Aerys for something twenty years after his murder. Of course I can, are you serious? This story is full of resentment and revenge for long past actions. Jaime is still called "Kingslayer", isn't he? Was Oberyn wrong to demand a vengeance (and a public confession)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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