No fleet at all after Brandon the Burner??

[Canon Claude]

I can buy that the North doesn’t have a lot of money to pay for a grand fleet to rival the Ironborn or the Redwynes, and I can even buy that the First Men have little interest in sailing. But I find it absurd that in the thousand years that House Manderly has been in the North, there has never been an enterprising Lord Manderly who saw the sense in at least a small fleet of ships to protect the coast and the merchant ships traveling to and from White Harbour. And that’s before even mentioning the lack of ships on the west coast. Hell, even the Mallisters have ships to defend themselves from the Ironborn. What excuse could the Mormonts and the Glovers have? 

[aryagonnakill#2]

They have had fleets at times.  We know the Skagosi rebelled about 100 years before the story, and that the rebellion was put down, meaning they sailed to Skagos.

With the presence of the Royal fleet, the North probably felt it wasn't worth the expense.

[Stormking902]

The North were part of the 7k any invading force would have to deal with the royal fleet or the Vales fleet, so the North probably thought its an unneeded expense. ALSO the Manderlys def have a small defense fleet of probably 5-10 ships and 3 of those being war galleys. There is no evidence at all the Manderlys dont other then Robb requesting them build a fleet which simply implies he needed way more ships then the small amount Manderly had. 

[Nittanian]

3 hours ago, Stormking902 said:

Robb requesting them build a fleet which simply implies he needed way more ships then the small amount Manderly had. 

FYI, Rodrik Cassel advises the Manderlys and Umbers to build a fleet to help deal with wildlings in ACOK. 

Quote

Hother wanted ships. "There's wildlings stealing down from the north, more than I've ever seen before. They cross the Bay of Seals in little boats and wash up on our shores. The crows in Eastwatch are too few to stop them, and they go to ground quick as weasels. It's longships we need, aye, and strong men to sail them. The Greatjon took too many. Half our harvest is gone to seed for want of arms to swing the scythes."

Ser Rodrik pulled at his whiskers. "You have forests of tall pine and old oak. Lord Manderly has shipwrights and sailors in plenty. Together you ought to be able to float enough longships to guard both your coasts."

"Manderly?" Mors Umber snorted. "That great waddling sack of suet? His own people mock him as Lord Lamprey, I've heard. The man can scarce walk. If you stuck a sword in his belly, ten thousand eels would wriggle out."

"He is fat," Ser Rodrik admitted, "but he is not stupid. You will work with him, or the king will know the reason why." And to Bran's astonishment, the truculent Umbers agreed to do as he commanded, though not without grumbling.(ACOK Bran II)

In AGOT Ned has Catelyn relay the message that Wyman is fortify White Harbor.

Quote

When the door had closed behind him, Ned turned back to his wife. "Once you are home, send word to Helman Tallhart and Galbart Glover under my seal. They are to raise a hundred bowmen each and fortify Moat Cailin. Two hundred determined archers can hold the Neck against an army. Instruct Lord Manderly that he is to strengthen and repair all his defenses at White Harbor, and see that they are well manned. And from this day on, I want a careful watch kept over Theon Greyjoy. If there is war, we shall have sore need of his father's fleet." (AGOT Eddard IV)

Davos observes the stronger fortifications in ADWD.  

Quote

White Harbor's walls of whitewashed stone rose before them, on the eastern shore where the White Knife plunged into the firth. Some of the city's defenses had been strengthened since the last time Davos had been here, half a dozen years before. The jetty that divided the inner and outer harbors had been fortified with a long stone wall, thirty feet tall and almost a mile long, with towers every hundred yards. There was smoke rising from Seal Rock as well, where once there had been only ruins. That could be good or bad, depending on what side Lord Wyman chooses. (ADWD Davos II)

Quote

That jetty wall conceals the inner harbor, he realized, as the Merry Midwife was pulling down her sail. The outer harbor was larger, but the inner harbor offered better anchorage, sheltered by the city wall on one side and the looming mass of the Wolf's Den on another, and now by the jetty wall as well. At Eastwatch-by-the-Sea, Cotter Pyke told Davos that Lord Wyman was building war galleys. There could have been a score of ships concealed behind those walls, waiting only a command to put to sea. (ACOK Davos II)

 

[Free Northman Reborn]

Looking at some of the descriptions of the order of crypt statues, and various other hints, it would seem that Brandon the Burner was a fairly recent Stark King, living perhaps 500-600 years ago or thereabouts.

That may leave as little as 200 years between his burning of the Stark fleet and Aegon’s Conquest. At which point the Iron Throne theoretically gained reaponsibility for defending the shores of Westeros from foreign invaders.

A weakish argument, I know, but the best one available to explain away Martin’s oversight in this respect.

[Jon Fossoway]

I picture it as going back from a inter stellar civilization to one confined to its solar system. Or, as the Starks giving up the outer continent travels or conquering pretentions. Theon Stark travelled to Andalos with pressumably a fleet before Brandon the Burner. To think they became actually shipless is kinda naive. Giving up conquering outer regions prolly made them even more culturally secluded.

[Ylath's Snout]

The North has a really problem when it come to organizing a propper Navy. They are the only kingdom with major coastlines on both sides of Westeros meaning that they pretty much would need two fleets that couldn't back each other up in any sort of realistic time frame.

IMHO that plus 300-ish years of reliance on the Red Wyne, Lannister and Royal fleet to keep them safe, and the resulting under funding of their own navy, would have been been a pretty good reason to say that Northern navy was completely useless. Sending Theon to treat with Balon would still make sense to Robb.

Also, side question I seem to recall Lord Rickard having plant for digging a canal across the Neck to facilitate trade and naval redeployment. Is there any canonicity to that or is it 100% fanon?

[The South Forgets]

12 hours ago, Ylath's Snout said:

The North has a really problem when it come to organizing a propper Navy. They are the only kingdom with major coastlines on both sides of Westeros meaning that they pretty much would need two fleets that couldn't back each other up in any sort of realistic time frame.

IMHO that plus 300-ish years of reliance on the Red Wyne, Lannister and Royal fleet to keep them safe, and the resulting under funding of their own navy, would have been been a pretty good reason to say that Northern navy was completely useless. Sending Theon to treat with Balon would still make sense to Robb.

Also, side question I seem to recall Lord Rickard having plant for digging a canal across the Neck to facilitate trade and naval redeployment. Is there any canonicity to that or is it 100% fanon?

Fanon. Isn't the Neck something like a 100 miles across?. Also, the terrain would be not conducive for any sort of construction. And Westeros hasn't got modern technology.

[Ylath's Snout]

 

43 minutes ago, The South Forgets said:

Fanon. Isn't the Neck something like a 100 miles across?

Ah well that is good to know. Although I did look it up a bit more in detail. You can sail from the Saltspear up the river Fever to Moat Cailin, so a channel would only have to go from Moat Cailin to near the inlet of the White Knife.

 Going by this map 

it is a bit under 150 miles. Fairly close to the Göta Canal that started construction in 1810. Although that canal was able to use a lot of existing rivers and lakes, that may or may not be the case in a Neck Canal.

43 minutes ago, The South Forgets said:

And Westeros hasn't got modern technology.

Canals aren't exactly high tech, Göta Canal was mostly dug by with shovels and picks. They did use blasting powder but Wildfire seems lite it could substitute. Over all Westeros tech-level is a bit weird and seemingly way ahead of medieval europe in some regards. Göta Canal too 58 000 workers something like 22 years to get done but the potential benefits of a Neck Canal seem pretty huge.

43 minutes ago, The South Forgets said:

Also, the terrain would be not conducive for any sort of construction.

This might be the biggest problem, I honestly don't know if it might be completely unsurpassable.

Edit: I can't get the link to the map to work properly, it is the one from http://iceandfire.wikia.com 's the north page.

[SirArthur]

14 hours ago, Ylath's Snout said:

The North has a really problem when it come to organizing a propper Navy. They are the only kingdom with major coastlines on both sides of Westeros meaning that they pretty much would need two fleets that couldn't back each other up in any sort of realistic time frame.

Not really. The North has some amazing geographical features I doubt GRRM created intentionally. One of the features are the mountains in the west almost all the way down. And most of the rivers crossing the entire North from west to east. That means, all the harbors are on the east side. Well protected from Ironborn or slavers. Also the Watch has no western harbor. 

 

There are exceptions - the biggest is bear island. And somehow - despite the lack of a port in the west, they manage to supply Robb's campaign. This is even more strange than the missing navy of the North.