NW and Invasions

[Corvo the Crow]

During Aegon's Conquest NW has 10000 men under LC Hoare, however he acts honourably and does not take his men and marx off to aid his brother. 

Westeros then was populated by First Men, Andals and Rhoynar and even some Valyrians who were at the time are on a conquest but they are also inhabitants of Westeros for several hundred years.

From the current story NW is eager to prevent Wildlings "invading" south of the wall and see it as their duty and part of their vows of defending the Realms of men. According to the lore this was also the case with several other attempted "invasions" by wildlings.

My question is, if NW, a first men order, is so eager to defend the realms of men even from other men, other men who share race and culture with them, why did it not aid the realms of(first) men during Andal invasions against invaders from foreign lands bent on destroying the realms of (first) men?

[Ylath's Snout]

Maybe the wildlings were more of a threat back then? Could also be that the memory of the Others was fresher so they didn't dare leave the wall underman.

[kissdbyfire]

1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

My question is, if NW, a first men order, is so eager to defend the realms of men even from other men, other men who share race and culture with them, why did it not aid the realms of(first) men during Andal invasions against invaders from foreign lands bent on destroying the realms of (first) men?

But the Andals' attempts at conquering the north failed, every last one of them. Unless you mean not only the north? 

As to the bold, that is happening only because the NW has forgotten its true purpose. In other words, the crows are not true anymore. 

[Universal Sword Donor]

1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

During Aegon's Conquest NW has 10000 men under LC Hoare, however he acts honourably and does not take his men and marx off to aid his brother. 

Westeros then was populated by First Men, Andals and Rhoynar and even some Valyrians who were at the time are on a conquest but they are also inhabitants of Westeros for several hundred years.

From the current story NW is eager to prevent Wildlings "invading" south of the wall and see it as their duty and part of their vows of defending the Realms of men. According to the lore this was also the case with several other attempted "invasions" by wildlings.

My question is, if NW, a first men order, is so eager to defend the realms of men even from other men, other men who share race and culture with them, why did it not aid the realms of(first) men during Andal invasions against invaders from foreign lands bent on destroying the realms of (first) men?

Well, I think we can agree the NW has lost its main purpose in the annals of history.

As to your point, Westeros does not think the Wildlings share their race and culture (or at least culture). Bowen Marsh more or less shows the typical Westerosi attitude. 

Then if we look at your question, well Hoare's brother commanded 10K men. Assuming he protects the wall with a 10% garrison, he's walking south with 9K men through northern territory. An IB led "kingdom neutral" force marching through the North would be seen as an act of war. If we assume he allies with the Northmen, he likely marches 1500 miles or more to bend the knee. If the Northmen let him through and don't cut him up a la what would have happened to Stannis, he marches 1500 miles to fight a force superior to his and one in possession of 3 dragons after they had defeated his brother and ostensibly a better army with a stanch defensive position.

Basically no matter how much he loved his brother, the same things Jeor said to Jon apply to the LC.

“Your brother is in the field with all the power of the north behind him. Any one of his lords bannermen commands more swords than you’ll find in all the Night’s Watch. Why do you imagine that they need your help? Are you such a mighty warrior, or do you carry a grumkin in your pocket to magic up your sword?”

 

[LiveFirstDieLater]

25 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Well, I think we can agree the NW has lost its main purpose in the annals of history.

As to your point, Westeros does not think the Wildlings share their race and culture (or at least culture). Bowen Marsh more or less shows the typical Westerosi attitude. 

Then if we look at your question, well Hoare's brother commanded 10K men. Assuming he protects the wall with a 10% garrison, he's walking south with 9K men through northern territory. An IB led "kingdom neutral" force marching through the North would be seen as an act of war. If we assume he allies with the Northmen, he likely marches 1500 miles or more to bend the knee. If the Northmen let him through and don't cut him up a la what would have happened to Stannis, he marches 1500 miles to fight a force superior to his and one in possession of 3 dragons after they had defeated his brother and ostensibly a better army with a stanch defensive position.

Basically no matter how much he loved his brother, the same things Jeor said to Jon apply to the LC.

“Your brother is in the field with all the power of the north behind him. Any one of his lords bannermen commands more swords than you’ll find in all the Night’s Watch. Why do you imagine that they need your help? Are you such a mighty warrior, or do you carry a grumkin in your pocket to magic up your sword?”

The obvious answer is that the Nights Watch has forgotten it’s own history (or intentionally wiped it from the records).

Of course there is great irony is the Night’s Watch remembering its vows but not why they swear them.

And Jon having a magic sword is great, the fact that Rob is by rights Jon’s Lord Bannerman is even better.

[Lost Melnibonean]

2 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

During Aegon's Conquest NW has 10000 men under LC Hoare, however he acts honourably and does not take his men and marx off to aid his brother. 

Westeros then was populated by First Men, Andals and Rhoynar and even some Valyrians who were at the time are on a conquest but they are also inhabitants of Westeros for several hundred years.

From the current story NW is eager to prevent Wildlings "invading" south of the wall and see it as their duty and part of their vows of defending the Realms of men. According to the lore this was also the case with several other attempted "invasions" by wildlings.

My question is, if NW, a first men order, is so eager to defend the realms of men even from other men, other men who share race and culture with them, why did it not aid the realms of(first) men during Andal invasions against invaders from foreign lands bent on destroying the realms of (first) men?

That's a good question, but their original mandate is only to secure the Wall against invasion. And the reality is they couldn't have done anything about it anyway, other than march south with the Northmen. 

[Corvo the Crow]

 Westeros is rather stagnant so I doubt NW members some 6000-8000 years ago came from a much more different culture than people beyond the wall. Andals have been in westeros for some 2000 years but even with the 7 worshipping Manderlies ruling it, last human sacrifice in WH was only 500 years ago.

They should have aided against Andals and then Targaryens. Unless their purpose is not to defend the realms of men but prevent passage through the wall. Possibly to both sides.

[LiveFirstDieLater]

12 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

 Westeros is rather stagnant so I doubt NW members some 6000-8000 years ago came from a much more different culture than people beyond the wall. Andals have been in westeros for some 2000 years but even with the 7 worshipping Manderlies ruling it, last human sacrifice in WH was only 500 years ago.

They should have aided against Andals and then Targaryens. Unless their purpose is not to defend the realms of men but prevent passage through the wall. Possibly to both sides.

I absolutely agree there is reason to suspect the Wall/Watch may have been founded to guard the southern face of the wall...

After all, the oldest tale we have about them, besides the song about the war for the dawn which we haven’t actually seen/heard/read, is that of the Nights King... who was cast down by the Stark of Winterfell (his brother) and Joramun of the Wildlings working together.

This is a massive red flag, and I would suggest that Joramun may actually have been an Other... like Symeon Star Eyes before him. And the Wall itself might have been created in response to the Nights King’s rule (the long night). 

[Texas Hold Em]

7 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

During Aegon's Conquest NW has 10000 men under LC Hoare, however he acts honourably and does not take his men and marx off to aid his brother. 

Westeros then was populated by First Men, Andals and Rhoynar and even some Valyrians who were at the time are on a conquest but they are also inhabitants of Westeros for several hundred years.

From the current story NW is eager to prevent Wildlings "invading" south of the wall and see it as their duty and part of their vows of defending the Realms of men. According to the lore this was also the case with several other attempted "invasions" by wildlings.

My question is, if NW, a first men order, is so eager to defend the realms of men even from other men, other men who share race and culture with them, why did it not aid the realms of(first) men during Andal invasions against invaders from foreign lands bent on destroying the realms of (first) men?

The wildling ways will destroy the feudal system if allowed to get traction in Westeros.  The First Men may not like the Andals but maybe they felt they can coexists if the worst comes.  A highborn nobleman won't keep his status for long if the wildlings should take over their lands.  The wildling way of not kneeling will destroy feudalism.  So maybe they saw it as the greater threat.  You don't want your smallfolk getting the same ideas.  The Andals were not out to destroy civilization.  The wildlings will destroy civilization.  

[Megorova]

7 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

From the current story NW is eager to prevent Wildlings "invading" south of the wall

~

why did it not aid the realms of(first) men during Andal invasions against invaders from foreign lands bent on destroying the realms of (first) men?

The Watchers prevent anyone going thru The Wall from the north. They protect lands on the southern part of The Wall, from invaders from the other side of The Wall. Their duty is limited to The Wall. Basically they guard The Wall, and not all those southern lands behind their backs.

The Andals didn't tried to cross The Wall from northern side to southern side of it, thus to Night's Watch, Andal Invasion was not their problem.