Football - To Russia with Löw

[Spockydog]

4 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

Fair enough. 

I think having a big ego is part of what makes these two such phenomenal players. Aside from being incredibly talented and dedicated, both these guys have unwavering belief in their own ability. I guess being full of themselves can be seen as a natural consequence of being head and shoulders above everyone else in their profession.

But when you compare their attitudes to players such as Bale, who you could quite easily argue has as much talent as CR7 & Messi but is an exceptional human being, they just look like enormous wankers. CR7 wants everything to be about him. He can't stand it when it's not, hence the bleating after last night's match. He should have gone into tennis or golf.

[Consigliere]

1 minute ago, Spockydog said:

But when you compare their attitudes to players such as Bale, who you could quite easily argue has as much talent as CR7 & Messi but is an exceptional human being, they just look like enormous wankers. CR7 wants everything to be about him. He can't stand it when it's not, hence the bleating after last night's match. He should have gone into tennis or golf.

Bale is talented but isn't close to the level of Messi and Ronaldo. What they do season-in and season-out for over a decade, no player in the modern era has come close to. I don't think Bale is a better human being either. Ronaldo does a lot of charity work so just because he's full of himself in interviews doesn't make him a shit person. I'm fine with the bleating of the two greatest ever players making things about themselves rather than the bleating of someone who thinks he is better than he actually is.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

8 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Bale, who you could quite easily argue has as much talent as CR7 & Messi but is an exceptional human being,

My turn to call bollocks. Bale is a fine player, but Messi and C. Ronaldo are still in a league of their own. Salah has just had a Messi or C. Ronaldoesque season. If he keeps that level over a few seasons, then he could make a case for himself to be in the same league as them. From the raw talent Messi himself is pretty much on his own anyway, Ronaldo got to Messi's level through extreme hard work and being super competitive (not a dig against Ronaldo, but he isn't the natural talent Messi is).

[Jeor]

25 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

I think having a big ego is part of what makes these two such phenomenal players. Aside from being incredibly talented and dedicated, both these guys have unwavering belief in their own ability.

Alex Ferguson wrote in one of his autobiographies that David Beckham had this quality. He could never admit he had ever done anything wrong or made a mistake. Ferguson reflected that it was a strength in the sense that Beckham always stepped up for the big matches and always wanted the ball, because he never thought anything could go wrong when he had it. I suspect it's the same for a lot of top players, although to varying degrees.

[polishgenius]

59 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

Bale is talented but isn't close to the level of Messi and Ronaldo.

 

If anything it's even more than that, Bale probably is as talented as Ronaldo but isn't nearly as good, and Ronaldo's attitude comes into that. In which there is, yes, a narcissism, but it also brings with it an unrivalled dedication to bettering himself. Bit like Roy Keane.

 

1 hour ago, Spockydog said:

CR7 wants everything to be about him. He can't stand it when it's not, hence the bleating after last night's match. He should have gone into tennis or golf.

The thing people always ignore when making this point though is that, yes, Ronaldo wants it to be about him and throws sulks when it's not, but he'll never look to push himself into the center of everything when it's not benificial to the team (unless he thinks the game is won, of course, then he goes wild with the potshots and things). If he doesn't get the ball when he wanted it he'll piss and moan and then make the same run again the next time the situation develops.
What you kind of have to bear in mind is that Ronaldo might be a huge narcissistic child but I've honestly never even heard so much as a hint of a bad word about him from teammates current or previous. No-one who works with him seems to have a problem with his ego. And by many accounts he's also privately a very generous bloke.
Generally a weird figure but not a bad one.

[ljkeane]

Just to cap off a great couple of days Fekir sounds pretty lukewarm about coming to Liverpool based on the interviews he's given recently. Ace.

ETA: Oh, and in case anyone was still in doubt over how much of a cunt Ramos is here he is elbowing Karius in the face too.

 

[Daemon the Leaner]

8 hours ago, polishgenius said:

What you kind of have to bear in mind is that Ronaldo might be a huge narcissistic child but I've honestly never even heard so much as a hint of a bad word about him from teammates current or previous. No-one who works with him seems to have a problem with his ego. And by many accounts he's also privately a very generous bloke.

As much as I rate Cristiano, I wouldn't consider that as a proof of his moral quality. One does not simply publicly criticize one of the very best player in the modern game without aftermathes. Especially in Real, where he seems to be the leader of the dressing room, alongside Ramos and perhaps Marcelo.

I mean, If I were Cristiano's teammate, with a minimum of realism, I would probably not go on with an argument against him, so long as I want to keep a decent place in the club. 

Of course, I think that because of the status he now has. But it hasn't always been: at some point, Ruud Van Nistelrooy did have some problems with Cristiano's ego, which lead him to leave Utd, IIRC.

That being said, I totally agree that he's a generous guy, both on and off the pitch.

[Consigliere]

14 minutes ago, Warm-hands said:

Of course, I think that because of the status he now has. But it hasn't always been: at some point, Ruud Van Nistelrooy did have some problems with Cristiano's ego, which lead him to leave Utd, IIRC.

Not true. Van Nistelrooy's time at United was over when he threw a tantrum at being left out of the league cup final. Ferguson wrote in his autobiography that RVN verbally abused Queiroz and had his agent speak to David Gill telling him that his client wanted out because he believed that United couldn't win the CL with youngsters like Rooney and Ronaldo.   He also had a spat with Ronaldo but that had nothing to do with Ronaldo's ego. Ferguson also says that after transferring to Real Madrid, RVN had phoned him to apologise for his behaviour and is even on record as saying that it was fair enough for Ferguson to sell him.

[Spockydog]

10 hours ago, polishgenius said:

If anything it's even more than that, Bale probably is as talented as Ronaldo but isn't nearly as good, and Ronaldo's attitude comes into that.

...as well as the potentially stifling political bollocks that he's had to endure for the past five years.

10 hours ago, polishgenius said:

What you kind of have to bear in mind is that Ronaldo might be a huge narcissistic child but I've honestly never even heard so much as a hint of a bad word about him from teammates current or previous. No-one who works with him seems to have a problem with his ego.

I used to play five-a-side on a semi-serious basis. There was one guy on our team, miles better than the rest of us. He was a flash prick, but a really, really good player. He had mad skills as well as most of the obnoxious character traits that make most non-Man Utd & Real Madrid supporters absolutely loathe Ronaldo. We tolerated this bloke, because he carried us to a few trophies, but everyone hated his fucking guts.

And just because you don't hear any teammates or ex-pros slagging off CR7, you also won't hear anyone slagging off Robbie Savage, or Charlie Adam, or any other cuntish wanker whose behaviour is/was a blight on the game.

[The Inquisitor]

16 hours ago, Spockydog said:

Pretty disgusted by the media's cowardly response to Ramos' shoulder-dislocating cuntery. He's a dirty, cheating bastard. Always has been, always will. 

Fingers crossed for Salah that he's okay for the World Cup. I'm hearing that an x-ray has indicated that there's no torn muscles involved. 

Maybe because it was a normal sequence of the game in which both players were fighting for possession?

It was a misfortune. That’s the end of it.

If you want to make a jihad out of it, help yourself. I suspect no one gives a shit about the opinions of an angry internet guy on Ramos. 

[polishgenius]

2 hours ago, The Inquisitor said:

I suspect no one gives a shit about the opinions of an angry internet guy on Ramos. 

So why are you here?

[Spockydog]

4 hours ago, The Inquisitor said:

Maybe because it was a normal sequence of the game in which both players were fighting for possession?

It was a misfortune. That’s the end of it.

If you want to make a jihad out of it, help yourself. I suspect no one gives a shit about the opinions of an angry internet guy on Ramos. 

24 la liga red cards he's had. Dirty. Cheating. Bastard. 

[lacuna]

I for one can't wait to see the back of Sergio Ramos. What a malignant, cheating prick. 

[AncalagonTheBlack]

14 hours ago, ljkeane said:

Just to cap off a great couple of days Fekir sounds pretty lukewarm about coming to Liverpool based on the interviews he's given recently. Ace.

Don't know how reliable this is:

Quote

@GFFN
Liverpool - Lyon negotiations for Nabil Fékir to start at the beginning of the week, according to tomorrow's L'Équipe. Lyon won't consider anything below a base level fee of €60m.

@GFFN
Nabil Fékir has not discussed any contract details with Liverpool, he will wait for Lyon to agree a fee with any club before discussing with them - tomorrow's L'Équipe.

@GFFN
Nabil Fékir is interested by Liverpool, according to tomorrow's L'Équipe.

 

[baxus]

My biggest impression of the match was - now, that's such a Liverpool way to lose the final. Playing against the most successful team in CL for years now, losing your star player AND giving away two goals like that... I don't know many teams that could've managed to grab a win in those circumstances.

I mean, how weird was it seeing Lovren (and VVD on occasion) completely canceling out Ronaldo? How weird is it that Liverpool conceded three goals and none came from blunders from our defenders?

Even despite Salah coming off, Liverpool weren't that far behind Real. I mean, they even came back into it with Mane's goal after that blunder from Karius. Bale's scissor-kick goal was a sight to behold, though. I just wish it was the only goal of the match, if Liverpool had to lose. Then I'd just say: "Great goal, marvelous display of skill, here's your trophy. Go and enjoy it." As it is, I will always remember these other two goals and think of this final as one Liverpool gave away.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. Even before what he did to Salah and especially now I am hoping Ramos will be on the receiving end of a studs-up challenge to his knee(s) that would end his career sooner rather than later. There's no player more deserving of it. At least not since Pepe went into obscurity that is Turkish league.

[Iskaral Pust]

On 5/27/2018 at 5:53 AM, Notone said:

I think it will still take a few days for scousers to calm down and get over that lost final, however, I think they can objectively be very happy with their season. They achieved a top four finish, thus back-to-back CL qualification, which they haven't done in quite a while. In the CL they outperformed expectations, and got to the final. If they were told that would be the outcome of this season, they would have happily signed up for it.

 

I am happy with the season overall.  Disappointed by how we lost the final, but we significantly outperformed expectations: most pre-season predictions had us finishing 5th, and exiting the CL at group stages.  More importantly, we played some high quality and entertaining football, even despite Barcelona stealing our most creative player mid way through the season.  Just imagine what we could do next if we add some talent, not just ball-chasing, into our MF and add some viable back-ups for our attack.

My only real disappointment is that once we went down 3-1 to RM, I didn’t see all eleven players, and however many subs we could still get on the field, take a turn at hacking down Ramos.  I think solidarity among footballers demands that every single opponent clog him at every opportunity in every game he plays again.  I’ll be truly happy if some of his teammates join in too. 

The added insult to injury (literally) in losing  the CL final is that we’ll be in pot 4 again next year for the drawing.  So we’ll have a tough challenge to make it out of our group.  But I bet we’ll be the last team anyone else wants to draw as a fourth seed in their group. 

[Iskaral Pust]

Sometimes the hardest thing about being a Liverpool fan is other Liverpool fans.  

My Dad takes every opportunity to bitterly complain that they’re a bunch of wasters who aren’t the same as the all-conquering side of the 70s-80s.  My brother talks them up like they’re the best team in the world and this year will be our year.  They both drive me nuts.  Both are bizarre examples of entitlement that cripple too many Liverpool fans. 

Why should we expect the club to be all-conquering now just because they were 30-40 years ago?  Things change over time!  Four other clubs in England have significantly outspent us for years, and will continue to do so.  And why should we ever think this year is our year?  We’re underdogs every single year.  Sometimes a mix of good luck and good form will give us close chance of winning, but most years we won’t be close and we’ll probably have more agonizing near misses than actual triumphs.  That’s the reality of being a second tier club: just close enough to hope but realistically not enough resources to clinch it. 

When I look at 2001 and 2005 and compare to 2007, 2009, 2014, 2016 and 2018, the proportions are about what you’d expect unfortunately, and getting worse since Chelsea and City increased the financial disparity.  The only good news is that we’ve had a lot more almost seasons in the past four years, which is a big improvement and makes it more likely that we’ll clinch one soon. 

[Consigliere]

13 minutes ago, Iskaral Pust said:

The added insult to injury (literally) in losing  the CL final is that we’ll be in pot 4 again next year for the drawing. 

Liverpool will be in pot 3. You will go into pot 2 if both Benfica and Basel fail to get through the qualifying rounds. 

[Mark Antony]

On 5/27/2018 at 5:54 AM, Spockydog said:

Bollocks. If you'd have described the final to them, most Liverpool fans would have run screaming for the hills.

Not sure I would’ve traded the journey to the final away though. But at the same time the Karius horror show does kinda make me never want to relive the CL run just like I never watch highlights of 13/14 after the slip lol. 

[polishgenius]

11 minutes ago, Iskaral Pust said:

]I think solidarity among footballers demands that every single opponent clog him at every opportunity in every game he plays again.  I’ll be truly happy if some of his teammates join in too. 

It's hardly as if this is the first time Ramos has done this, so really Liverpool should have clogged him from the start in solidarity with his previous victims.



At least Scousers got a consolation a day later with Darren Till getting a (very debatable) win over Wonderboy Thompson in an incredible atmosphere: