Anck Su Namun Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 6 hours ago, Ylath's Snout said: Yes, southern matches aren't the same thing as declaring open rebelion, despite what I have seen some people say. Those matches would put Rickard Stark in a powerful position to oppose his king if he wanted to and he should know that the Targaryens could never allow that to happen. A monarch who allows his vassals to become more powerful that he is loses his power. Aerys knew it. Rickard knew it. Robert knew it. Aegon Frey knew it. So while he may not be plotting to overthrow the Targaryens he had to know he was threatening their rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylath's Snout Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 4 hours ago, Anck Su Namun said: Those matches would put Rickard Stark in a powerful position to oppose his king if he wanted to and he should know that the Targaryens could never allow that to happen. Aerys did nothing about those matches and they were known for year so he could have done all sorts non-violent lawful of thing insure his power base. But this is getting pretty off-topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonmoon Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 There's no such thing as "true stark". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pontius Pilate Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 The Northerners are more harsh. Doubtful it's a family trait. Rather it is a cultural trait. The Boltons and the Starks have a lot more in common than they realize. They just show it in different ways. This Rickon looks like he's Theon the hungry wolf all over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rondo Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 The ways of the old gods are savage. Remember the vision from Bran. The early Starks fed human blood to their weirwood tree. I would not be surprised if this practice continued in secret until Ned's generation. Ned and Benjen may be different from their forefathers. The Andal and its Seven diluted the extreme among the worshippers of the old gods. The sharp edges slowly got rounder as the centuries moved on and the influence of the Seven affected the north. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 13 hours ago, Anck Su Namun said: Those matches would put Rickard Stark in a powerful position to oppose his king if he wanted to and he should know that the Targaryens could never allow that to happen. A monarch who allows his vassals to become more powerful that he is loses his power. Aerys knew it. Rickard knew it. Robert knew it. Aegon Frey knew it. So while he may not be plotting to overthrow the Targaryens he had to know he was threatening their rule. More likely Varys was the orchestrator. I think Arys's mind wouldn't handle the implications. If Varys was part of Blackfyre rebellion #6 and working to weaken the Targ main line he might well have persuaded Aerys that Rickard was plotting a takeover to goad Aerys into acts what would foment a rebellion. It wouldn't matter which side won; it would weaken the realm to make the takeover easier for the Blackfyres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geddus Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 On 5/18/2018 at 7:43 PM, Canon Claude said: Robb inherits Ned’s sense of honour and marries Jeyne Westerling, ignoring the warning of his direwolf when he rises to the Freys. If Robb had inherited his father's sense of honour he would have married lord Frey's daughter. He didn't, because he didn't actually understand his father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylath's Snout Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 27 minutes ago, Geddus said: If Robb had inherited his father's sense of honour he would have married lord Frey's daughter. "Taking" a woman's virginity without marrying her is dishonorable, breaking a marriage-pact is dishonorable. Once he lay with Jenya he was in a no-win scenario. He just didn't understand how bad he screwed up until it was too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geddus Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Ylath's Snout said: "Taking" a woman's virginity without marrying her is dishonorable, breaking a marriage-pact is dishonorable. Once he lay with Jenya he was in a no-win scenario. He just didn't understand how bad he screwed up until it was too late. I don't think that was a no-win scenario because the two options are not comparable: dishonoring a woman is one thing, breaking his word to one of his bannermen is something else entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylath's Snout Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 15 minutes ago, Geddus said: I don't think that was a no-win scenario because the two options are not comparable: dishonoring a woman is one thing, breaking his word to one of his bannermen is something else entirely. From a strikt "honor" point-of-view he'd tarnish himself either way. Jeyne is "ruined" in Westerosi society with very diminished opportunities for marriage after her and Robb took a tumble and Robb feels responsible for that. Politics is something else. Also it could be argued that the bannerman in question was pretty much extorting him so... ehh the Later Walder Frey isn't really one to call foul on not delivering on feudal obligations. However is this getting very off-topic, so agree to disagree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geddus Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 Sure, agree to disagree, no problems for me (even tho I agree with you on almost everything). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skahaz mo Kandaq Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 10 hours ago, Ylath's Snout said: "Taking" a woman's virginity without marrying her is dishonorable, breaking a marriage-pact is dishonorable. Once he lay with Jenya he was in a no-win scenario. He just didn't understand how bad he screwed up until it was too late. Robb lacked discipline. He lacked honor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylath's Snout Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 5 hours ago, Skahaz mo Kandaq said: Robb lacked discipline. He lacked honor. I'd state is more as: Robb lacked discipline so he lost his honor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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