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y does dany have the best bond with Drogon


manchester_babe

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On 5/19/2018 at 7:19 PM, manchester_babe said:

why is drogon dany's favourite dragon?

Many parents have favorites.  More than they will care to admit.  It's normal.  Although in our story it is also Drogon's choice.  He attaches himself to Dany.

On 5/19/2018 at 11:29 PM, Anck Su Namun said:

I believe there are two reasons:  (1)  Daenerys is the equivalent of Aegon the Conqueror and Drogon is Balerion the Black Dread come again.  They go together.  Daenerys is the strongest of the three heads of the dragon and therefore should have the most powerful dragon.  (2)  Drogo's life force or soul if you will, is in Drogon.  He was a powerful man who never lost a battle.  Likewise, Balerion was the most powerful dragon that we know of.  It is fitting that his soul,his second life, is Drogon.  

Dragons are fire made flesh.  Dany is the bride of fire.  Drogon is Drogo reincarnated. 

The dragons are her Lightbringer.

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There might not be much to this question. Dragons don't like to 'share' their riders, so as soon as (unhatched) Drogon showed a slight preference for Dany, the others would sense the tiny link and be less likely to try and link up themselves.

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17 hours ago, Megorova said:

We sort of do, though not in exact hours.

When Dany completely regained consciousness (second or even third time after Rhaego's birth), and when she asked them to show her Khal Drogo, it was still daylight. During night, that followed, Dany smothered Drogo with a pillow. Then nearly entire day passed, and on evening of that second day, when first star was seen in the sky, they burned Drogo's body. Thus it happened a bit less than 24 hours after his death.

I really don't get why people think that:

1. Rhaego is dead;

2. Rhaego's life is a payment for one of Dany's dragons.

What made people think so? :dunno:

On Drogo's death, I would agree with your conclusion but not your evidence. In my book, one chapter ends with Dany smothering Drogo, then another begins with the building of the pyre. So whether that was one day later, or two, or even three cannot be determined. But I doubt it was as long as three because she then washes Drogo's body and prepares him for his final ride, which would be a pretty grisly job on a three-day-old corpse. So it probably was within 24 hours or so.

But the length of time is irrelevant. The Dothraki do not consider you fully dead until your spirit is released by the flames to ascend into the night lands. If Drogo's body was dead even for a day but he still qualifies as a death for the life of a dragon, then it is perfectly consistent to think that even if Rhaego was dead for three, four or five days, he too qualifies as a death for the life of a dragon because he is in the same state as Drogo: dead in flesh but still alive in spirit.

To paraphrase your own reasoning:

1. Drogo is dead;

2. Drogo's life is a payment for one of Dany's dragons.

What makes you think so?

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8 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

To paraphrase your own reasoning:

1. Drogo is dead;

2. Drogo's life is a payment for one of Dany's dragons.

What makes you think so?

1. There was a reason for Drogo's death. He had an infected wound, was ill for several days, eventually he had sepsis. This irrevocably damaged his health and state of his body. He ended up in catatonic state, and Dany was unable to bear that.

We have seen how Drogo was killed (we have read it on pages). Dany smothered him with a pillow. So he's really died.

After that, there was a funeral. Many people saw Drogo's dead body. And some of them even touched that dead body. When they brought Drogo's body from his tent, and placed it on top of funeral pyre. We saw his body burning. And after that, his burned bones were seen amongst remnants of others that burned there - Mirri and the stallion.

Thus Drogo's death is an undeniable fact.

2. Dany has placed on that funeral pyre three dragon eggs, and three beings in various states - Drogo's body, dead for approximately 24 hours; stallion's body, that was killed when Dothraki were building that funeral pyre; Mirri Maz Duur, still alive and binded to a pyre. Thus on Drogo's funeral pyre were burned six components - black egg, green egg, pale egg, Drogo's body, stallion's body, Mirri. The rule of blood magic says - death pays for life. Thus for three eggs to hatch, Dany had to give three sacrifices. The fire combined together those six elements, it took life force from three of them, and gave that life force to the other three. Drogon, Rhaegel and Viseryon were born/hatched as result of that exchange. Thus they are those three, to whom the life force went. And the other three - Drogo, stallion and Mirri - were those three, from whom the life force was taken away. Based on several details (such as order in which Dany has placed three eggs on funeral pyre, how exactly were they placed, order of hatching) we can make a logical conclusion, that Drogo's life was payment for Drogon's life (Mirri's for Viseryon's, and stallion's for Rhaegel's).

Thus we also know that Drogo's life is a payment for Drogon.

Now about Rhaego - there's no reason why he could have died.

Shortly prior beginning of her labour, Dany felt her baby kicking inside, so he was alive, and not dead for years, like Mirri said.

Also the magic doesn't work in a way, like it was said by Mirri. There's no way, that Dany's baby died, just because Jorah has brought Dany inside Drogo's tent, in the middle of that ritual. How come that those dark forces killed only Rhaego, and not Mirri (the one that summoned them), Drogo (that was already in a weakened state, on a verge of death, thus he was the easiest target), Jorah (that was bleeding heavily than Dany), Dany herself (she's blood of the dragon, so shouldn't its magical power give her additional protection against evil?), if those forces went wild, then why didn't they killed all those people outside of Drogo's tent, why did they limited their influence only to Rhaego? The point of the ritual, executed by Mirri, was to trade horse's life for Drogo's life. Though as Mirri has warned Dany beforehand, nothing can restore Drogo's health to state, in which he was before his illness. So Drogo alive, but in catatonic state, was the original goal of that ritual. So the ritual went exactly how it should have. Thus there was nothing, that could have killed Rhaego.

And afterwards there was no body. No one else, aside of Mirri, didn't saw Dany's baby. And based on the way Mirri described Rhaego's birth, what she said about him, was a lie.

There's no reason, that could have caused Rhaego's death; we didn't saw his death; there was no body.

Rhaego's body wasn't burned on Drogo's funeral pyre. Three bodies (Drogo, Mirri, stallion) for three dragons (Drogon, Viseryon, Rhaegel). Fourth sacrifice doesn't fit into equation. Thus Rhaego's life wasn't payment for one of Dany's dragons.

Thus logical conclusion is that Rhaego is alive.

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On 5/19/2018 at 7:19 PM, manchester_babe said:

why is drogon dany's favourite dragon?

I wouldn't say he's the favorite child.  He just happens to be there when his Mom need him the most.  Drogon is always there for Daenerys.  The Mother of Dragons should have the largest dragon.  

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15 hours ago, Damsel in Distress said:

Many parents have favorites.  More than they will care to admit.  It's normal.  Although in our story it is also Drogon's choice.  He attaches himself to Dany.

Dragons are fire made flesh.  Dany is the bride of fire.  Drogon is Drogo reincarnated. 

The dragons are her Lightbringer.

 

5 hours ago, Springwatch said:

There might not be much to this question. Dragons don't like to 'share' their riders, so as soon as (unhatched) Drogon showed a slight preference for Dany, the others would sense the tiny link and be less likely to try and link up themselves.

Drogon is the Alpha among the dragons.  Daenerys will be the Alpha of House Targaryen.  It's a perfect pairing.

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3 hours ago, Megorova said:

snip

Yes, I've read your theory on Rhaego being alive. And like I said, sorry, but I don't buy it. Jorah, Irri, Jiqui, Dureah and her bloodriders would not simply accept MMD's word on the matter, nor would they lie to Dany. Who knows why evil shadow spirits kill some but not others? As Mirri admits to Dany, Rhaego's death paid for Drogo's life, such as it was:

Quote

"You warned me that only death could pay for life. I thought you meant his horse."

"No," Mirri Maz Duur said. "That was a lie you told yourself. You knew the price."

But this is all beside the point.

My theory is that Rhaego did in fact die and his remains were placed on the pyre, either unbeknownst to Dany or simply not mentioned in her POV. In this way, his remains are the same as Drogo's: a dead body but still a live spirit.

If animals' deaths could pay for people's (or dragons') lives, then anyone with a dead cat could hire the Faceless Men to kill a king.

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11 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

If animals' deaths could pay for people's (or dragons') lives, then anyone with a dead cat could hire the Faceless Men to kill a king.

Services of Faceless Men are bought with money, not with lives. They ask lots of money for any kill, and even more money for death of significant people. Death of someone like king or queen, will cost more than price of buying an entire army.

You can't buy services of Faceless Men by killing someone or something. Faceless Men has nothing to do with "life for life" equation. You misunderstood what sort of deal was between Arya and Jaqen and their three kills. It wasn't a business deal between Arya and Jaqen, it was a matter of restoring balance between R'hllor and the Stranger, that was disrupted by Arya on Jaqen's request, when Arya saved him and two others from R'hllor's fiery clutches. Three people were stolen from R'hllor, because servant of the Stranger asked an outsider to interfear in natural course of events, and prevent three people from burning alive. Thus later, to restore the balance, Jaqen had to kill three people, and give their souls to his master - Death, for him to pass them to R'hllor, as a compensation for previous steal.

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19 hours ago, Megorova said:

Services of Faceless Men are bought with money, not with lives. They ask lots of money for any kill, and even more money for death of significant people. Death of someone like king or queen, will cost more than price of buying an entire army.

You can't buy services of Faceless Men by killing someone or something. Faceless Men has nothing to do with "life for life" equation. You misunderstood what sort of deal was between Arya and Jaqen and their three kills. It wasn't a business deal between Arya and Jaqen, it was a matter of restoring balance between R'hllor and the Stranger, that was disrupted by Arya on Jaqen's request, when Arya saved him and two others from R'hllor's fiery clutches. Three people were stolen from R'hllor, because servant of the Stranger asked an outsider to interfear in natural course of events, and prevent three people from burning alive. Thus later, to restore the balance, Jaqen had to kill three people, and give their souls to his master - Death, for him to pass them to R'hllor, as a compensation for previous steal.

Some people pay in gold, some in goods, others whisper (a name, perhaps?) to the priests and then either drink from the fountain or are taken down to the lower sanctum never to be seen again, until someone else puts on their face.

Jaquen's deal with Arya had nothing at all to do with Rhollor or any kind of metaphysical imbalance. Jaquen (or technically, No One) does not even worship Rhollor. He worships the Many-Faced God. It had everything to do with forging a relationship with Arya because either 1) he knew who she was and/or 2) he saw her true worth and thought she would make a worthy acolyte. Honestly, do you think every time someone cheats death anywhere in the world an FM is dispatched to restore the balance between Rhollor and the Stranger?

Death does pay for life, all the time. Over and over again it is human death that pays for all kinds of things:

Melisandre doesn't burn horses or goats in her flames. When she does burn an animal, it is filled with the blood of humans, not chickens.

Victarion sends humans to the Drowned God, not animals.

Jaquen demanded three human deaths, not a pair of slugs for Rorge and Biter (which is about what they're worth) and an aurochs for himself.

Varys' wizard didn't burn the junk of a baboon to talk to his demon.

If all of these relatively minor events required the blood of humans, then it defies any and all logic to think that the most magical event of all, the birth of a dragon, can be done with a horse.

But I wish you all the best, Meg. May you find others who buy into your theory. I don't.

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21 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

If animals' deaths could pay for people's (or dragons') lives, then anyone with a dead cat could hire the Faceless Men to kill a king.

Okay, yeah, there is some sense in what you said. 

But on this line of thought, maybe that is why there are no animals in Asshai.  Everybody on their death bed gets saved at the 11th hour with a timely animal sacrifice.  Why stop there, anybody who died can be brought back to life with the sacrifice of a cow.  So that's why beef is in short supply in Asshai!  Hamburger costs more than rubies and sirloin is food fit for the gods.  So getting back to the topic, I do not really believe this is the case because I am in agreement with you.  If a horse's life can pay for a man's life there will be very few horses in the world and a helluva lot more people.  Like "standing-room-only" crowded with humans.  It takes a human life to bring back a human is what I am guessing.  Now, dragons are superior to humans so it goes with the reasoning that it will take a remarkable life like Drogo's to bring a dragon back to life.  Perhaps more than one human life to bring back a dragon.  It is necromancy you know.  

Readers should also consider the basic idea of sacrifice.  The execution of a traitor like MMD is not a worthy sacrifice.  It is written, Drogo, Rhaego, and Viserys all were kings in their own right and all three had the blood of kings.  So far as the dragons' names, well, they are simply names chosen by their mother.  The names do not have any significance other than the names appealed to Daenerys.  

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Quote

"You don't want to wake the dragon, do you?"

She saw sunlight on the Dothraki sea, the living plain, rich with the smells of earth and death. Wind stirred the grasses, and they rippled like water. Drogo held her in strong arms, and his hand stroked her sex and opened her and woke that sweet wetness that was his alone, and the stars smiled down on them, stars in a daylight sky. "Home," she whispered as he entered her and filled her with his seed, but suddenly the stars were gone, and across the blue sky swept the great wings, and the world took flame.

In a dream titled wake the dragon, she fucks Drogo, then a dragon comes.
 

Quote

"… don't want to wake the dragon …"

She could feel the heat inside her, a terrible burning in her womb. Her son was tall and proud, with Drogo's copper skin and her own silver-gold hair, violet eyes shaped like almonds. And he smiled for her and began to lift his hand toward hers, but when he opened his mouth the fire poured out. She saw his heart burning through his chest, and in an instant he was gone, consumed like a moth by a candle, turned to ash. She wept for her child, the promise of a sweet mouth on her breast, but her tears turned to steam as they touched her skin.

In the same, wake the dragon, dream, her would be son she conceived with Drogo turns into fire. You know how dragons are flesh made fire.

But yeah, let us concentrate on a horse. Specifically this one.

Quote

Ser Jorah had killed her son, Dany knew. He had done what he did for love and loyalty, yet he had carried her into a place no living man should go and fed her baby to the darkness. He knew it too; the grey face, the hollow eyes, the limp. "The shadows have touched you too, Ser Jorah," she told him. The knight made no reply. Dany turned to the godswife. "You warned me that only death could pay for life. I thought you meant the horse."

"No," Mirri Maz Duur said. "That was a lie you told yourself. You knew the price."

 

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6 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

Jaquen's deal with Arya had nothing at all to do with Rhollor or any kind of metaphysical imbalance.

ACOK, Arya VII:

"The Red God has his due, sweet girl, and only death may pay for life. This girl took three that were his. This girl must give three in their places. Speak the names, and a man will do the rest."

Red God is R'hllor. Arya took three people from R'hllor. She did so on Jaqen's request. If things went by their natural course, then Jaqen and other two were supposed to die, by burning alive. But Jaqen's request prevented it from happening, and thus, with Arya's help, Jaqen has stolen three souls, that rightfully belonged to R'hllor. Though Jaqen is just a mere "servant", he's not a player from Major League, he had no right to escape from prepared for him fate - death by burning alive, then and there. So he had to pay repercussions for his transgression. He had to give three souls to R'hllor, to compensate for those three, that were stolen from that deity. And based on the fact, that it wasn't necessary fot those three "compensations" to die by burning alive, even though that's the usual way of how exactly is made sacrifice to R'hllor, it seems that souls of three people, killed by Jaqen, were given to the Stranger/Death, Jaqen's boss, and from the Stranger passed on to R'hllor.

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On ‎5‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 8:10 PM, Megorova said:

ACOK, Arya VII:

"The Red God has his due, sweet girl, and only death may pay for life. This girl took three that were his. This girl must give three in their places. Speak the names, and a man will do the rest."

Red God is R'hllor. Arya took three people from R'hllor. She did so on Jaqen's request. If things went by their natural course, then Jaqen and other two were supposed to die, by burning alive. But Jaqen's request prevented it from happening, and thus, with Arya's help, Jaqen has stolen three souls, that rightfully belonged to R'hllor. Though Jaqen is just a mere "servant", he's not a player from Major League, he had no right to escape from prepared for him fate - death by burning alive, then and there. So he had to pay repercussions for his transgression. He had to give three souls to R'hllor, to compensate for those three, that were stolen from that deity. And based on the fact, that it wasn't necessary fot those three "compensations" to die by burning alive, even though that's the usual way of how exactly is made sacrifice to R'hllor, it seems that souls of three people, killed by Jaqen, were given to the Stranger/Death, Jaqen's boss, and from the Stranger passed on to R'hllor.

Sorry, you're not getting my point. The line about stealing lives from the red god is just BS that Jaqen uses to start his relationship with Arya. He is not a follower of the red god. He is not even Jaqen. He's No One.

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On ‎5‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 2:17 PM, Widowmaker 811 said:

Okay, yeah, there is some sense in what you said. 

But on this line of thought, maybe that is why there are no animals in Asshai.  Everybody on their death bed gets saved at the 11th hour with a timely animal sacrifice.  Why stop there, anybody who died can be brought back to life with the sacrifice of a cow.  So that's why beef is in short supply in Asshai!  Hamburger costs more than rubies and sirloin is food fit for the gods.  So getting back to the topic, I do not really believe this is the case because I am in agreement with you.  If a horse's life can pay for a man's life there will be very few horses in the world and a helluva lot more people.  Like "standing-room-only" crowded with humans.  It takes a human life to bring back a human is what I am guessing.  Now, dragons are superior to humans so it goes with the reasoning that it will take a remarkable life like Drogo's to bring a dragon back to life.  Perhaps more than one human life to bring back a dragon.  It is necromancy you know.  

Readers should also consider the basic idea of sacrifice.  The execution of a traitor like MMD is not a worthy sacrifice.  It is written, Drogo, Rhaego, and Viserys all were kings in their own right and all three had the blood of kings.  So far as the dragons' names, well, they are simply names chosen by their mother.  The names do not have any significance other than the names appealed to Daenerys.  

I wouldn't say dragons are superior to humans. They may have superior capabilities, but they appear to be animals nonetheless, with animal intelligence. Horses can run faster than humans, lions have sharper claws, dragons breathe fire, but that doesn't make them superior.

So, yes, Mel says it requires not just human blood to wake the stone dragon, but king's blood, so I don't think we should expect anything less to hatch generic, living dragons. But even then, I would not rule out MMD's blood here. For one thing, we don't know her backstory, so she may very well have king's blood. And secondly, as a maegi and a healer she would have held a high position in her culture, perhaps even wielding political power in her own right, which would make her the equivalent of a queen to the lamb men.

So my money is still on Drogo, Rhaego and MMD as the deaths for the dragon's lives. Using Viserys or Rhaegar as one of the lives makes as little sense as using an animal. If that's the way it worked, then anyone could use a past death as payment for an FM hit, as in: please kill the Sealord, and for payment you can have my mother's uncle's, cousin's great-grandma who died 50 years ago of the flux.

Traitors are used as sacrifices. Mel burned Alester Florent after his treason against Stannis, and it supposedly brought them favorable winds to the Wall. Stannis also burned the cannibals at the crofter's village, and it is still up in the air as to what will happen to Asha and Theon.

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On 5/24/2018 at 2:17 PM, Widowmaker 811 said:

I wouldn't say he's the favorite child.  He just happens to be there when his Mom need him the most.  Drogon is always there for Daenerys.  The Mother of Dragons should have the largest dragon.  

They chose each other is what I think.  The alpha dragon will get first choice and he would choose mom.  

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On 5/30/2018 at 4:09 PM, John Suburbs said:

Sorry, you're not getting my point. The line about stealing lives from the red god is just BS that Jaqen uses to start his relationship with Arya. He is not a follower of the red god. He is not even Jaqen. He's No One.

Or not...

Quote

"A man must be ashamed of the company he keeps, Arry," the handsome one said. "This man has the honor to be Jaqen H'ghar, once of the Free City of Lorath. Would that he were home. This man's ill-bred companions in captivity are named Rorge"—he waved his tankard at the noseless man—"and Biter." Biter hissed at her again, displaying a mouthful of yellowed teeth filed into points. "A man must have some name, is that not so? Biter cannot speak and Biter cannot write, yet his teeth are very sharp, so a man calls him Biter and he smiles. Are you charmed?"

Arya II, Clash 5

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On ‎5‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 9:37 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:

Or not...

Arya II, Clash 5

Sure, he has to call him something, so Biter it is. And at the moment, this particular Faceless Man calls himself Jaqen H'ghar. But as we see from Arya's training, the first requirement of an FM is to surrender your identity to become No One. After that, you can don faces and assume new identities as needed.

So it is extremely unlikely that this man's real name is Jaqen H'ghar, just as it is extremely unlikely that he is an alchemist.

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