If Robb was truly honorable, he would've wed and bed Roslin at the Twins before his campaign

[Adam Yozza]

Because of time. Even a rushed wedding would take a day or so seeing as Robb would have to pick which Frey girl to marry (some people seem to be taking for granted that its Roslin, ignoring that the deal was that Robb could choose his bride), they'd have to find a Septon (there's probably one at the Twins but no guarantee) and then the actual ceremony. All of this would take time they didn't have.

I agree once Riverrun was liberated and Ned was killed, Robb probably should have married and worked on getting an heir straight away. Although now that I think about it wasn't the agreement that the weddings would take place after the war was over? So he got a squire to an LP's heir and two wards at Winterfell immediately and an oath for two marriages in what was assumed to be the near future. That looks like hedging his bets to me. Immediate lesser rewards but without tying himself too closely to a ship that may yet sink. But if it doesn't then he has bigger rewards to come.

[Angel Eyes]

So I have two questions: 

1. What made Hoster Tully commit to supporting the Rebels in Robert’s Rebellion?
2. Which Frey was promised to Robb?

[kissdbyfire]

5 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

So I have two questions: 

1. What made Hoster Tully commit to supporting the Rebels in Robert’s Rebellion?
2. Which Frey was promised to Robb?

1- Ned and Jon Arryn bethrotals to Cat and Lysa respectively.

2 - Robb was going to pick one of Walder Frey's daughters.

[Melisandre's Rubies]

8 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

How much preparation was put into Catelyn’s marriage to Ned?

Well, there was a lot of time put into arranging an preparing for her marriage to Brandon. After he was killed an Aerys called for Ned and Robert's heads, several months passed before the marriages between the Tully girls and Ned and Jon. 
Jon Arryn called his banners and the other two left the Eyrie to return home.  Robert and Jon took on Gulltown before Robert left for Storm's End to call in his bannermen, fought multiple battles to consolidate his power and support in the Stormlands before heading back up North.  It took Ned months just to make it back to Winterfell to be able to raise his banners, time for them to get to Winterfell, and then move south. Hoster joined the rebels after securing a betrothal between Ned and Cat, which would have allowed some of the original wedding preparation to remain the same. Jon Arryn negotiated the dual wedding after the Battle of the Bells, in which Hoster fought with them and was wounded, to secure the alliance which was the portion that was rushed. It would have taken some time to get a wounded Hoster, as well as Jon, Ned, and Robert, back to Riverrun for the actual ceremony. They all spent the next two weeks there following the wedding, Robb did not have that time as Ned was still in captivity and Robb was moving into battle. Even with the more hastily put together union of Lysa and Jon, there was significantly more time spent in preparation for Cat's wedding to Ned. It was not done in a matter of hours.

Also, remember that Walder did not commit to the rebellion until it was all but won. Waiting benefitted him in not choosing sides entirely before any battles had been fought and the outcome known. It also allowed him to play the sides against each other and provided him leverage to use in making the best deal he could regardless of the outcome. On Robb's side, delaying the marriage should have forced Walder to commit to Robb's cause to actually secure all the betrothals, as Arya was also promised to one of his sons. They didn't even have Arya with them, and she was too young, for a marriage to occur at that time.
"Also, if your sister Arya is returned to us safely, it is agreed that she will marry Lord Walder's youngest son, Elmar, when the two of them come of age." AGoT- Catelyn IX

As was already mentioned, if Robb had wedded and bedded one of Walder's daughters/granddaughters at the time (it wouldn't have necessarily been Roslyn, no girl was specified) and Robb was killed the Freys would potentially hold control over Winterfell through their child. If that happened, it would have given Walder even more of a reason to betray Robb. He'd have his heir and then support of Tywin and the crown.

[Ylath's Snout]

1 hour ago, Megorova said:

maybe they didn't even had a septon in their castle at that time;

Do an Northen marriage then. The Freys don't strike me as overly pious.

-----------------------------------

1 hour ago, Megorova said:

as other people has mentioned above, it was too risky for Walder to marry one of Freys to a rebel.

 

1 hour ago, Megorova said:

he did it without knowing, that they were going into war against Lannisters and Crown.

I suspect that the Lannisters would have been way harder on the Freys if the RW hadn't, seemingly, completely wiped out the Stark other than Sansa and delivered plenty of valuable hostages into the Crowns control.

Some sort of "oh little old me didn't know about any of this war business"-excuse isn't likely to go over well with Tywin "I drowned a castle worth of men, women and children" Lannister.

Assuming he is a scared of Lannister retaliation he could have asked for other things like tax relief, land-grants in the North or any number of other less "binding" things.

IF Walder wanted a greater opportunity to be a bragard then it should have been mentioned somewhere in the text. As it stands I personally believe that Walder Frey as written would be much more interested in some mildly-wild Robb and Roslin action to get a Frey-Stark first in-line to Winterfell ASAP.

[Chancho]

Maybe wait for the War to end was better anyway... If Robb lose and the odds were good, Walder is not in any more deep ties to the traitor than anyone else, this marriage at the time was only a risk and gamble Frey took it, Robb of course has not much respect for the Freys who gave him a chance to win and bled for him, but Walder only discover that later... So he only manage to get fucked by this relation to the Young Wolf.

[Ylath's Snout]

Just now, Chancho said:

So he only manage to get fucked by this relation to the Young Wolf.

yeah sure, Walder really got the short end of that relationship in the end...

Not like his House pretty much runs the Riverlands right now or anything.

[Chancho]

You know this is because of Tywin not Robb...Leaving Robb gave him that.

[Bernie Mac]

12 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

How much preparation was put into Catelyn’s marriage to Ned?

Certainly more than a few hours.  The marriage alliance between the heir of Winterfell n the daughter of Hoster Tully was years in the making. 

"He wrote to me at Riverrun after Brandon was killed, but I burned the letter unread. By then I knew that Ned would marry me in his brother's place."

Cat knew that the marriage was going to happen, Ned did not just arrive at Riverrun and negotiate a marriage alliance. 

9 hours ago, Ylath's Snout said:

Yeah, or Roslin could have been brought along to Riverrun if time was that much of an issue. Heck bring along several girl if Robb wants to have a pick. Not having a fancy wedding during wartime isn't something Cat or Ned ever gets any guff about or seems to care much about.

Robb could have done that, instead he chose to go West and remain there for half a year. The delay on the marriage is on Robb, not Walder. 

"Mother, are you certain you will not consent to go to the Twins? You would be farther from the fighting, and you could acquaint yourself with Lord Frey's daughters to help me choose my bride when the war is done."

 

[Ylath's Snout]

3 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

The delay on the marriage is on Robb, not Walder. 

(Assuming that Walder isn't planning on turning on Robb this early.) I'd be kicking up much more of a stink about this if I were Walder. Getting a Frey-Stark baby going seems like to should be close to a top priority seeing as there is still plenty of fighting going adn Robb might die at any point.

[Bernie Mac]

12 minutes ago, Ylath's Snout said:

(Assuming that Walder isn't planning on turning on Robb this early.)

He still could, that does not mean he would forfeit the only reason he a got into a war that has lost him his heir and almost a 1k Frey men. He would have weakened himself for exactly no reason. 

It is actually in his best interest to have Robb marry and impregnate a Frey before he turns against him as the Frey's would then be in possession of the next lord of the North. 

12 minutes ago, Ylath's Snout said:

 

I'd be kicking up much more of a stink about this if I were Walder.

Why? He has no reason to suspect Robb would go back on his word. 

Robb needed to get to Riverrun as soon as possible, he did not even have time to go and talk to Walder after the arrangement was made, he rode on. 

12 minutes ago, Ylath's Snout said:

 

Getting a Frey-Stark baby going seems like to should be close to a top priority seeing as there is still plenty of fighting going adn Robb might die at any point.

And it may well have annoyed Walder. Given that between Cat's negotiation and the Red Wedding we don't see him it is impossible to say how vext he was about the situation. But Robb was in the West, constantly on the move. Walder is not in a positon, especially once Robb was crowned, to order Robb back. 

[Ylath's Snout]

10 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

Why? He has no reason to suspect Robb would go back on his word. 

Because of: 

 

10 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

It is actually in his best interest to have Robb marry and impregnate a Frey before he turns against him as the Frey's would then be in possession of the next lord of the North. 

There are several reasons to get with the baby making. Robb dying during fighting or if Walder turns on him. If he wanted a fancy wedding with all the Riverlord attending it is Walder pried that screwed him.

------------

12 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

But Robb was in the West, constantly on the move. Walder is not in a positon, especially once Robb was crowned, to order Robb back.

It might be hindsight creeping in but Walder should have pushed for a quick match at the Twins or Riverrun if he really cared about the marriage from a dynastic p-o-w.

[Bernie Mac]

3 minutes ago, Ylath's Snout said:

Because of: 

Because it is not the done thing to do in Westeros. It is uncommon for nobles to break such agreements.  He had no reason to think the son of Ned and Cat would lie. 

 

3 minutes ago, Ylath's Snout said:

There are several reasons to get with the baby making. Robb dying during fighting or if Walder turns on him

Exactly, so there is zero reason why Walder would have been the one to delay the wedding. 

3 minutes ago, Ylath's Snout said:

If he wanted a fancy wedding with all the Riverlord attending it is Walder pried that screwed him.

No one claimed a fancy wedding. Robb arrived and left within hours. Can you name another noble marriage in the entire series arranged and carried out that quickly? 

Walder and Robb are not psychic, they had no idea that Ned would be executed and that the conflict would turn into the war of the five kings. 

3 minutes ago, Ylath's Snout said:

------------

It might be hindsight creeping in but Walder should have pushed for a quick match at the Twins or Riverrun if he really cared about the marriage from a dynastic p-o-w.

Why would Cat agree to that? 

The whole reason breaking guest rights is such a huge taboo in Westeros is that word is supposed to be a bond. No one is under the impression that Robb would fuck over the alliance the first opportunity he gets. 

[Angel Eyes]

3 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

1- Ned and Jon Arryn bethrotals to Cat and Lysa respectively.

2 - Robb was going to pick one of Walder Frey's daughters.

1. I guess I was asking what made Hoster Tully throw his lot with the Rebels after Brandon died? Why not cut his losses and support the Targaryens?

[Bernie Mac]

1 minute ago, Angel Eyes said:

1. I guess I was asking what made Hoster Tully throw his lot with the Rebels after Brandon died? Why not cut his losses and support the Targaryens?

I'd guess that despite their title of Overlords of the Riverlands other Houses, such as the Darry's and Mootons, had more influence and favor from the Targaryens than the Tully's did. This is actaully long standing as there has been quite a few more prominent Riverland families in the royal court in the last century or so, with the likes of the Blackwoods, Brackens, Smallwoods and Butterwell's all enjoying close ties to the royal court at some point.   Perhaps the Targaryen wedding snub was something that had pissed House Tully off for a number of years and that Hoster was happy to be able to avenge that broken promise. 

There are many reasonable reasons why Hoster picked the one side overt the over, I don't think it is that shocking. 

 

 

[Nittanian]

24 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

1. I guess I was asking what made Hoster Tully throw his lot with the Rebels after Brandon died? Why not cut his losses and support the Targaryens?

Aerys also killed Mallisters, who are Tully bannermen, potentially making Hoster less inclined to support the Targaryens.

Quote

"Ethan Glover was Brandon's squire," Catelyn said. "He was the only one to survive. The others were Jeffory Mallister, Kyle Royce, and Elbert Arryn, Jon Arryn's nephew and heir." It was queer how she still remembered the names, after so many years. "Aerys accused them of treason and summoned their fathers to court to answer the charge, with the sons as hostages. When they came, he had them murdered without trial. Fathers and sons both." (ACOK Catelyn VII)

Catelyn feels her father still had to be negotiated into rebellion, however.

Quote

If she had lost a child before, that might explain Father's words, and much else besides . . . Lysa's match with Lord Arryn had been hastily arranged, and Jon was an old man even then, older than their father. An old man without an heir. His first two wives had left him childless, his brother's son had been murdered with Brandon Stark in King's Landing, his gallant cousin had died in the Battle of the Bells. He needed a young wife if House Arryn was to continue . . . a young wife known to be fertile.

Catelyn rose, threw on a robe, and descended the steps to the darkened solar to stand over her father. A sense of helpless dread filled her. "Father," she said, "Father, I know what you did." She was no longer an innocent bride with a head full of dreams. She was a widow, a traitor, a grieving mother, and wise, wise in the ways of the world. "You made him take her," she whispered. "Lysa was the price Jon Arryn had to pay for the swords and spears of House Tully."

Small wonder her sister's marriage had been so loveless. The Arryns were proud, and prickly of their honor. Lord Jon might wed Lysa to bind the Tullys to the cause of the rebellion, and in hopes of a son, but it would have been hard for him to love a woman who came to his bed soiled and unwilling. He would have been kind, no doubt; dutiful, yes; but Lysa needed warmth. (ASOS Catelyn I)

 

[Chris Mormont]

There were reasons for both sides to delay the marriage, and we do not know if either side requested or even considered it. 

From Walder's perspective, if Robb is unsuccessful, why become related to traitors.  He was doing his duty by allowing the Northern Army across the Twins to aide his Liege Lord.  But to marry into the Starks would have brought harsher consequences.  Walder does not believe Robb will beat Tywin, so this is a longshot which only provides an upside.

From Cat's perspective, if Robb were to be killed, either Bran or Rickon would inherit Winterfell, not some Frey raised baby.

[Ylath's Snout]

2 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

Because it is not the done thing to do in Westeros. It is uncommon for nobles to break such agreements.  He had no reason to think the son of Ned and Cat would lie. 

I meant that the quote of you saying "It is actually in his best interest to have Robb marry and impregnate a Frey before he turns against him as the Frey's would then be in possession of the next lord of the North. " as another reason for a quick wedding.

3 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

Exactly, so there is zero reason why Walder would have been the one to delay the wedding.

Sure, but it is never made clear in the book that Robb was dodging the wedding. A thorw away line somewere could have made it clearer.

3 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

The whole reason breaking guest rights is such a huge taboo in Westeros is that word is supposed to be a bond. No one is under the impression that Robb would fuck over the alliance the first opportunity he gets.

Ehh, I don't think that breaking the marriage-pact is breaking Guest Rights. If Robb wanted to screw the Freys he would have murdered them as his army passed through the Twins or something like that.

[John Suburbs]

Speed was of the essence. Robb has to get to Riverrun ASAP, and a marriage plus long enough to get his new bride with child would have taken at least two weeks, maybe longer depending on when her moon blood is due. If Tywin makes a break for Riverrun and reconnoiters with Jaime's host, forget about lifting the siege. Robb maybe could have sent his army ahead under Blackfish's command, but what kind of leader sends his men off to fight and die while he lolls around getting laid? And he couldn't very well take his new bride on campaign with him. Too dangerous.

Also, just for clarity's sake, Robb is not yet King of the North at the time the pact is made. So Lord Walder is getting the Ladyship of Winterfell out of this deal, not yet a Queen of the North.

And I don't think Robb broke his promise to the Freys willingly or of his own volition. It was a combination of Milk of the Poppy and one of Grandma Maggy's love potions that did it. Crafty Tywin.

[Ylath's Snout]

32 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

It was a combination of Milk of the Poppy and one of Grandma Maggy's love potions that did it. Crafty Tywin.

Robb needed more levels in Paladin. Pretty sure they get bonuses to ressisting breaking the code of conduct.

Ranger/Paladin is weird multiclass combo any way. ^^