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HBO's Westworld VII: Abort?.Retry.Fail


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I loved the Shogun World segments, they were beautiful and ethereal, but it seems like a lot of effort and cost for so little pay off if we never see those characters again.

unlike most, I was unmoved by Ed and his daughter's chat, it was totally predictable and bland.

I will now root for Teddy to fuck over Dolores-Wyatt, because man, she really sucks.

Why does Angela follow Dolores?  I'd like to see a little more development for her.

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10 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Sorry, this thread never used spoiler tags, you want to start now? *shrugs*

Of course there's no need for tags when discussing episodes that have already aired. But some of us have elected not to watch the trailers because of the spoilers. I don't think it's an unreasonable request.

 

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1 hour ago, Fragile Bird said:

 

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Have we ever seen Charlotte and Bernard in an interaction?

 

I don't understand your question. There have been numerous scenes with those two characters. 

 

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17 minutes ago, Relic said:

I don't understand your question. There have been numerous scenes with those two characters. 

 

I have to continue with my re-watch, then. There have been scenes with both them in it, but I can't off-hand recall them talking to each other for any serious length of time. No real interaction between them. Of course there could have been, this series is so action packed I might simply not be remembering. It's just that the thought occurred, how long has she known? And how many people also know? 

eta: And that doesn't mean she thinks he's not real, just that there are copies?

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44 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Of course there's no need for tags when discussing episodes that have already aired. But some of us have elected not to watch the trailers because of the spoilers. I don't think it's an unreasonable request.

 

Well, when we saw glimpses of Shogun World everyone got excited and talked about it, and that was a pretty damn big spoiler, and no one said boo, so I was surprised. And actually I think every single trailer has been discussed so far, lol!

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1 hour ago, Fragile Bird said:

That’s an interesting idea, it would be another stunt, but I don’t think so. There are flashbacks to some task Ford sent Bernard on, where he goes to the secret lab and takes the control ball, and there are switches back and forth between right after the rebellion start to 2 weeks later when the hosts are found in the lake. At this point in the season we are well into that two week period, about day 6 or 7. Did Stubbs mention how many days when Charlotte pulled out the yellow-cased laptop? And Bernard has memory lapses because of the brain fluid he lost when he started to leak after the shot he took to the head. Elsie added fluid, but he needs more repairs.

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But it was a shock to see 3 or 4 other Bernards being uncovered by Charlotte in next week’s trailer. Have we ever seen Charlotte and Bernard in an interaction?

 

Yes, they have. They were together for the first two episodes.

The reason I'm beginning to suspect the Bernard storylines aren't just the same guy at multiple points in time is that I'm not sure the guy at the beginning of Episode 1 has a scar on his right temple. He also seems really, really out of sorts.  Like he is confused and disoriented or he really has no idea what's going on.  What if the flash forward/flash backs are really cutting from one to the other?

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3 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

I have to continue with my re-watch, then. There have been scenes with both them in it, but I can't off-hand recall them talking to each other for any serious length of time. No real interaction between them. Of course there could have been, this series is so action packed I might simply not be remembering. It's just that the thought occurred, how long has she known? And how many people also know? 

eta: And that doesn't mean she thinks he's not real, just that there are copies?

She almost certainly knows Bernard is a host, given how she has treated him this season.

 

There are fan theories out there that the Bernard we see two weeks after the uprising, the one that wakes up in the beach, is being run through a looped similuation to covertly uncover information he is holding. If so, Charlotte is definitely in on it. 

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3 minutes ago, Relic said:

She almost certainly knows Bernard is a host, given how she has treated him this season.

 

There are fan theories out there that the Bernard we see two weeks after the uprising, the one that wakes up in the beach, is being run through a looped similuation to covertly uncover information he is holding. If so, Charlotte is definitely in on it. 

That's really interesting.  Also interesting is that Charlotte is totally absent in the flash forward scenes.

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39 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Yes, they have. They were together for the first two episodes.

The reason I'm beginning to suspect the Bernard storylines aren't just the same guy at multiple points in time is that I'm not sure the guy at the beginning of Episode 1 has a scar on his right temple. He also seems really, really out of sorts.  Like he is confused and disoriented or he really has no idea what's going on.  What if the flash forward/flash backs are really cutting from one to the other?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! I have been doing a season 1 re-watch and my brain has been so focussed on season 1 I wasn't even thinking about Bernard and Charlotte being together for 2 days, lol. It's amazing how you can get tunnel vision! :lol:

And, as I recall now, we had that discussion about Bernard getting into the lab with his DNA identity. So I would guess Charlotte at that point at least has no idea Bernard is a host.

39 minutes ago, Relic said:

She almost certainly knows Bernard is a host, given how she has treated him this season.

 

There are fan theories out there that the Bernard we see two weeks after the uprising, the one that wakes up in the beach, is being run through a looped similuation to covertly uncover information he is holding. If so, Charlotte is definitely in on it. 

But....it seemed like we all thought Ford had Bernard's identity in the system so Charlotte did not suspect he was a host. What do you mean, 'the way she treated him'?

And I don't believe Bernard waking on the beach is in a loop. And as was just mentioned, we don't see her in the most recent time period, so I suspect she bites the dust in the battle about to happen.

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I don't think Charlotte knew Bernard was a host, she talks to him like he's human.  It's probable that she doesn't make it to the most current timeline we see Bernard/Arnold in.  Nail gunning Abernathy to the chair was the last straw, she needs to die, hopefully Bernard takes her out in style.

So, is my theory proven correct yet?  That the first scene of the season is Dolores prepping Bernard and not Arnold at all? 

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4 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

 I don't think Charlotte knew Bernard was a host, she talks to him like he's human.  It's probable that she doesn't make it to the most current timeline we see Bernard/Arnold in.  Nail gunning Abernathy to the chair was the last straw, she needs to die, hopefully Bernard takes her out in style.

So, is my theory proven correct yet?  That the first scene of the season is Dolores prepping Bernard and not Arnold at all? 

Lol, I've been suspicious of that from the beginning. I was just wondering if the very first time we saw Dolores and Arnold/Bernard together in Season 1, Episode 1, we saw the past or the present. I need to go back and look at his clothing in the scene. It seemed to me he was wearing the same clothing in both seasons.

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8 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! I have been doing a season 1 re-watch and my brain has been so focussed on season 1 I wasn't even thinking about Bernard and Charlotte being together for 2 days, lol. It's amazing how you can get tunnel vision! :lol:

And, as I recall now, we had that discussion about Bernard getting into the lab with his DNA identity. So I would guess Charlotte at that point at least has no idea Bernard is a host.

But....it seemed like we all thought Ford had Bernard's identity in the system so Charlotte did not suspect he was a host. What do you mean, 'the way she treated him'?

And I don't believe Bernard waking on the beach is in a loop. And as was just mentioned, we don't see her in the most recent time period, so I suspect she bites the test in the battle about to happen.

What if her secret facility isn't so secret after all and Ford coded everything in the park to read Bernard as human.  He can be kind of tricky that way.  He'd kind of have to right? 

8 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I don't think Charlotte knew Bernard was a host, she talks to him like he's human.  It's probable that she doesn't make it to the most current timeline we see Bernard/Arnold in.  Nail gunning Abernathy to the chair was the last straw, she needs to die, hopefully Bernard takes her out in style.

So, is my theory proven correct yet?  That the first scene of the season is Dolores prepping Bernard and not Arnold at all? 

Oh, that's interesting. I thought (like everyone else probably) she turned the tables on him in the E6 prologue, but that works much better.

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7 minutes ago, Guy Kilmore said:

Bernard is in the cradle, so if there is other Bernards, perhaps they all have an element of him because of their ability to interface with the Cradle.

Ah, yes, I meant to make this point as well. And another point I meant to make. Because The Cradle exists, all the histories of all the hosts exist. Ford has broken open the whatever security block there was and allowed hosts to access all their memories. But not all hosts seem to be doing this, some seem stuck in their loops. And the impact is different in other ways. The hosts in Shogun World, for example, did not have the same desires the Westworld hosts do. I found that really interesting, which is why I said upthread that it's like an experiment in humanity is going on.

Something else I wanted to mention. In Season 1, when Sizemore tries to present his new storyline, shot down by Ford, Ford says to him that the storyline reveals more about Sizemore than it would reveal about guests. As I watched him interacting with Maeve I wondered who he based Maeve on. I hope he lives long enough to tell us.

Oh, and another thought. So many hosts are slaughtering each other, because of their storylines, there must be a very sharp drop in the number of hosts overall. I wonder if the 2nd rescue team, the one that came in at the end of the two weeks, could tell if all the hosts were there in the lake. I assume these were only Westworld hosts. Although they were still looking for Abernathy, so perhaps Dolores escaped with him. Teddy didn't.

 

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9 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Ah, yes, I meant to make this point as well. And another point I meant to make. Because The Cradle exists, all the histories of all the hosts exist. Ford has broken open the whatever security block there was and allowed hosts to access all their memories. But not all hosts seem to be doing this, some seem stuck in their loops. And the impact is different in other ways. The hosts in Shogun World, for example, did not have the same desires the Westworld hosts do. I found that really interesting, which is why I said upthread that it's like an experiment in humanity is going on.

Something else I wanted to mention. In Season 1, when Sizemore tries to present his new storyline, shot down by Ford, Ford says to him that the storyline reveals more about Sizemore than it would reveal about guests. As I watched him interacting with Maeve I wondered who he based Maeve on. I hope he lives long enough to tell us.

Oh, and another thought. So many hosts are slaughtering each other, because of their storylines, there must be a very sharp drop in the number of hosts overall. I wonder if the 2nd rescue team, the one that came in at the end of the two weeks, could tell if all the hosts were there in the lake. I assume these were only Westworld hosts. Although they were still looking for Abernathy, so perhaps Dolores escaped with him. Teddy didn't.

 

Or a version of Teddy didn't.  Because they found that a couple of the Cortex of the Hosts were blank that they recovered from the lake.  We aren't sure if they found "Teddy" or if they found a Dummy.

My theory is that Dolores is after the Cradle, which is why she is willing to sacrifice the other hosts.  If she can some how do something with the Cradle database she could save most of her people as they would all be "backed" up.  She is also in the cradle and she might be trying to secure herself.

So, we "experienced" how a host gains sentience with Dolores in Season 1; is it possible that Bernard is going through the same process in Season 2?

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1 hour ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

That's really interesting.  Also interesting is that Charlotte is totally absent in the flash forward scenes.

Well Charlotte is standing between Dolores and Abernathy, and the Dolores' train just entered the Mesa, so I would say there is a good chance either Charlotte does not survive the next episode or she is Dolores's prisoner.  

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5 minutes ago, Leofric said:

Well Charlotte is standing between Dolores and Abernathy, and the Dolores' train just entered the Mesa, so I would say there is a good chance either Charlotte does not survive the next episode or she is Dolores's prisoner.  

That would be interesting.  Or, not, since Dolores/Wyatt mostly monologues at people instead of conversing.  But Charlotte Hale getting a taste of a sentient robot with her level of ruthlessness could be most entertaining.

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