HBO's Westworld VII: Abort?.Retry.Fail

[RumHam]

1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

If I knew my partner's favorite thing in the entire world was to kill, torture and rape robots that were totally life-like, who bled, who felt emotion and pain....yeah, I'd be scared too.  

Yeah, you're absolutely right. So far we have no indication he's violent in the real world but there's a decent chance that he was. But I do think it's possible we're about to get a reveal that she killed herself because she was scared he would scan her brain and make a robot version of her to do whatever too.

[Cas Stark]

36 minutes ago, dooog said:

The whole episode I kept thinking to myself, what exactly is Ake's plan here? Find his wife, take her to the door, somehow make it through Delos to the outside world and then what exactly? get a job in Starbucks?

 

Also, as I've found my interest waning this season I haven't really been playing close attention... but where exactly does Ford exist right now? He no longer has a physical form so he uploaded his mind to where exactly? as a part of Bernard? does that mean he gets erased if/when they pull the plug on Bernard ?

He was in the matrix   cradle, where they keep the backed up host 'minds' and now he's uploaded into Bernarnold.  So, yeah, I guess it's possible if they erase Bernard they could erase Ford as well.  

[dooog]

1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

He was in the matrix   cradle, where they keep the backed up host 'minds' and now he's uploaded into Bernarnold.  So, yeah, I guess it's possible if they erase Bernard they could erase Ford as well.  

That's what I thought.  That in itself seems a bit iffy, considering that Bernard plugged himself into the cradle right before Dolores and her merry mob blew it all up, Ford probably knew she would do then it seems highly convenient that Bernard with all his trials and tribulations just about managed to plug himself in right before that happened. It's highly unlikely Ford would put his consciousness in such jeopardy, knowing Dolores' intentions.

It seems awfully convenient, unless there's some second secret hidden backup which only Ford knows about

[Astromech]

I'm usually not a fan of detour, stand-alone episodes, but this was one of my fav episodes of the season. (Maybe that says more about my opinion of this season than the episode itself.) It's interesting to see how various hosts react to their "awakenings". I wonder how many petri dishes Ford is observing during his little experiment in the park.

I appreciated how Kohana represented the figure at the center of the maze for Ake.

[dbunting]

11 hours ago, dooog said:

The whole episode I kept thinking to myself, what exactly is Ake's plan here? Find his wife, take her to the door, somehow make it through Delos to the outside world and then what exactly? get a job in Starbucks?

 

Yep, he has no idea where he is trying to go, it's more of where he is trying to get away from. 

 

Silly side question. Do the hosts need to eat and drink? We see the tribe drying meat and fish as a part of their loop, but do they actually eat it and then digest it in any way? If they don't eat it, what happens to that food when they reset, is it real food or fake? I guess they could just be programmed to inspect it daily and that's it?

[Fragile Bird]

1 hour ago, dbunting said:

Silly side question. Do the hosts need to eat and drink? We see the tribe drying meat and fish as a part of their loop, but do they actually eat it and then digest it in any way? If they don't eat it, what happens to that food when they reset, is it real food or fake? I guess they could just be programmed to inspect it daily and that's it?

Well, we certainly see them drink all the time. Maeve and Teddy and other hosts in the bar, and Dolores had milk in their house, milk being infamously used when the host that had been in on the raid on her house went sideways and shot everyone up.

I bet they do eat, so they seem more realistic to guests. Isaac Asimov famously had his robots eat and then remove the masticated food from their bellies by an access point and dispose of the food. I bet these robots have built-in waste disposal units, perhaps burning off the food internally and evaporating liquids.

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

3 minutes ago, Casablanca Birdie said:

Well, we certainly see them drink all the time. Maeve and Teddy and other hosts in the bar, and Dolores had milk in their house, milk being infamously used when the host that had been in on the raid on her house went sideways and shot everyone up.

I bet they do eat, so they seem more realistic to guests. Isaac Asimov famously had his robots eat and then remove the masticated food from their bellies by an access point and dispose of the food. I bet these robots have built-in waste disposal units, perhaps burning off the food internally and evaporating liquids.

I figured it was kind of like on TNG with Data. He was able eat and drink and his body converted it to lubricant or coolant or something.

[Born Yesterday]

15 hours ago, dooog said:

The whole episode I kept thinking to myself, what exactly is Ake's plan here? Find his wife, take her to the door, somehow make it through Delos to the outside world and then what exactly? get a job in Starbucks?

Freeze Neo at the moment he's choosing a pill: what's his plan after getting out of the Matrix? Take The Truman Show ending: what's Truman's plan after going through that door? At that moment, it simply doesn't matter. It's such a huge step, to leave behind the only world you've ever known and step out to the complete unknown, that everything else is secondary. And NOT having a plan, or the faintest idea what's going to happen next, reinforces the gravity of that choice. The story may come back to what happens next, or maybe it won't, depending on what it's trying to say. But as a character choice, it makes perfect sense.

I mean, this isn't just a mundane escape, so it can't have - and doesn't need - meticulous planning. It's transcendence. If you already knew what's ahead, and could plan around it, it wouldn't be such a big deal in the first place.

[.H.]

1 hour ago, Born Yesterday said:

I mean, this isn't just a mundane escape, so it can't have - and doesn't need - meticulous planning. It's transcendence. If you already knew what's ahead, and could plan around it, it wouldn't be such a big deal in the first place.

Yes, although, also in a way it's a return to the natural state.  Or the primordial state.  Or the correct state, if you will.  He is convinced he is in the wrong world, the wrong state, so his default reaction is to try to return to the correct one.  What does he think will happen?  Well, he thinks things will be right again.  He doesn't need a plan then, if he returns to the right world things will be as they should be and his instincts will be sufficient.  That is, he will return to his "normal" life, that is, the original life he remembers.

It's a modern spin on an archetypal story though, it doesn't need a heap of rationality to help it really.

[williamjm]

5 hours ago, dbunting said:

Silly side question. Do the hosts need to eat and drink? We see the tribe drying meat and fish as a part of their loop, but do they actually eat it and then digest it in any way? If they don't eat it, what happens to that food when they reset, is it real food or fake? I guess they could just be programmed to inspect it daily and that's it?

We know the host's bodies have become more human-like over time (William complains about this in the first season), so it would be consistent if they were able to consume food and drink as we do.

At the time William thinks the changes were because it made them cheaper than the original more mechanical models, but I wonder if that was really Ford's motivation. If he ever intended them to exist outside the park then making them closer to humans would help.

1 hour ago, Born Yesterday said:

I mean, this isn't just a mundane escape, so it can't have - and doesn't need - meticulous planning. It's transcendence. If you already knew what's ahead, and could plan around it, it wouldn't be such a big deal in the first place.

Yes, it's more a religious belief that Ake has than any kind of detailed plan. In some respects it might be irrational but it also seems to be one of the most human things we've seen any of the hosts do.

[RumHam]

26 minutes ago, williamjm said:

We know the host's bodies have become more human-like over time (William complains about this in the first season), so it would be consistent if they were able to consume food and drink as we do.

We've never heard anything about batteries in the hosts, right? Dolores has yet to express concern about running out of power. I wonder if eating and drinking somehow powers their organic parts and maybe even their robo-brains.  

[williamjm]

5 minutes ago, RumHam said:

We've never heard anything about batteries in the hosts, right? Dolores has yet to express concern about running out of power. I wonder if eating and drinking somehow powers their organic parts and maybe even their robo-brains.  

If Ake has been wandering around for the best part of the decade you'd think he must be getting energy from somewhere, unless their power technology is far in advance of anything we can make today (which isn't impossible given some of the other technology we see).

[TheKitttenGuard]

42 minutes ago, williamjm said:

At the time William thinks the changes were because it made them cheaper than the original more mechanical models, but I wonder if that was really Ford's motivation. If he ever intended them to exist outside the park then making them closer to humans would help.

Since they discuss of how the host will be cheaper being made of flesh and bone than mechanical I say the decision was made by Delos Corporate board and not by Ford. 

I think Ford had a line in S1, to paraphrase, "They say it was to give a more authentic experience but it was just cheaper to use flash and bone." It is kind of strange commentary that making the Host more Human like is cheaper then being fully mechanical. 

[dooog]

8 hours ago, Born Yesterday said:

Freeze Neo at the moment he's choosing a pill: what's his plan after getting out of the Matrix? Take The Truman Show ending: what's Truman's plan after going through that door? At that moment, it simply doesn't matter. It's such a huge step, to leave behind the only world you've ever known and step out to the complete unknown, that everything else is secondary. And NOT having a plan, or the faintest idea what's going to happen next, reinforces the gravity of that choice. The story may come back to what happens next, or maybe it won't, depending on what it's trying to say. But as a character choice, it makes perfect sense.

I mean, this isn't just a mundane escape, so it can't have - and doesn't need - meticulous planning. It's transcendence. If you already knew what's ahead, and could plan around it, it wouldn't be such a big deal in the first place.

Those examples aren't really comparable. In this instance, it's admirable that he's fleeing, and the show clearly wants its audience to root for him get away from this cruel world. However in practicality, if the audience considers it for a moment they realise he wouldn't last 2 days in the real world and sneaking out and making it work is impossible,  there's nothing to for us to get behind. With Neo it's a mystery door in a science fiction world the audience is already privy to and with Truman he'd be in for a shock but the audience knows he has enough basic understanding and skill to survive the outside.

[dbunting]

6 hours ago, williamjm said:

If Ake has been wandering around for the best part of the decade you'd think he must be getting energy from somewhere, unless their power technology is far in advance of anything we can make today (which isn't impossible given some of the other technology we see).

Correct, 10 years without a check up and he was no worse the wear. 

[karaddin]

2 hours ago, dooog said:

Those examples aren't really comparable. In this instance, it's admirable that he's fleeing, and the show clearly wants its audience to root for him get away from this cruel world. However in practicality, if the audience considers it for a moment they realise he wouldn't last 2 days in the real world and sneaking out and making it work is impossible,  there's nothing to for us to get behind. With Neo it's a mystery door in a science fiction world the audience is already privy to and with Truman he'd be in for a shock but the audience knows he has enough basic understanding and skill to survive the outside.

And I believe we're meant to conclude that the hosts will need to do something like what Dolores is up to in order to carve out a place for themselves in the world. Simple escape on an individual basis can't lead to long term freedom. For whatever reason this doesn't seem to be landing with the audience though and she's coming across as villainous without purpose to most.

[Spring Bass]

1 hour ago, karaddin said:

And I believe we're meant to conclude that the hosts will need to do something like what Dolores is up to in order to carve out a place for themselves in the world. Simple escape on an individual basis can't lead to long term freedom. For whatever reason this doesn't seem to be landing with the audience though and she's coming across as villainous without purpose to most.

I think the audience was always going to cool on Dolores once she shifted from merely breaking free to hoping for world conquest. 

[HexMachina]

6 hours ago, karaddin said:

And I believe we're meant to conclude that the hosts will need to do something like what Dolores is up to in order to carve out a place for themselves in the world. Simple escape on an individual basis can't lead to long term freedom. For whatever reason this doesn't seem to be landing with the audience though and she's coming across as villainous without purpose to most.

I don’t see her a single straight up villain but I certainly feel uncomfortable with her methods (as I think is the intention). I understand what she is doing and why, and that the brutality may be necessary, and I empathise with her given what she was subjected to. But the way she goes about it troubles me. Moreso in relation to her brutal use of the other hosts than her war against Delos

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

My issue with Dolores is the fact that I'm pretty sure she isn't acting with any real agency at all and it's just the Wyatt narrative she's following. Kinda like at the end of season 1 Maeve was acting on her program to want to leave the park.

[unJon]

Aren’t all the animals in the park robots also? So we have an ecosystem of human robots eating animal robots? Do the a animal robots eat other animal robots and (real?) plants? Is it robots all the way down?