History Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 What if viserys and daenerys had been captured by stannis instead of escaping to essos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylath's Snout Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 I did think about this for a bit. I'd say that Ned would have to be by Robert side to stop him from having them killed, so out of spite Robert would force Ned to take them both on as wards. Viserys would likely have a really hard time living with one of the men he blames for his father's death and ruin of his family. I personally like to think that Ned is a pretty good father but I don't know if he'd be up to the challenge of raising lil V when he isn't 20 years old. At least they could bond over their dislike/hate of Jamie. Ned wouldn't let Viserys less savory tendencies run wild but I am unsure if those a part of his nature or spending years running around Essos as the Beggar King. Dany would be very different as her whole life is completely changed. I am having a hard time seeing a possible end for Viserys other than at the Wall. Letting him marry anyone is just begging for trouble down the line. There would have to be some spectacular event for Robert to consider anything else. When the male line of House Blackfyre died out they seem to have been considered gone so maybe Dany could have been allowed to marry. However unless you are planning on rebelling I don't see the benefit of marrying with a Targ post RR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwaywolf123 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 8 hours ago, History said: What if viserys and daenerys had been captured by stannis instead of escaping to essos? Viserys would either be killed, castrated or sent somwhere where he will not be able to reproduce or constitute a threat to the Baratheon dynasty. If he is sent somwhere then the night's watch, the citiadell and the faith of the seven are likely destinations. He may also be castrated even if he sent away, to ensure that Viserys line dies with Viserys. Daenerys on the other hand would likely be married off to Robert Baratheons heir. Such a marriage may serve to consolidate Robert and his heirs legitamacy, aswell serve to remove the most likely person a resistance may center around. I think her survival is likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylath's Snout Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 36 minutes ago, norwaywolf123 said: He may also be castrated even if he sent away, to ensure that Viserys line dies with Viserys. Soo, you're saying that his dragonballs are in danger? 37 minutes ago, norwaywolf123 said: Daenerys on the other hand would likely be married off to Robert Baratheons heir. Would claiming some dynastic legitimacy be worth losing out on a future marriage-pact? We see in the books how key the Lannister-Tyrell pact is so marrying Dany to Joff is a very big opportunity-cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwaywolf123 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 31 minutes ago, Ylath's Snout said: Soo, you're saying that his dragonballs are in danger? I am saying that those dragonballs are dangerous. Quote Would claiming some dynastic legitimacy be worth losing out on a future marriage-pact? We see in the books how key the Lannister-Tyrell pact is so marrying Dany to Joff is a very big opportunity-cost. Maybe Robert could try for more daughters that could be married off. Robert only legally has Myrcella. What if Robert had put more focus into having his queen give birth to more children. This would be the best of both worlds, meaning dynastic legitmacy and marriage ties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylath's Snout Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 1 hour ago, norwaywolf123 said: Maybe Robert could try for more daughters that could be married off. Robert only legally has Myrcella. What if Robert had put more focus into having his queen give birth to more children. This would be the best of both worlds, meaning dynastic legitmacy and marriage ties. Seems unlikely with Cersei as his queen. Sure Boby B is/became a shit-tier husband but Cersei isn't great as a wife. Maybe Robert would have been in a better state of mind over all without having to worry about those loose dragons in Essos but that seems optimistic. If he sent Jamie to watch over Viserys and Dany while they were the wards of Stannis/Ned/Tywin then maybe things would be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwaywolf123 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 2 hours ago, Ylath's Snout said: Seems unlikely with Cersei as his queen. Sure Boby B is/became a shit-tier husband but Cersei isn't great as a wife. Maybe Robert would have been in a better state of mind over all without having to worry about those loose dragons in Essos but that seems optimistic. If he sent Jamie to watch over Viserys and Dany while they were the wards of Stannis/Ned/Tywin then maybe things would be different. Maybe if Jaime were not accepted into Robert's kingsguard then Cersei would be forced to try to better her relationship with Rpbert as her support were gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylath's Snout Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 45 minutes ago, norwaywolf123 said: Maybe if Jaime were not accepted into Robert's kingsguard then Cersei would be forced to try to better her relationship with ROberth as her support were gone. Sure but it seems like Jamie had plenty of brownie points with Robert at that point in time. Tywin would have to make pretty impressive plotting to extract Jamie from the KG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowen Marsh Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 20 hours ago, History said: What if viserys and daenerys had been captured by stannis instead of escaping to essos? Stannis Baratheon would have shown them no mercy. Hopefully, Dany will not show any mercy to Stannis Baratheon when she makes it back to Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Am I the only one that thinks you're all giving Robert way too much credit? They're dragonspawn and potential Rhaegars to Robert. They would've been killed. Ned and Robert's friendship would've probably died forever there as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylath's Snout Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 31 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said: They're dragonspawn and potential Rhaegars to Robert. I did say that the only way I see them living is if Ned happens to be on hand when they are brought to Robert. Ned might be able to shame Boby B into not indulging in more child killing. Dany might be kept alive to be married to a Baratheon heir for extra legitimacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 22 minutes ago, Ylath's Snout said: I did say that the only way I see them living is if Ned happens to be on hand when they are brought to Robert. Ned might be able to shame Boby B into not indulging in more child killing. Dany might be kept alive to be married to a Baratheon heir for extra legitimacy. I find that unlikely. We already saw that scenario play out in AGoT to little effect. It would be even more unlikely when both men's bloods are up with the recent murder of Aegon's children. Furthermore, I can't see Robert ever marrying "his son" to "dragonspawn." The hammer he used on the Trident was all the legitimacy he needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 2 hours ago, Lord Lannister said: I find that unlikely. We already saw that scenario play out in AGoT to little effect. It would be even more unlikely when both men's bloods are up with the recent murder of Aegon's children. Furthermore, I can't see Robert ever marrying "his son" to "dragonspawn." The hammer he used on the Trident was all the legitimacy he needed. Could have tried betrothing Daenerys to Robb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 2 hours ago, Lord Lannister said: I find that unlikely. We already saw that scenario play out in AGoT to little effect. It would be even more unlikely when both men's bloods are up with the recent murder of Aegon's children. Furthermore, I can't see Robert ever marrying "his son" to "dragonspawn." The hammer he used on the Trident was all the legitimacy he needed. That was 13 years later when they had a horde of Dothraki. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 20 minutes ago, Lee-Sensei said: That was 13 years later when they had a horde of Dothraki. Robert rewarded Tywin's murder of Rhaegar's children by marrying his daughter and pardoning his oathbreaking son. That hit on that 13 year old girl was ordered when he learned she was pregnant, not when she married Drogo. Robert Baratheon has no qualms whatsoever in killing Targaryen children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 20 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said: Robert rewarded Tywin's murder of Rhaegar's children by marrying his daughter and pardoning his oathbreaking son. That hit on that 13 year old girl was ordered when he learned she was pregnant, not when she married Drogo. Robert Baratheon has no qualms whatsoever in killing Targaryen children. “And Cersei… I have Jon Arryn to thank for her. I had no wish to marry after Lyanna was taken from me, but Jon said the realm needed an heir. Cersei Lannister would be a good match, he told me, she would bind Lord Tywin to me should Viserys Targaryen ever try to win back his father’s throne.” “At the least, Robert should have stripped the white cloak from Jaime and sent him to the Wall, as Lord Stark urged. He listened to Jon Arryn instead.” Completely irrelevant. He went after her after she had become a a threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylath's Snout Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 5 hours ago, Lord Lannister said: I find that unlikely. We already saw that scenario play out in AGoT to little effect. It would be even more unlikely when both men's bloods are up with the recent murder of Aegon's children. Robert didn't do the deed or directly order it. The saying goes "It is easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission" but in Robert's case it might be "easier to forgive than to give permission". It is one thing to not punish a despicable act that benefited you, ordering the death of two kids is another thing. If Stannis brought them to Robert at the same time Ned came to tell him that Lyanna was dead Robert could snap and kill the children himself or get too sad see any more death dealt out. (I assume that Stannis wouldn't kill them himself as they really haven't committed any crimes worthy of death) Also "they'd be super dead-dead" doesn't make for a very interesting thread. IF they were killed in gold blood I don't think that Ned would call the banners then and there to rebel against Robert but yeah their friendship would be over. It is hard to speculate on what the results of that would be, seems like a really deep watershed moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwaywolf123 Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 6 hours ago, Angel Eyes said: Could have tried betrothing Daenerys to Robb. That is even worse for Robert. This way he does not gain the legitmacy that comes with marrying the known rightfull heir of the last king. In addition this way Robb's children can inherit a claim, and their children also. This could lead to the claim spreading in Westeros to potentially someone dangerous for Robert's house and descendants. Either Robert claims Daenerys for his heir or Daenerys loses her head, for the best of Robert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 12 hours ago, Bowen Marsh said: Stannis Baratheon would have shown them no mercy. Hopefully, Dany will not show any mercy to Stannis Baratheon when she makes it back to Westeros. I doubt if Stannis would have killed the children, without being given express orders to do so by Robert. But, there would be plenty of other people who were willing to do the deed, knowing that Robert would approve. I imagine they would have been taken to Kings Landing, and then quietly murdered on the instructions of someone like Tywin Lannister or Hoster Tully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Peres Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 8 hours ago, Angel Eyes said: Could have tried betrothing Daenerys to Robb. Too dangerous, it's pretty much asking for a civil war in the next generation. Robb's already is very powerfull, he is heir to the north and has close blood ties with the Riverlands and the Vale, he is far from the zone of influence of Robert, so keeping him in check would be hard, his region is probably the hardest to invade, giving him a bride with a strong claim to the throne is giving him too much power. It's much more safe to betrothed Dany to himself or send her to the silent sisters if he doesn't want it to end in blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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