Viserys and daenerys captured

[hodorisfaclessman]

Stannis is pure ice but hes honourable (tv show is b.s) ..he wouldnt kill the kids 

Robert was relieved tywin had killed the other kids but probably couldnt have been seen to kill them himself  so ud say hed be force to spare them if captured

His hand ,stannis and ned prob would have found an honourable way to nulify the danger they posed ,comfortable exile or wards for say robert himself or any number of reliable kinsmen til old enough for sensible bethrothals that tied them to preserve the regime 

[Ylath's Snout]

55 minutes ago, hodorisfaclessman said:

wards for say robert himself or any number of reliable kinsmen til old enough for sensible bethrothals that tied them to preserve the regime 

I really think Stannis or Ned would get stuck with them. Robert might not wanna order the death of children (side note would that make him a kinslayer?) but I'm having a hard time seeing him putting up with having Rhaegar's brother and sister in his Red Keep.

If they grew up in the North any Targ loyalist would have a really hard time getting to them or rescuing them. KL is a dang viper pit. Not to mention they are unlikely to learn how to play the game with Ned as their foster father.

[norwaywolf123]

Maybe even Eddard would kill Viserys or Daenerys if he got his hand on them? This was not long after his brother and father had been killed by Aerys, and Neds sister kidnapped by Rhaegar. Also maybe if Jon is Rhaegar's son this might have made Ned less inclined to hate Targaryens, especially if Lyanna went with Rhaegar willingly.

[HexMachina]

39 minutes ago, Ylath's Snout said:

I really think Stannis or Ned would get stuck with them. Robert might not wanna order the death of children (side note would that make him a kinslayer?) but I'm having a hard time seeing him putting up with having Rhaegar's brother and sister in his Red Keep.

If they grew up in the North any Targ loyalist would have a really hard time getting to them or rescuing them. KL is a dang viper pit. Not to mention they are unlikely to learn how to play the game with Ned as their foster father.

Ned would likely not take the Targlings in, it draws too much attention to the Starks when from all appearances he wants to withdraw from the limelight. You also have the chance Jon grows up resembling Rhaegar and someone notes the similar appearance of Jon and Dany/Viserys

[Boarsbane]

Send them to Tywin as wards where they can have some unfortunate "accidents". 

[norwaywolf123]

5 minutes ago, Boarsbane said:

Send them to Tywin as wards where they can have some unfortunate "accidents". 

Or maybe to a sept where dome devout and godly man or woman may remove those abominations from the face of the earth.

[hodorisfaclessman]

2 hours ago, Ylath's Snout said:

I really think Stannis or Ned would get stuck with them. Robert might not wanna order the death of children (side note would that make him a kinslayer?) but I'm having a hard time seeing him putting up with having Rhaegar's brother and sister in his Red Keep.

If they grew up in the North any Targ loyalist would have a really hard time getting to them or rescuing them. KL is a dang viper pit. Not to mention they are unlikely to learn how to play the game with Ned as their foster father.

Id say ned woulda volunteered given how he took in theon and he knows the truth about his sister. 

Danys prob woulda grown up as another sansa bestie and viserys aware of his heritage but aware he cant claim the throne and influenced by the northern culture would prob  have grown up decent and wanted to go to night watch where aemon woulda been keen look after him! Danys when old enough prob would have (to been safe) married to an old respected but weak house 

 

With so many wards hilariously theon prob goes to stannis instead.

[Lord Lannister]

10 hours ago, Ylath's Snout said:

Robert didn't do the deed or directly order it. The saying goes "It is easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission" but in Robert's case it might be "easier to forgive than to give permission". It is one thing to not punish a despicable act that benefited you, ordering the death of two kids is another thing.

If Stannis brought them to Robert at the same time Ned came to tell him that Lyanna was dead Robert could snap and kill the children himself or get too sad  see any more death dealt out. (I assume that Stannis wouldn't kill them himself as they really haven't committed any crimes worthy of death)

Also "they'd be super dead-dead" doesn't make for a very interesting thread.

IF they were killed in gold blood I don't think that Ned would call the banners then and there to rebel against Robert but yeah their friendship would be over. It is hard to speculate on what the results of that would be, seems like a really deep watershed moment.

You have a point. We know that Robert was quite enraged with Stannis for letting the Targaryen children get away. I wouldn't be surprised if he did quietly order or heavily imply they should be killed, if there's any negative consequences he gets away cleanly. It was Stannis who did it after all and he can be sent away to rule the Stormlands out of sight, out of mind. But as they got away, I think that could very well have been a contributing reason Robert gave Renly rule of Storm's End over Stannis. 

While a surrogate killer would be preferable, I still think if Stannis had captured them and presented them to Robert, he'd have had them killed. Nothing good comes of leaving them alive and the fresh whispers of Usurper will remind Robert of that. As long as the Targaryen children are alive, they'd be a threat. I don't think Ned would be able to stop it even if he was there. Certainly their friendship would never survive such an act, but all Ned would do is go home, secret away Jon even more, and never have anything to do with Robert again. Maybe not even help when Greyjoy rebels later down the road. 

While it's "not interesting" I think it's what would've happened if Robert would've had access to them. Which is likely why the story went the way it did, more possibilities. 

[hodorisfaclessman]

14 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

You have a point. We know that Robert was quite enraged with Stannis for letting the Targaryen children get away. I wouldn't be surprised if he did quietly order or heavily imply they should be killed, if there's any negative consequences he gets away cleanly. It was Stannis who did it after all and he can be sent away to rule the Stormlands out of sight, out of mind. But as they got away, I think that could very well have been a contributing reason Robert gave Renly rule of Storm's End over Stannis. 

While a surrogate killer would be preferable, I still think if Stannis had captured them and presented them to Robert, he'd have had them killed. Nothing good comes of leaving them alive and the fresh whispers of Usurper will remind Robert of that. As long as the Targaryen children are alive, they'd be a threat. I don't think Ned would be able to stop it even if he was there. Certainly their friendship would never survive such an act, but all Ned would do is go home, secret away Jon even more, and never have anything to do with Robert again. Maybe not even help when Greyjoy rebels later down the road. 

While it's "not interesting" I think it's what would've happened if Robert would've had access to them. Which is likely why the story went the way it did, more possibilities. 

He was enraged at them escaping yes but thats as free they could be a distant threat...captured and under his control that threat is heavily doused

remeber ned is both outraged and shocked his old friend would want dany posioned later on...this i feel  implies the old robert wouldnt have gone through with it and shows how far robert has fallen from the once honourable warrior king he was!

 

Side note we know selemy pledged secretly to kill robert had he smiled etc at seeing the  targ kids dead, if robert had gone against his honourable upbringing and best pal(ned)  and killed these 2  selemy would have made sure either he and robert were dead next

[Lord Lannister]

3 minutes ago, hodorisfaclessman said:

He was enraged at them escaping yes but thats as free they could be a distant threat...captured and under his control that threat is heavily doused

remeber ned is both outraged and shocked his old friend would want dany posioned later on...this i feel  implies the old robert wouldnt have gone through with it and shows how far robert has fallen from the once honourable warrior king he was!

 

Side note we know selemy pledged secretly to kill robert had he smiled etc at seeing the  targ kids dead, if robert had gone against his honourable upbringing and best pal(ned)  and killed these 2  selemy would have made sure either he and robert were dead next

Yes, Ned was outraged and shocked, but recall what happened when Rhaegar's children were murdered. Robert's apathy towards it nearly was enough to ruin their friendship alone and it was only grief over Lyanna that reconciled them. Ned always did look at Robert through the rose colored lens of their shared childhood. 

That's an interesting point you make about Barristan. While he'd agonize over it, I don't doubt, I do wonder if he'd actually do anything despite his internal dialogue. This is a man who stood by and did "his duty" through all of the Mad King's reign and turned a blind eye to every outrage he committed. I guess he could've rationalized it in his head that he owed Robert nothing as a Usurper, but Renly was spot on when he characterized Barristan as needing a king to serve, it doesn't matter who.

[norwaywolf123]

2 hours ago, hodorisfaclessman said:

Id say ned woulda volunteered given how he took in theon and he knows the truth about his sister. 

Danys prob woulda grown up as another sansa bestie and viserys aware of his heritage but aware he cant claim the throne and influenced by the northern culture would prob  have grown up decent and wanted to go to night watch where aemon woulda been keen look after him! Danys when old enough prob would have (to been safe) married to an old respected but weak house 

  

With so many wards hilariously theon prob goes to stannis instead.

When did Ned find out about his sister and her child?

 

Would Ned find out about his sister and her child before the topic of murdering the Targaryens ever came up?

[hodorisfaclessman]

3 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

Yes, Ned was outraged and shocked, but recall what happened when Rhaegar's children were murdered. Robert's apathy towards it nearly was enough to ruin their friendship alone and it was only grief over Lyanna that reconciled them. Ned always did look at Robert through the rose colored lens of their shared childhood. 

That's an interesting point you make about Barristan. While he'd agonize over it, I don't doubt, I do wonder if he'd actually do anything despite his internal dialogue. This is a man who stood by and did "his duty" through all of the Mad King's reign and turned a blind eye to every outrage he committed. I guess he could've rationalized it in his head that he owed Robert nothing as a Usurper, but Renly was spot on when he characterized Barristan as needing a king to serve, it doesn't matter who.

Roberts reply sickened him but it it seemed more for show than reality ,tywin had solved an issue robert himself probably lacked the ruthlessness to do nor could his image take the hit. Robert was ultimately a savage in battle but politicaly and personaly soft and needed to be liked more than feared.....not as honourable as ned but def in that mould (jon arryn to blame) Id say the telling moment was neds disgust with how far his friend had fallen suggesting posioning a girl(dany)

 

He does seem to have endured a.lot with the mad king but his genuine affection for the family and his own thoughts seem to betray the truth...if robert had laughed at the bodies etc hed have gone for him consequences be damned!(what a scrap that woulda been)  His transfer to dany and genuine loyalty i feel are also rooted in his feelings of letting down those kids and his dear friend

[hodorisfaclessman]

1 hour ago, norwaywolf123 said:

When did Ned find out about his sister and her child?

 

Would Ned find out about his sister and her child before the topic of murdering the Targaryens ever came up?

Tower of joy but i strongly suspect he knew she wasnt abducted and raped prior

 

Hard to say ned was there for the capitals fall then went down to settle shit with the tower of joy ,stannis may have sailed to dragonstone right after kl sack  in meantime 

[Ylath's Snout]

(Lots of post I wanna reply so I hope this big one is better than sever post by me in a row)

7 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Ned would likely not take the Targlings in, it draws too much attention to the Starks when from all appearances he wants to withdraw from the limelight.

They way I see thing going down it Ned wouldn't volunteer to take them in. Robert would say something to the effect of "Fine I won't kill them but I'm not raising them. You begged for their lives, now they are your problem. Take em North and never bring them south of the Neck except on my explicit say-so." ned can't really worm his way out of that unless he wants to give Robert carte-blanche to kill them.

6 hours ago, hodorisfaclessman said:

Danys prob woulda grown up as another sansa bestie and viserys aware of his heritage but aware he cant claim the throne and influenced by the northern culture would prob  have grown up decent and wanted to go to night watch where aemon woulda been keen look after him! Danys when old enough prob would have (to been safe) married to an old respected but weak house

I guess it would depend to a large degree how they were treated by the servants and people of the North in general. If they get spat on their whole lifes for something they didn't do they both might be very bitter. Theon doesn't seem to have had huge problems like that so I think it might be fine.

Dany would be a bit older than Sansa so in a lot of ways I think she'd look up to Dany. Diserys I tend to think was broken by the experience of growing up running from the Usurpers wrath and living like a beggar king. He would still have a lot of baggage and some his negative personality traits may be a part of his nature but growing up in WF would result in a much less broken man.

Also he'd be 13 during the Greyjoy Rebellion, so he could have some "fun" times as Ned's squier.

5 hours ago, hodorisfaclessman said:

remeber ned is both outraged and shocked his old friend would want dany posioned later on...this i feel  implies the old robert wouldnt have gone through with it and shows how far robert has fallen from the once honourable warrior king he was!

Yeah, I got that vibe too.

 

[Bowen Marsh]

On 5/24/2018 at 7:05 AM, SeanF said:

I doubt if Stannis would have killed the children, without being given express orders to do so by Robert.  But, there would be plenty of other people who were willing to do the deed, knowing that Robert would approve.

I imagine they would have been taken to Kings Landing, and then quietly murdered on the instructions of someone like Tywin Lannister or Hoster Tully.

I get a different impression from the books when I read the chapters with Stannis.  Sure he let Davos off the hook because he brought supplies in.  But I do not consider that a merciful act.  He is man of very harsh ways.  He torched his own soldiers for eating already dead people.  It's gross.  I know it is.  But they had to eat.  How much less mercy would two children who can threaten his brother get.  I am not a Stannis basher.  I am only saying he would have murdered the royal children for the sake of his own brother.  The Targaryens, whether they be Dany or Aegon, should likewise show no mercy to the usurper's family.