TTTNE 473: An Obsession of Joshes

[Buckwheat]

1 hour ago, Vin said:

On public health care. If only you'd just let the free market, you know, be free and not artificially strangle supply. Who the fuck wants to study 7-10 years of medicine then specialize and then do a sub specialty (realistically speaking doctors only begin to make any money and work meaningful work at 30 years of age) to then be paid a shitty government wage and be treated like a personal owned slave by the ingrate general public? Set the market free and it'll do what it always does, compete, present a range of services and choices and prices to fit all. The market only cares about green and that's a good thing. 

Yes, because the US healthcare system works so much better. At least here the first thing you hear in a doctor's office is not "this procedure costs XY, are you sure you can afford that or should we just let you die here on our doorstep?"

51 minutes ago, RhaenysBee said:

According to acquaintances who moved to the UK, even public sector jobs pay very decently there. But Eastern Europe does indeed suffer from ridiculous public sector wages. (And ridiculous market sector wages as well, might I add)

And even here, doctors make a lot more money than other government employees. (Not so much nurses.)

13 minutes ago, Vin said:

 the general belief in Europe is that health care is human right

Yes. It is incomprehensible to me that one should not think so.

13 minutes ago, Vin said:

The problem with public sector jobs is that the wages have an arbitrary element to them and do not reflect performance or the market factors.

This is where I partly agree, I do think that also government salaries and employment should depend on customer feedback. It would give the motivation for better work and make it easier for shitty workers (doctors, teachers, whoever) to lose their jobs and somebody more competent to take that space.

BUT the system should still be state owned and the health insurance should stay the same.

 

[RhaenysBee]

5 minutes ago, Buckwheat said:

Yes, because the US healthcare system works so much better. At least here the first thing you hear in a doctor's office is not "this procedure costs XY, are you sure you can afford that or should we just let you die here on our doorstep?"

And even here, doctors make a lot more money than other government employees. (Not so much nurses.)

Yes. It is incomprehensible to me that one should not think so.

This is where I partly agree, I do think that also government salaries and employment should depend on customer feedback. It would give the motivation for better work and make it easier for shitty workers (doctors, teachers, whoever) to lose their jobs and somebody more competent to take that space.

BUT the system should still be state owned and the health insurance should stay the same.

 

 and   at italic 

Doctors here have a shitty pay. Nurses even more. High level managers though get a shitton of money in the public sector too (and no this is not about corruption, it's about the fact that these positions come with the kind of responsibility and accountability that will put you in jail if anything under your scope goes wrong and you are compensated duely) 

[Jen'ari]

1 hour ago, Vin said:

 

Taste good too. 

 

[Jen'ari]

1 hour ago, RhaenysBee said:

And does that tie you to a specific medical provider? I mean it's possible to go to this or that private clinic and pay for a yearly package here too, but that ties you to that exact provider with that exact location and those exact doctors. Also, I can't think of more than two private clinics large enough to include every field in their package. So while that's the most expensive, I'm not sure it's the most practical and beneficial option here. 

Public dental is surprisingly good here. It's far from first class or even western average, but it serves its purpose and it's way more fair and reasonable (and even more professional) than private dental clinics. 

It doesn’t tie you to one specific place no, as I understand it you can pick to go to various places that they have arrangements with, the system you describe seems somewhat restrictive.

[Vin]

21 minutes ago, RhaenysBee said:

That sounds much safer than the previous hyperbole. Have fun! 

Well there are too many points I disagree with to go further into this topic. 

The EU is an anomaly for which we can still be very grateful. Rather paradox. We have been in the EU for almost 15 years and we still don't have euros for a currency. This is entirely ridiculous and makes it impossible for our economy to catch up with EU standards (which would in turn enable us to becme members of the euro zone) - this is a rough outline of the situation, I know it's more complex and I don't know (or wish to know) the specifics. Of course, pulling out of the EU would be an economic and policital suicide, so we are kinda stuck. The economic growth we can achieve in the current situation goes only as far as slightly better welfare than ten years ago, skyrocketing real estate prices and a long awaited increase in salaries, which in turn results in big ass multi national companies packing up and moving to Ukraine and Romania and Serbia where labor force is as cheap as or cheaper than we were five years ago. Another devil's circle.

I see, it's somewhat different here. Gyneacology was the first thing I went private with, I just feel more comfortable with that and if comfort is important in any area, this is definitely it. Then again, I can see why you wouldn't want to pay for something that basic. 

I suppose we have resident cards because that's what helps with the residence based distribution of public services (which is the general concept in our public sector).

Definitely safe. I have over a decade of experience with fire arms. Thanks, will do! 

Cool. 

The best accomplishment of the EU is facilitating the free movement of labor but even that came at cost as it destroyed the sovereignty of nation states and made a mockery of the democratic process in Brussels.also One should not forget that the current EU is a protectionist sphere against China and the US and is in essence against free trade. Smaller countries rushed in thinking they'd get risk free loans to build up their post soviet infrastructure but instead they got hooked into an unending cycle of stagnation. They're basically colonies of Germany and France. 

16 minutes ago, Buckwheat said:

Yes, because the US healthcare system works so much better. At least here the first thing you hear in a doctor's office is not "this procedure costs XY, are you sure you can afford that or should we just let you die here on our doorstep?"

And even here, doctors make a lot more money than other government employees. (Not so much nurses.)

Yes. It is incomprehensible to me that one should not think so.

This is where I partly agree, I do think that also government salaries and employment should depend on customer feedback. It would give the motivation for better work and make it easier for shitty workers (doctors, teachers, whoever) to lose their jobs and somebody more competent to take that space.

BUT the system should still be state owned and the health insurance should stay the same.

 

This first sentence betrays a large scale ignorance of the US Healthcare system. The US Healthcare system is not even close to being a free market one, it's mixed and extremely heavily regulated, it's a horrible system. Also your hypothetical situation is funny for 2 reasons: 1) hospitals are legally obligated to stabilize anyone who comes into the er. They're legally not allowed to just kick you out if you were dying. 2) you can't actually get a direct pricing like a menu from a restaurant, I wish you could because then you could compare across providers and choose the cheapest which would cause competition and lower the price across the board, that's what we'd want. Instead you get weird estimations because the doctor can't tell you how much it costs because the hospital need to negotiate with your insurance company and the government to figure out a price and see how much they could squeeze. In reality insurance company profit margins are very small. 

They make a lot more money because even the government, dumb as they are, understand that if you don't pay your doctors highly you simply won't have doctors. Your case is simple low supply which is increasingly common in socialized health care. It's really simple, you want more doctors you incentivise and make it easier for people to become doctors. And of course doctors are payed more than nurses. They're more rare and important. 

If health care is a human right why not food? Why not a house?  Why not a personal messuce who fans you and feeds you grapes? Freedom, security and opportunity are the true human rights imo a nanny state is bad because a state powerful enough to give you everything is also powerful enough to take everything from you. 

Well you can't really have it both ways because public sector unions basically forbid the government ever firing anyone. Also I'm not sure how anyone can think that the government does things well, if private business fails it closes down, if a government program fails it gets expanded. 

 

[RhaenysBee]

1 hour ago, Lord Sidious said:

It doesn’t tie you to one specific place no, as I understand it you can pick to go to various places that they have arrangements with, the system you describe seems somewhat restrictive.

I see, that sounds good. Not the case here unfortunately. I would totally sign up for something like this (once I get a more decent salary per se) if we did. 

1 hour ago, Vin said:

Definitely safe. I have over a decade of experience with fire arms. Thanks, will do! 

Cool. 

The best accomplishment of the EU is facilitating the free movement of labor but even that came at cost as it destroyed the sovereignty of nation states and made a mockery of the democratic process in Brussels.also One should not forget that the current EU is a protectionist sphere against China and the US and is in essence against free trade. Smaller countries rushed in thinking they'd get risk free loans to build up their post soviet infrastructure but instead they got hooked into an unending cycle of stagnation. They're basically colonies of Germany and France. 

 

 

 

I agree with most of this apart from your obsession with firm belief in free market mechanism. 

 

I have essentially gone to bed. I’m truly a grandma today. My arm hurts, my leg hurts, I have a bad stomach, I’m tired, sleep deprived and stressed. I’ll watch some OUAT and go to sleep, good night people. 

Daily trivia: Viva Bianca had her second baby. :3 

[Buckwheat]

There are again obviously many things we do not agree on, and I do not want to discuss this in more detail (this is also not the place for it, serious topics are supposed to be GenChat material). So I am dropping it.

2 minutes ago, RhaenysBee said:

I have essentially gone to bed. I’m truly a grandma today. My arm hurts, my leg hurts, I have a bad stomach, I’m tired, sleep deprived and stressed. I’ll watch some OUAT and go to sleep, good night people. 

Get better and good night, RB.

[HexMachina]

6 hours ago, The EnglishBear said:

Depends what you need, long term care could be better, but anything short term or life threatening it's damn good. Not to get on a soap-box (this isn't the thread) but I'm damn glad for the NHS every time I or a family member has needed 

[Jen'ari]

12 hours ago, RhaenysBee said:

I see, that sounds good. Not the case here unfortunately. I would totally sign up for something like this (once I get a more decent salary per se) if we did. 

 

 

I agree with most of this apart from your obsession with firm belief in free market mechanism. 

 

I have essentially gone to bed. I’m truly a grandma today. My arm hurts, my leg hurts, I have a bad stomach, I’m tired, sleep deprived and stressed. I’ll watch some OUAT and go to sleep, good night people. 

Daily trivia: Viva Bianca had her second baby. :3 

I hope you feel better soon, get plenty of sleep, sleep is the best think you can do to repair yourself, I wish mini Sith had stayed in sleep mode longer this morning .

In other news I’ve had my new car confirmed for October the 15th , it has massage seats, I so want to try those!.

[RhaenysBee]

Thank you people, I had good sleep, good smoothie for breakfast, washed two loads of laundry, opened all the windows because there’s finally fresh air and I don’t feel like a sickly grandma anymore. Yay. 

Yay for your car sidious! And how is mini sith? Apart from still being a morning person. 

 

[Jen'ari]

I know I’m kind of excited about it, although I’m not sure I picked the right colour .

Mini Sith is good, we have some friends coming over later for dinner with their baby who is only a few months older, hopefully they will make friends .

[RhaenysBee]

3 hours ago, Lord Sidious said:

I know I’m kind of excited about it, although I’m not sure I picked the right colour .

Mini Sith is good, we have some friends coming over later for dinner with their baby who is only a few months older, hopefully they will make friends .

Yeah and have all kinds of adventures, like in Rugrats  Have fun in the evening! 

 

So I'm trying to get rid of my sofa. I know, I know. When will the furniture shopping end...? But I haaaaaaate this sofa. It's too soft and you kinda sink into it between the seat cushions and the back cushions and it's uneven and uncomfortable and just overall very boring and bulky.

[honeyed chicken]

On 8/25/2018 at 7:06 AM, Lord Sidious said:

I know I’m kind of excited about it, although I’m not sure I picked the right colour .

Mini Sith is good, we have some friends coming over later for dinner with their baby who is only a few months older, hopefully they will make friends .

Congrats on the car.

So here's a thing. My brother wrote a book about our childhood in Vermont. He's the one of the three of us siblings that doesn't live here anymore - he's on the West Coast so he meets a lot of people who have no idea what a rural Vermont childhood is like. These same people have found his stories entertaining. hence the book.  https://www.amazon.com/dp/1718198396/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1534715730&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=pieces+of+rope+too+short+to+keep

[RhaenysBee]

It’s a glorious 16C today, cloudy and rainy, like your perfect autumn Sunday. It makes me so happy I don’t even care about the headache this mild 50% drop in the temperature gave me. 

[Buckwheat]

49 minutes ago, RhaenysBee said:

It’s a glorious 16C today, cloudy and rainy, like your perfect autumn Sunday. It makes me so happy I don’t even care about the headache this mild 50% drop in the temperature gave me. 

It has been raining for two days. I hate it. I am going to the sea for two more weeks tomorrow, I don't want rain and cold there!

[RhaenysBee]

12 minutes ago, Buckwheat said:

It has been raining for two days. I hate it. I am going to the sea for two more weeks tomorrow, I don't want rain and cold there!

Quite understandably. In the city, however, cold and rain mean fresh air, oxygen and semi-clean streets. Heat means dirty, stinking, polluted and disgusting streets and air. 

[honeyed chicken]

7 hours ago, Buckwheat said:

It has been raining for two days. I hate it. I am going to the sea for two more weeks tomorrow, I don't want rain and cold there!

Buck, I hope you have brilliant, beautiful weather for your vacation. You didn't say which sea, but I checked two spots on the Adriatic (thanks to the miracle of the internet): Trieste & Dubrovnik (aka Kings Landing) and it looks warm and sunny for the most part over the next ten days.

Did I mention that my brother in laws cousin Reza (who lives in London) decided to get married in Croatia. So my sister and b-i-l and their three kids went and had a great time. They sent back a postcard and many pictures from Dubrovnik. Looked lovely.

Hot again here. Mowed the lawn and a few other chores and am now wiped out.

[Jen'ari]

On 8/25/2018 at 3:32 PM, RhaenysBee said:

Yeah and have all kinds of adventures, like in Rugrats  Have fun in the evening! 

 

So I'm trying to get rid of my sofa. I know, I know. When will the furniture shopping end...? But I haaaaaaate this sofa. It's too soft and you kinda sink into it between the seat cushions and the back cushions and it's uneven and uncomfortable and just overall very boring and bulky.

They did seem to make friends a bit , we had a nice evening but all I really felt like doing was having a cuddle and an early night, ugh for that time of the month .

We were going to go out today but it’s grey and a bit cold outside so we felt kind of ununspiried to do much.

im sure you will find a nice new sofa , I hate leather sofas they just don’t feel as cosy to be on.

[RhaenysBee]

32 minutes ago, Lord Sidious said:

They did seem to make friends a bit , we had a nice evening but all I really felt like doing was having a cuddle and an early night, ugh for that time of the month .

We were going to go out today but it’s grey and a bit cold outside so we felt kind of ununspiried to do much.

im sure you will find a nice new sofa , I hate leather sofas they just don’t feel as cosy to be on.

That Sounds good, though it’s annoying when you have to be social even though all you want is some me time. 

I’m really happy about the cold weather, I wish it stayed this way, really. 

I know what kinda new sofa I want, I just need to sell the current one to be able to buy the new one. 

 

[Jen'ari]

6 hours ago, RhaenysBee said:

That Sounds good, though it’s annoying when you have to be social even though all you want is some me time. 

I’m really happy about the cold weather, I wish it stayed this way, really. 

I know what kinda new sofa I want, I just need to sell the current one to be able to buy the new one. 

 

What sort of sofa do you want?, I have been thinking about getting a new one too, I’d quite like a big corner sofa, was thinking about dark grey cloth for the material, I think it would fit in with the room well and I could bout some brighter cushions on it to brighten things up a bit too.