SOLO: A Spoiler Story (contains spoilers)

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

24 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

I was kind of indifferent to L3, though I thought the driod rebellion was hilarious when they all started just smashing shit.

"Congratulations. You're liberated. Scoot."

"-confused beeps-"

"I don't know. Free your brothers and sisters or something. Just give me some space."

...And a riot ensues.  I laughed.

[Jace, Extat]

41 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

Oh come now, if you don’t embrace your hate the I’m the Queen of England.

tsk tsk

Like so many you hear but you do not listen. 

Hate is only a tool, yes? And would you embrace a hammer? A hydrospanner? No, only a fool would assign true value to such things. 

But every tool can be used as a weapon. If you have but the desire to see it weilded.

[Iskaral Pust]

On 5/27/2018 at 12:49 AM, Aemon Stark said:

@Iskaral Pust

I don't know what you mean by social agenda other than, maybe, the Empire is evil? I did like how they showed that the Empire is fairly corrupt and maintained lots of connections to organized crime. Not that there was a lot there. 

Otherwise the whole thing with the Marauders was far too underwritten to ascribe any social agenda, let alone liken this to the "SJW cultural ocean" (???). An extra Picard faceplam there. 

I don’t want to make this a huge point of debate but it seems inarguable that our background cultural mores seep into art, and it will be interesting to see how this is period is perceived with hindsight. 

While Solo is nothing like TLJ for virtue signaling, there were still several moments that would have been treated differently if this movie was made at the same time as the originals:

- the marauders were immediately and improbably embraced by Han even though they killed his (kind of) friend and crew mate just a few days earlier and indirectly caused the death of second.  Everyone in this story has suffered under the crushing rule of the Empire, so why is their version suddenly/miraculously irresistibly compelling?

- droid civil rights: overdue in this universe but it stands out because it was never contemplated in movies set before and after this.  Phantom Menace even has active slavery of people.  Here we see slavery of people without a blip of protest (Han and Chewie are brought as slaves) but we hear sermons about droid civil rights.  The juxtaposition is weird and insincere: virtue signaling by empty sermons.  Also, we never see the perspective of mass unemployment of low-skilled workers replaced by droids; we see it from the sympathetic view of the droids (an anti-Trumpian stance in our current situation).

- the border control scene was a pretty heavy allegory for illegal immigrants trying to enter the US, with stormtroopers for border patrol and/or ICE.  Plus the military recruiting scene also made the clearest association yet of the US govt/military with the Empire, which had previously been more directly associated with the Nazis (and the Rebellion as the RAF).

- the public announcement outside of the movie to label Lando as pan-sexual was irrelevant to his character and felt like a competition for inclusion brownie points, and possibly queer baiting (like Dumbledore).

So even though I agree with the politics reflected in all four, the former two have a negative effect on the quality/integrity of the movie itself, and all four will make the movie feel like something “of it’s time” to later viewers. 

[Werthead]

 

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- the marauders were immediately and improbably embraced by Han even though they killed his (kind of) friend and crew mate just a few days earlier and indirectly caused the death of second.  Everyone in this story has suffered under the crushing rule of the Empire, so why is their version suddenly/miraculously irresistibly compelling?

 

Solo had known the marauders for under 24 hours when they killed Thandie Newton's character, just after she'd tried to get him killed (by leaving him and threatening him with a gun several times). She was by no means "a friend".

I agree Solo did take their version of the story on trust, and perhaps they should have presented more evidence of their claims. But the point is made here - and later - that Solo has a soft spot for hopeless causes. We saw that in ANH and TFA.

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- droid civil rights: overdue in this universe but it stands out because it was never contemplated in movies set before and after this.  Phantom Menace even has active slavery of people.  Here we see slavery of people without a blip of protest (Han and Chewie are brought as slaves) but we hear sermons about droid civil rights.  The juxtaposition is weird and insincere: virtue signaling by empty sermons.  Also, we never see the perspective of mass unemployment of low-skilled workers replaced by droids; we see it from the sympathetic view of the droids (an anti-Trumpian stance in our current situation).

 

That's because the takeover from people by droids happened thousands of years earlier in this universe. It's not a recent thing. And the "droid lives matter" stuff was, I think, a nod to constant fan queries about this and the repeated claims as to why it's not a thing: I believe there was something about Force users being able to detect the life signs of sentient, living beings and they don't get that from droids, meaning that no matter how good the simulacra, they are not living, sentient beings (no, not even Threepio or Artoo) so the slavery issue does not emerge.

I think it's also mentioned a few times throughout the films that people are actually cheaper than droids, with slave labour being more efficient in some cases.

Quote

 

- the border control scene was a pretty heavy allegory for illegal immigrants trying to enter the US, with stormtroopers for border patrol and/or ICE.  Plus the military recruiting scene also made the clearest association yet of the US govt/military with the Empire, which had previously been more directly associated with the Nazis (and the Rebellion as the RAF).

 

The border scene was for people trying to escape from Corellia, not into it. If you read a US allegory into it, that's up to you, but I really don't think that was deliberate. We've seen plenty of Imperial customs/checkpoints in the SW universe previously and if anything this seemed a lot milder.

Quote

 

- the public announcement outside of the movie to label Lando as pan-sexual was irrelevant to his character and felt like a competition for inclusion brownie points, and possibly queer baiting (like Dumbledore).

 

Lando being pan-sexual was a nod to his odd relationship with his droid, and that ended up being relevant to the movie (he appeared to genuinely care for the droid and she ended up being the AI of the Falcon, complete with her "peculiar dialect" she would later use to be rude to Threepio in ESB).

[Darth Richard II]

Regarding the pan sexual thing, it was not made as any kind of announcement, An interview asked about it in an interview and the resulting answer was blasted over the internet by people on both sides of the debate.

[Darth Richard II]

13 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

"Congratulations. You're liberated. Scoot."

"-confused beeps-"

"I don't know. Free your brothers and sisters or something. Just give me some space."

...And a riot ensues.  I laughed.

That scene was great. There so so many random classic Star Wars droids in that scene my brain almost overloaded. No one fucks with Gonk!

[dbunting]

47 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Lando being pan-sexual was a nod to his odd relationship with his droid, and that ended up being relevant to the movie (he appeared to genuinely care for the droid and she ended up being the AI of the Falcon, complete with her "peculiar dialect" she would later use to be rude to Threepio in ESB).

It's tie ins like the droid being rude later that make this fun. We now see why and it makes more sense.

The whole pansexual thing was just stupid. Almost like it was said just to drum up some publicity.

[felice]

2 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

virtue signaling

Right...

2 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

- the marauders were immediately and improbably embraced by Han even though they killed his (kind of) friend and crew mate just a few days earlier and indirectly caused the death of second.  Everyone in this story has suffered under the crushing rule of the Empire, so why is their version suddenly/miraculously irresistibly compelling?

They're not just victims, they're actively fighting against both the Empire and the crime syndicates, neither of which Han is a big fan of. He joined the Empire to escape the control of a criminal gang, and he defected from the Empire expressing disapproval of their wars of aggression, and Vos has essentially enslaved his girlfriend. He does seem to accept their claims very easily, but perhaps they provide compelling evidence off-screen (an extended "how do we know you're telling the truth?" scene wouldn't have helped the pace of the film).

2 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

- droid civil rights: overdue in this universe but it stands out because it was never contemplated in movies set before and after this.  Phantom Menace even has active slavery of people.  Here we see slavery of people without a blip of protest (Han and Chewie are brought as slaves) but we hear sermons about droid civil rights.  The juxtaposition is weird and insincere: virtue signaling by empty sermons.  

Sermons from one character that nobody else takes seriously (so consistent with other films), who does take action to free other droids and starts a large-scale revolt (so not empty words). And Han helps Chewie rescue Wookie slaves in the mines too. And just because freeing slaves isn't what they're there for doesn't mean they approve of slavery.

2 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

Also, we never see the perspective of mass unemployment of low-skilled workers replaced by droids; we see it from the sympathetic view of the droids (an anti-Trumpian stance in our current situation).

Won't someone think of the poor unemployed people whose jobs have been stolen by evil slaves?

2 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

- the border control scene was a pretty heavy allegory for illegal immigrants trying to enter the US, with stormtroopers for border patrol and/or ICE.  Plus the military recruiting scene also made the clearest association yet of the US govt/military with the Empire, which had previously been more directly associated with the Nazis (and the Rebellion as the RAF).

It's not the filmmakers' fault if the US government looks more like the Empire because they're acting more like Nazis. But I think Anakin's "If you're not with me, you're my enemy" during the Dubya presidency still wins the blatant association of the Empire with the US award.

2 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

- the public announcement outside of the movie to label Lando as pan-sexual

and all four will make the movie feel like something “of it’s time” to later viewers. 

That last one isn't even in the moive!

4 minutes ago, Werthead said:

I believe there was something about Force users being able to detect the life signs of sentient, living beings and they don't get that from droids, meaning that no matter how good the simulacra, they are not living, sentient beings (no, not even Threepio or Artoo) so the slavery issue does not emerge.

Not being connected to the Force isn't evidence they're not self-aware - take the Yuuzhan Vong, for example. Organics don't really understand how droid brains work, as demonstrated by needing restraining bolts instead of just programming them to be obedient, so they can't know they're not sentient. Failure to recognise their rights is a cultural blind spot for the Republic/Empire.

[Darth Richard II]

30 minutes ago, dbunting said:

It's tie ins like the droid being rude later that make this fun. We now see why and it makes more sense.

The whole pansexual thing was just stupid. Almost like it was said just to drum up some publicity.

I'm going to be saying this for weeks it looks like, but no, it was a question asked in an interview that got huge press. There was no "announcement".

[dbunting]

9 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

I'm going to be saying this for weeks it looks like, but no, it was a question asked in an interview that got huge press. There was no "announcement".

Didn't say it was an announcement. The statement/answer is what I called a publicity stunt. It's not something you say without first giving it thought. 

Nothing in my post for you to clear up or correct.

[Darth Richard II]

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

5 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

- droid civil rights: overdue in this universe but it stands out because it was never contemplated in movies set before and after this.  Phantom Menace even has active slavery of people.  Here we see slavery of people without a blip of protest (Han and Chewie are brought as slaves) but we hear sermons about droid civil rights.  The juxtaposition is weird and insincere: virtue signaling by empty sermons.  Also, we never see the perspective of mass unemployment of low-skilled workers replaced by droids; we see it from the sympathetic view of the droids (an anti-Trumpian stance in our current situation).

 

Han and Q'ira have never seen the place.  Lando makes the moment as they approach the planet "Mining colonies are the worst", to which Beckett forlornly responds "Yeah well, 'the worst' is where the money is".  Then there's the whole slave revolt thing.  So maybe a a few blips of protest.  Also, you do realize that Han and Chewbaccas part in the plan was a bit of subterfuge, right?  That they weren't actually sold into slavery?

As for unemployment, Han mentions that his father built ships until he was laid off.  They didn't delve any deeper into that, but I'm satisfied that the screenwriters will find time to touch on all societal ills in later installments.

[HokieStone]

Just got back from seeing it - I enjoyed it, and my first reaction is that it's neck and neck with Rogue One for being the best Star Wars movie outside the original trilogy.  After thinking about it a bit though, there are enough issues that put it solidly below R1 for me.  Still enjoy it much better than the dreck of the prequels and sequels.

I don't have much of a problem with Han being a "good guy" here...as someone upthread mentioned, I think he'll turn into the more embittered Han in the intervening years.  We already knew that he had done "good" in his past since he had rescued Chewbacca.  Speaking of which...I didn't quite get out of that what I was expecting.  He didn't exactly rescue Chewie, as much as they worked together to escape the prison (also, I did find the "he hasn't eaten in 3 days" line to be odd...I don't think they meant Chewie was eating people, just that he was likely to be really angry because of hunger.  That's what I'm telling myself anyway).  Also, he didn't really help Chewie free the other Wookies...he just tossed him that weapon and basically said "good luck".  So...nothing that would really merit the "life debt" thing. 

As for Han funding the Rebellion - that's not the sense I got.  At least not funding the entire Rebellion.  I took it as meaning that hyperfuel stuff would be enough to maybe help that local cell get off the ground.

Too many things about Qi-Ra were just a little too convenient.  Han goes through all this stuff just to try and get back to find her...and she just happens to be on the yacht of the crime boss?  Shades of Rey and Finn just happening upon the Millennium Falcon in the TFA, and then just happening to run into Han Solo right after they steal it (who just happened to have lost(?) the Falcon previously, but somehow he was near where it was being kept).  Also having Qi-Ra be the one who knew Lando was a little too convenient.  I wish the Han-Lando meeting had been a little more organic.

Donald Glover was really good as Lando...but perhaps not as "great" as I thought he would be.  Based on the previews, I thought he was going to absolutely steal the movie, but I don't feel that he did.

Lastly, the Darth Maul stuff.  People who haven't seen the cartoons are going to be confused.  As they should be.  One of the (few) great things about "The Phantom Menace" was Darth Maul...and one of the worst decisions of that movie was to kill him off.  He should have been a terror in all 3 of the prequels.  And the powers that be eventually recognized that, and came up with the convoluted way to resurrect him.  But it's awkward as hell.  And yeah, they're treading a thin line with any potential Solo sequel, and Han's obliviousness of the Force in the original movie.  (And yes, the lightsaber twirl was eye-rolling).

The movie was full of easter eggs, but my favorite may have been the appearance of the "tusk helmet" that Lando would later wear when infiltrating Jabba's palace.  Also...were those Ewok gliders on Lando's "Hawaiian shirt" in the last scene?

[Aemon Stark]

7 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

- the marauders were immediately and improbably embraced by Han even though they killed his (kind of) friend and crew mate just a few days earlier and indirectly caused the death of second.  Everyone in this story has suffered under the crushing rule of the Empire, so why is their version suddenly/miraculously irresistibly compelling?

Well I didn't have a problem with his siding with them per se. But that whole subplot was rushed and underwritten. This is more of a criticism of the writing - don't see how it has much to do with "virtue signalling" unless you want to argue the same applies to the paradigm of "Rebellion good, Empire bad". 

7 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

- droid civil rights: overdue in this universe but it stands out because it was never contemplated in movies set before and after this.  Phantom Menace even has active slavery of people.  Here we see slavery of people without a blip of protest (Han and Chewie are brought as slaves) but we hear sermons about droid civil rights.  The juxtaposition is weird and insincere: virtue signaling by empty sermons.  Also, we never see the perspective of mass unemployment of low-skilled workers replaced by droids; we see it from the sympathetic view of the droids (an anti-Trumpian stance in our current situation).

Lando treated L3's politics as an amusing quasi-annoying eccentricity. But this argument makes about as much sense as criticizing Hermione for her House Elf Liberation Front. 

7 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

- the border control scene was a pretty heavy allegory for illegal immigrants trying to enter the US, with stormtroopers for border patrol and/or ICE.  Plus the military recruiting scene also made the clearest association yet of the US govt/military with the Empire, which had previously been more directly associated with the Nazis (and the Rebellion as the RAF).

It seemed more like security at an airport ("have your boarding pass ready!") combined with a comment on the Empire's intrinsic corruption. I didn't get the US connection exactly, but they weren't exactly pulling a Starship Troopers-style thing ("Service guarantees citizenship!! Do you want to know more?"). 

7 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

- the public announcement outside of the movie to label Lando as pan-sexual was irrelevant to his character and felt like a competition for inclusion brownie points, and possibly queer baiting (like Dumbledore).

So even though I agree with the politics reflected in all four, the former two have a negative effect on the quality/integrity of the movie itself, and all four will make the movie feel like something “of it’s time” to later viewers. 

Meh, the script was a mess generally. Not sure "later viewers" are going to be much of an issue...

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

51 minutes ago, Aemon Stark said:

But this argument makes about as much sense as criticizing Hermione for her House Elf Liberation Front. 

Yeah, first its the Elves.  Next it'll be the Wraiths, the Dragons, the Dwarfs, the Squibs, the Half-Giants, the Goblins, the Half-Goblins, the Hags and the gay Wizards!

And who's out there speaking for the hetero white males? Baldercrap! That's who.

[Darth Richard II]

Shit, I love this board. The Star Wars discussion on other web sites is just flat out crazy as fuck right now. Apparently, Kathleen Kennedy and JJ Abrams and Johnson will be fired ANY SECOND NOW, and some other guy went on a long rant about how Marvel should buy Lucasfilm.

Oh and something something SJW something.

[Relic]

I haven't seen this film because of boycotting Fox reasons (ill pirate it at some point),  but i want to say that i find all the bitching about SJW to be hilarious. It's amazing that these people have the nerve to call anyone else snowflakes. These angry virgins are triggered by the most inconsequential of things, and they never every stop crying. Pathetic. 

[Darth Richard II]

Um, this has nothing to do with Fox.

[Relic]

30 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

Um, this has nothing to do with Fox.

The Disney/Fox acquisition, i mean. I'll never spend another penny on a Disney property again. Ive explained this in other threads, so i won't rehash.

[Darth Richard II]

Heh, ok.