Claimants for Azor Ahai

[Hugorfonics]

14 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

Salt and smoke of the kitchen, conceivably could be the illegitimate union of a Targaryen and his mother and was reborn to a new life in essence when he left King's Landing. Pretty much he's evidence that you can make a case for almost anyone given the vagueness and open endedness of this "prophecy."

In all seriousness though, you could make a case for Davos and being "reborn" at Storm's End and later at the Blackwater. Though I really think the story will happen as it will, and who AAR was won't be spelled out, and people will still be arguing over who it was even after the final novel is published. 

Lol smoke and salt of the kitchen. Don't forget, Hot Pies mother could have died in childbirth.

I guess some people are a stretch, especially the rebirth. But Hot Pie didn't kill his love, Davos neither. Then there are characters like Ygritte or Shae that are pretty useless and only serve the story as Nissa.

I agree grrm won't tell us exactly who Azor Ahai('s) is, but in sure he'll leave enough clues

[Chancho]

Dany doesn't have a magic sword, Brienne and Jon have so my Money are on them to be either Azor Ahai or Nissa Nissa.

[The Lord of the Crossing]

15 minutes ago, Chancho said:

Dany doesn't have a magic sword, Brienne and Jon have so my Money are on them to be either Azor Ahai or Nissa Nissa.

Brienne the Beauty and Jon Snow are not going to hatch dragons.  I do not think they are Azor Ahai.  Dany is the Azor Ahai who fulfilled the requirements of the prophecy and woke dragons from stone.  

[Chancho]

48 minutes ago, Noble Lothar Frey said:

Brienne the Beauty and Jon Snow are not going to hatch dragons.  I do not think they are Azor Ahai.  Dany is the Azor Ahai who fulfilled the requirements of the prophecy and woke dragons from stone.  

Azor Ahai didn' hatch no dragons, he had a magic sword! Lightbringer... I don't know if every prophecy must be condensed in one character, it's very possible, but would be more boring to me. Do You think the dragons are a metaphor to the lightbringer?

[Lord Lannister]

7 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Lol smoke and salt of the kitchen. Don't forget, Hot Pies mother could have died in childbirth.

I guess some people are a stretch, especially the rebirth. But Hot Pie didn't kill his love, Davos neither. Then there are characters like Ygritte or Shae that are pretty useless and only serve the story as Nissa.

I agree grrm won't tell us exactly who Azor Ahai('s) is, but in sure he'll leave enough clues

Honestly, I could see Stannis being a potential Nissa Nissa for Davos. He's already demonstrated with Edric that despite how ardently devoted he is to Stannis, that he'll go against him if he feels it's the right thing to do.

5 hours ago, Noble Lothar Frey said:

Brienne the Beauty and Jon Snow are not going to hatch dragons.  I do not think they are Azor Ahai.  Dany is the Azor Ahai who fulfilled the requirements of the prophecy and woke dragons from stone.  

Even if Melisandre uses them interchangeably, I'd argue the Prince that was Promised and AAR aren't necessarily the same thing and conceivably two different people. Maybe even three if you buy into the dragon having three heads.

[Hugorfonics]

1 hour ago, Lord Lannister said:

Honestly, I could see Stannis being a potential Nissa Nissa for Davos. He's already demonstrated with Edric that despite how ardently devoted he is to Stannis, that he'll go against him if he feels it's the right thing to do.

I wouldn't put my money on it. My boy is loy-al. He rationalized that Edrics death would be a death in Stannis' kingdom, hard to rationalize killing a king. Though I'm sure Jaime never imagined killing Aerys so you may be right.

He's got a wife, and Devan. So anythings possible.

1 hour ago, Lord Lannister said:

Even if Melisandre uses them interchangeably, I'd argue the Prince that was Promised and AAR aren't necessarily the same thing and conceivably two different people. Maybe even three if you buy into the dragon having three heads.

The last hero also shares some qualities. I dont think it's unreasonable that Bran may kill Meera or Hodor. Definitely a good case for being reborn.

 Rheagar only refers to his son as the Prince, not Azor but yea Mel says both. Maybe last hero too actually, I think

5 hours ago, Chancho said:

Azor Ahai didn' hatch no dragons, he had a magic sword! Lightbringer... I don't know if every prophecy must be condensed in one character, it's very possible, but would be more boring to me. Do You think the dragons are a metaphor to the lightbringer?

Azor Ahai woke stone dragons, I think it's different then forging lightbringer.

So lightbringer is a sword that lights others on fire, like the one Sam had. (Who'd he kill? Lol, sent to the wall for being fat, who heard of that?) So I think dragonglass has something to do with it

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

On 5/24/2018 at 7:28 PM, Agent Orange said:

The prophecy has already been fulfilled.  Daenerys Targaryen mercy killed her brain-dead husband, her Nissa Nissa.  She "woke dragons from stone" and the timing fit in neatly with the red comet.  Thus proving that Daenerys is Azor Ahai.  

This is what I think too.  Dany is the Azor Ahai reborn.  The other main characters may play important roles as well but they are not Azor Ahai.  

[kissdbyfire]

Are we all clear on the fact that Azor Ahai was an arsehole? Ok then, as long we're clear on that... 

[Chancho]

5 hours ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

This is what I think too.  Dany is the Azor Ahai reborn.  The other main characters may play important roles as well but they are not Azor Ahai.  

Who is her Nissa Nissa?

[Chancho]

The Prince that was promised, have a song of ice and fire... That fits Jon Snow better, are you guys sure that Azor Ahai hatched dragons? Because Melisandre could be mixing things up.

[Megorova]

11 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Are we all clear on the fact that Azor Ahai was an arsehole? Ok then, as long we're clear on that... 

?

If he didn't sacrificed his wife's life to forge Lightbringer, then the Others would have won, and killed everyone, including Nissa Nissa, Azor Ahai, all people and all living beings on Planetos. Nissa would have still died, only more painful - ripped apart by zombies, and eaten alive. At least her husband killed her fast, and her death saved entire planet.

[Alexis-something-Rose]

Dany has had the prophecy in the literal sense and Jon has been surrounded by the signs in the metaphorical sense. In ADWD, Jon III, at "Mance's" burning, he says that Val was still as if she had been carved in salt and in the same chapter, he remarks that Stannis is stone and Melisandre is flame.

Quote

"The Horn of Joramun? No. Call it the Horn of Darkness. If the Wall falls, night falls as well, the long night that never ends. It must not happen, will not happen! The Lord of Light has seen his children in their peril and sent a champion to them, Azor Ahai reborn." She swept her hand toward Stannis, and the great ruby at her throat pulsed with light.
He is stone and she is flame. (Jon III, ADWD)

But I know no one cares about book quotes. 

[kissdbyfire]

55 minutes ago, Megorova said:

?

If he didn't sacrificed his wife's life to forge Lightbringer, then the Others would have won, and killed everyone, including Nissa Nissa, Azor Ahai, all people and all living beings on Planetos. Nissa would have still died, only more painful - ripped apart by zombies, and eaten alive. At least her husband killed her fast, and her death saved entire planet.

Or so people were told. 

[Azarial]

3 hours ago, Widow's Watch said:

Dany has had the prophecy in the literal sense and Jon has been surrounded by the signs in the metaphorical sense. In ADWD, Jon III, at "Mance's" burning, he says that Val was still as if she had been carved in salt and in the same chapter, he remarks that Stannis is stone and Melisandre is flame.

But I know no one cares about book quotes. 

I noticed that as well. The other was Sam asking when Jon's heart turned to stone.

Quote

He could not blame Gilly for her grief. Instead, he blamed Jon Snow and wondered when Jon's heart had turned to stone. Once he asked Maester Aemon that very question, when Gilly was down at the canal fetching water for them. "When you raised him up to be the lord commander," the old man answered.

So if Stannis, Mel, and Val are showing us a trio of fire, stone and salt (and if salt and snow/ice look the same in visions as some speculate) then that could imply that we are looking for a trio that represent those things. And Mel and Dany came from Essos (when I say came from I mean grew up there, where Dany was born is irrelevant) and are fire Queens, Stannis and Jon both from Westerose and are stone Kings, Val and ? from north of the wall and represent ice Queens? maybe...

The fact that so many things point to their being three is the most confusing part as I am sure about both Jon and Dany, but is the third a lion of night character, or an ice character, or a water character? We are given lots of trinity stuff in the books but they all indicated a different third.

[Bowen 747]

On 5/24/2018 at 7:28 PM, Agent Orange said:

The prophecy has already been fulfilled.  Daenerys Targaryen mercy killed her brain-dead husband, her Nissa Nissa.  She "woke dragons from stone" and the timing fit in neatly with the red comet.  Thus proving that Daenerys is Azor Ahai.  

 

On 5/25/2018 at 8:26 AM, LynnS said:

I'll throw in some cracked pot out of the box thinking on this one.  Dany is the prince who is a woman, that was promised. She fills the conditions of the prophecy and was reborn during MMD's tent ritual.   She hatches dragons from stone and resurrects the great dragon, the man limned in flame that she sees in MMDs fire.   Drogon is the valyrian sphinx, a dragon with the head of a man, someone that Jaqen refers to as 'Him of Fire' when he swears to Arya by all the gods and 'even him of fire', newly awakened by Dany.  The Targ god Balerion reborn.

Dany sacrifices the life of her unborn son to resurrect the soul contained in the black egg, thus changing states with him. Ergo, he died long ago.  Jorah asks if Dany can wake the dead and the answer is yes; ultimately the meaning behind Targ obsession with transforming into a dragon or waking the dragon.

The story of AA is a story, a means for explaining something in heroic terms for something people really don't understand. We're expecting someone to show up with a magic sword and transform it into something powerful by literally plunging it into Nissa Nissa's heart.  AA is a figure out of history who transformed his sword by plunging it into the heart of a dragon.  We get that part of the story when AA slew a monster:

 

 This is the same description of Dany transformed by spiritual fire into a dragon:
 

Dany is tempered by fire and reforged anew.  In reality, this is what Mel refers to as 'the cleansing fire'.  Dany is both AA, the Sword of Justice and Lightbringer, the one  who lights the path.  Drogon is Him of Fire, the singing 'dragon', Rhaegar resurrected, Balerion reborn.

Daenerys Targaryen is Azor Ahai but Rhaegar is not in Drogon.  There is nothing of Rhaegar in Drogon.  If there is a part of Rhaegar in one of the dragons other than his shared DNA with their mother, it will be in Rhaegal.  

[Alexis-something-Rose]

4 hours ago, Azarial said:

So if Stannis, Mel, and Val are showing us a trio of fire, stone and salt (and if salt and snow/ice look the same in visions as some speculate) then that could imply that we are looking for a trio that represent those things. And Mel and Dany came from Essos (when I say came from I mean grew up there, where Dany was born is irrelevant) and are fire Queens, Stannis and Jon both from Westerose and are stone Kings, Val and ? from north of the wall and represent ice Queens? maybe...

I don't know if it's necessarily a trio, but I think they will be important to Jon. Jon's true identity is hidden, therefore his signs are also hidden, but Jon comes in contact with the prophecy when Mel and Stannis make it to the Wall, and he identifies these people as salt, fire (smoke) and stone. We've got salt and smoke at the wall, but stone is sitting at the crofter's village.

And where Dany was born is relevant. Or the circumstances under which she was born, during a summer storm, with Stannis sent by Robert (storm lords) to capture her and Viserys.

Robert killed Rhaegar on the Trident. 

And Jon has had Stannis at the Wall and in the north.

There are these "opposites" with all three. Dany born in a storm, emerges from fire. Rhaegar born in fire, dies in water. Jon born in Dorne, stabbed at the Wall.

[LynnS]

2 hours ago, Bowen 747 said:

 

Daenerys Targaryen is Azor Ahai but Rhaegar is not in Drogon.  There is nothing of Rhaegar in Drogon.  If there is a part of Rhaegar in one of the dragons other than his shared DNA with their mother, it will be in Rhaegal.  

If you believe that a Targ soul can end up in a dragon egg; why is it so difficult that Rheagar's soul ended up in his dragon egg?  I don't actually believe Illyrio when he tells Dany that the eggs came from Asshai.  I think at least one of them came from a Targ stash, that being the largest of them - the black and red egg.  I don't think it's coincidence that Rhaegar dresses in black armor or that Dany dreams of herself changing places places with Rhaegar and wearing his armor.  Or that she dreams of transforming into the black dragon herself, wearing the dragon's armor in other words.   To my mind this is what the Targs have in common with the Starks; they have animal familiars who house their souls when the body dies.  The Targs have to go a step further and hatch the eggs that contain the souls to be transformed into their second life. 

I don't think it's a coincidence that the dragons sings to Dany in her dream.  It's Rheagar who spent his time alone composing songs.

And I don't think these are Dany's thoughts and they are certainly not her memories:
 

Quote

 

A Storm of Swords - Daenerys III

Ser Jorah had no answer. He only smiled, and touched her hair, so lightly. It was enough.

That night she dreamt that she was Rhaegar, riding to the Trident. But she was mounted on a dragon, not a horse. When she saw the Usurper's rebel host across the river they were armored all in ice, but she bathed them in dragonfire and they melted away like dew and turned the Trident into a torrent. Some small part of her knew that she was dreaming, but another part exulted. This is how it was meant to be. The other was a nightmare, and I have only now awakened.

 

Quote

 

A Game of Thrones - Daenerys III

Ser Jorah snorted. "Can you wake the dead, girl? Your brother Rhaegar was the last dragon, and he died on the Trident. Viserys is less than the shadow of a snake."

 

I think this is the meaning of waking the dragon or as Davos puts it "waking the great dragon".  This is the Targ version of the Musgrave Ritual, that Dany unravels.

[Azarial]

2 minutes ago, Widow's Watch said:

I don't know if it's necessarily a trio, but I think they will be important to Jon. Jon's true identity is hidden, therefore his signs are also hidden, but Jon comes in contact with the prophecy when Mel and Stannis make it to the Wall, and he identifies these people as salt, fire (smoke) and stone. We've got salt and smoke at the wall, but stone is sitting at the crofter's village.

And where Dany was born is relevant. Or the circumstances under which she was born, during a summer storm, with Stannis sent by Robert (storm lords) to capture her and Viserys.

Robert killed Rhaegar on the Trident. 

And Jon has had Stannis at the Wall and in the north.

You misunderstood. I only meant it is irrelevant for the fire analogy, with Dany being raised in Essos which is related to summer, fire and heat the same as Mel. Just didn't want someone to say Dany is from Westerose not Essos. As in this one specific context where she was raised is what is important. Just like Jon is from the North even though he was born in the south, but him being born in the south doesn't mean he's a southerner not a northerner. I wasn't saying it has no barring on other things, I'm well aware that it does.

I suspect that there are many triads shown throughout the books, and that there are groupings of seven as well as lone characters as one three and seven are all significant themes. This triad just clearly illustrated the components of the prophecy in a way that makes me think any Azor Ahi type character is likely part of a triad, not that that is their only grouping. 

[Hugorfonics]

3 hours ago, LynnS said:

If you believe that a Targ soul can end up in a dragon egg; why is it so difficult that Rheagar's soul ended up in his dragon egg?  I don't actually believe Illyrio when he tells Dany that the eggs came from Asshai.  I think at least one of them came from a Targ stash, that being the largest of them - the black and red egg.  I don't think it's coincidence that Rhaegar dresses in black armor or that Dany dreams of herself changing places places with Rhaegar and wearing his armor.  Or that she dreams of transforming into the black dragon herself, wearing the dragon's armor in other words.   To my mind this is what the Targs have in common with the Starks; they have animal familiars who house their souls when the body dies.  The Targs have to go a step further and hatch the eggs that contain the souls to be transformed into their second life. 

I don't think it's a coincidence that the dragons sings to Dany in her dream.  It's Rheagar who spent his time alone composing songs.

And I don't think these are Dany's thoughts and they are certainly not her memories:
 

I think this is the meaning of waking the dragon or as Davos puts it "waking the great dragon".  This is the Targ version of the Musgrave Ritual, that Dany unravels.

That's very interesting. Targs were always know to be greenseeres, never heard of them having warg like qualities. Though that Dany dream is convincing. My issue is that if Drogon is Rheagar or Aerys or Egg or whomever, why does he keep flying away from Dany? Hell, he almost killed her in the pit

[kissdbyfire]

1 minute ago, Hugorfonics said:

Targs were always know to be greenseeres

I'm not sure where you're getting that from... care to elaborate?