Claimants for Azor Ahai

[chrisdaw]

Drogo is signified by his braid. His long BLACK braid that symbolises his ferocity and superiority, the braid that has his bells that SING his coming. The braid that was wrapped around the egg Drogon hatched from. That's what isn't a coincidence. Not a coincidence either is how GRRM chooses to begin the scene of Drogon returning to save Dany.

Quote

 

Through the grass came a soft silvery tinkling.

Bells, Dany thought, smiling, remembering Khal Drogo, her sun-and-stars, and the bells he braided into his hair. When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east, when the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves, when my womb quickens again and I bear a living child, Khal Drogo will return to me.

But none of those things had happened. Bells, Dany thought again. Her bloodriders had found her. "Aggo," she whispered. "Jhogo. Rakharo." Might Daario have come with them?

The green sea opened. A rider appeared. His braid was black and shiny, his skin as dark as burnished copper, his eyes the shape of bitter almonds. Bells sang in his hair. He wore a medallion belt and painted vest, with an arakh on one hip and a whip on the other. A hunting bow and a quiver of arrows were slung from his saddle.

One rider, and alone. A scout. He was one who rode before the khalasar to find the game and the good green grass, and sniff out foes whereverthey might hide. If he found her there, he would kill her, rape her, or enslave her. At best, he would send her back to the crones of the doshkhaleen, where good khaleesi were supposed to go when their khals had died.

He did not see her, though. The grass concealed her, and he was looking elsewhere. Dany followed his eyes, and there the shadow flew, with wings spread wide. The dragon was a mile off, and yet the scout stood frozen until his stallion began to whicker in fear. Then he woke as if from a dream, wheeled his mount about, and raced off through the tall grass at a gallop.

 

 

[Hugorfonics]

2 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

I'm not sure where you're getting that from... care to elaborate?

Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly or forgetting something, but to my understanding Jojens a greenseer, which means he dreams of the future. The Fiddler and Eggs brother also dreamt of the future, as they say Targs do. Hence Targs greensee

Jojen also said only a few greenessers can warg, so I guess it is possible for Rheagar to have gone into the dragon egg. Pretty crackpot though but I like it lol

[LynnS]

2 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

Drogo is signified by his braid. His long BLACK braid that symbolises his ferocity and superiority, the braid that has his bells that SING his coming. The braid that was wrapped around the egg Drogon hatched from. That's what isn't a coincidence. Not a coincidence either is how GRRM chooses to begin the scene of Drogon returning to save Dany.

 

Dany has the dream of the singing dragon in Danaerys III GoT, long before Drogo's funeral.  She also sees Drogo's soul mount the grey stallion and ascend to the stars.  So I don't think his soul went into the black egg and I think becoming a dragon is something specific to Targs rather than Dothraki.  I still don't know what MMD meant when she said that Dany would see Drogo again or IF she would see him again.  Expecting Drogo to show up to save her from Aggo might be a function of a wishful thinking and a delusional mind given her physical state at the end of Dance.

As for Drogo's black braid and the bells in his hair; Dany doesn't dream of herself becoming Khal Drogo; she dreams of herself wearing Rhaegar's black armor.  Transforming into the black dragon is akin to wearing black armor.

I suspect we will have to agree to disagree on this one.   

[chrisdaw]

1 hour ago, LynnS said:

Expecting Drogo to show up to save her from Aggo might be a function of a wishful thinking and a delusional mind given her physical state at the end of Dance.

What it is is a function of GRRM spelling it out thematically. Dream dragon is a dream and symbolic, doesn't matter when. Smoke Drogo is also symbolic, like him heading off into a second life to ride the night sky is pretty straight forward symbolism for a second life as a dragon. The point of the ending to the wake the dragon dream is that she has succeeded where Rhaegar failed, she is the last dragon.

[LynnS]

51 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

What it is is a function of GRRM spelling it out thematically. Dream dragon is a dream and symbolic, doesn't matter when. Smoke Drogo is also symbolic, like him heading off into a second life to ride the night sky is pretty straight forward symbolism for a second life as a dragon. The point of the ending to the wake the dragon dream is that she has succeeded where Rhaegar failed, she is the last dragon.

Wolf dreams aren't just symbolic, they are experiential.  I suspect that Dany's dragon dream has something of the same quality to it.  Yes, she becomes the last dragon but there is more to waking the great dragon than just the potential for a second life as a dragon.  She does discover or carry out the ritual and sacrifices required to wake dragons from stone; something that has been forgotten. I'm not entirely sure where she gets the knowledge to lay the wood from ice to fire, place the eggs by the head, heart and genitals, provide the sacrifice of holy blood (MMD) or that dragon eggs have to be heated and brooded for at least nine months before they can be hatched.  

She goes beyond the mere hatching of eggs; to the resurrection of the dead in exchange for the life of her unborn son.  When Mirri makes her 'prophecy' about Drogo; she has no idea that Dany will perform a ritual to hatch the eggs until the moment itself.  So I don't think Mirri is making any kind of prophecy at the time; but rather rubbing it in Dany's face.   

It isn't clear to me where Dany gets this knowledge except that she has been transformed by the singing dragon; remade an cleansed in a spiritual fire. 

I think there is strong symbolism around Rhaegar, his armor and the black dragon and Dany 'wearing' his armor.

[Darth Sidious]

Khal Drogo had more dragon traits of ferocity, bravery, and badassness than any Targaryen alive during the beginning of AGOT.  The man didn't come by his power the easy way, he worked for it.  He never lost a fight nor a battle.  His was definitely a larger than life existence.  I cannot think of anyone more suitable to provide the soul needed to bring back a mighty dragon like Drogon.  Whose to say the exchange had to be 1:1.  The dragons' birth could have required the payment of many lives.  For example, Khal Drogo, Prince Rhaego, King Viserys III, Mirri Maz Duur, the stallion, Drogo's Bloodriders, Eroeh, and Prince Rhaegar.  This is under the belief that only death can pay for life.

George may decide to clarify in the future and we will have our answers.  Maybe it doesn't take a death to pay for a life.  The right person just has to perform the ritual (Daenerys) at the right time (Red Comet).  After all, Aegon V had all the ingredients but no dragons hatched for him.  I suspect because Aegon is not Daenerys and the Red Comet was not present.  

 

[LynnS]

2 hours ago, Agent Orange said:

Khal Drogo had more dragon traits of ferocity, bravery, and badassness than any Targaryen alive during the beginning of AGOT.  The man didn't come by his power the easy way, he worked for it.  He never lost a fight nor a battle.  His was definitely a larger than life existence.  I cannot think of anyone more suitable to provide the soul needed to bring back a mighty dragon like Drogon.  Whose to say the exchange had to be 1:1.  The dragons' birth could have required the payment of many lives.  For example, Khal Drogo, Prince Rhaego, King Viserys III, Mirri Maz Duur, the stallion, Drogo's Bloodriders, Eroeh, and Prince Rhaegar.  This is under the belief that only death can pay for life.

George may decide to clarify in the future and we will have our answers.  Maybe it doesn't take a death to pay for a life.  The right person just has to perform the ritual (Daenerys) at the right time (Red Comet).  After all, Aegon V had all the ingredients but no dragons hatched for him.  I suspect because Aegon is not Daenerys and the Red Comet was not present.  

 

The ritual that Dany performs and what she sees in the flames is on a different order of sorcery than Melisandre burning some blood filled leaches in her brazier.  We know there is a certain power in using Varys' genitals as a burnt offering,  Dany offers, the head, the heart and genitals of a king along with the live offering of holy blood, MMD, the godswife.  We also get some hint of the use of holy blood for sorcery in the Foresaken chapter with Euron.   We never get a glimpse of what Mel actually sees; we only get it this one time with Dany.  It's Drogo's fiery whip that cracks the eggs, but the dragon bursts from MMD's head.  We get that in Dany's vision in the House of Undying. 

Preceding all of this is Dany's own transformation when she wakes the dragon in the stone and it sings to her bathing her in cleansing fire.  I think it is the dragon song that confers on her temporary immunity from fire.   Perhaps she is hearing the 'song of fire'.   Songs and singing are part of the rituals of magic.  Mel does it and Mirri sings as well.

She then exchanges the life of her son for the dragon long dead during the tent ritual.  Her unborn son changes states with the dead dragon and is born dead wrapped in dragon skin while the life in the egg is restored.  Someone who was long dead or so Dany tells us.  That can't be Drogo.

     

[chrisdaw]

6 hours ago, Agent Orange said:

Khal Drogo had more dragon traits of ferocity, bravery, and badassness than any Targaryen alive during the beginning of AGOT.  The man didn't come by his power the easy way, he worked for it.  He never lost a fight nor a battle.  His was definitely a larger than life existence.  I cannot think of anyone more suitable to provide the soul needed to bring back a mighty dragon like Drogon.  Whose to say the exchange had to be 1:1.  The dragons' birth could have required the payment of many lives.  For example, Khal Drogo, Prince Rhaego, King Viserys III, Mirri Maz Duur, the stallion, Drogo's Bloodriders, Eroeh, and Prince Rhaegar.  This is under the belief that only death can pay for life.

George may decide to clarify in the future and we will have our answers.  Maybe it doesn't take a death to pay for a life.  The right person just has to perform the ritual (Daenerys) at the right time (Red Comet).  After all, Aegon V had all the ingredients but no dragons hatched for him.  I suspect because Aegon is not Daenerys and the Red Comet was not present.

You are right to identify Drogo's ferocity as a trait of Drogon. The text goes farther and more explicit too, for example Drogon chooses to hunt the Dothraki Sea and makes it his home, just like a Khal. The text harps on not just his alpha status, but his will to be free roaming, the most wild and one who most hates captivity. Rammed home by him not having been locked up with the other 2 but escaping capture.

And it is from his culture prompted by his death we get the line, "the more fiercely the man burned in life, the brighter his star will shine in the darkness." The symbolism of which with relation to a second life as a dragon should be obvious.

Of course it takes death to make this happen. The answers are there in the wake the dragon dream. It wouldn't have worked without Rhaego. Dany conceives by Drogo and along comes the dragon. Rhaego provides your fire, he literally turns into fire. You need a child sacrifice to kickstart shit. A theme basic and balanced, the ultimate power at the ultimate price. Your child for a dragon.

That's why it didn't work at Summerhall, because Rhaegar lived. Had he died it would have.

That's why Mel's trying to sacrifice a child to wake a dragon. She doesn't quite get it, doesn't know the hows, but she understands enough to know a child has to be sacrificed.

It is why Euron knows he needs Dany, that he needs a child of his and her blood. He has an understanding of what Dany did, of what happened to Drogo, and he wants in. Hence all the imagery in his chapters about ascension, of becoming a god.

[Son of Man]

Here's a link to a previous discussion:

 

 

[The Commentator]

15 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

That's why it didn't work at Summerhall, because Rhaegar lived. Had he died it would have.

Interesting.  Maybe that's why Rhaegar had a morose disposition.  His family line was not meant to be.  If there is truth to R+L=J, perhaps we can look forward to Jon getting fed to the flames and becoming a sacrificial offering.  

[The Commentator]

15 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

That's why Mel's trying to sacrifice a child to wake a dragon. She doesn't quite get it, doesn't know the hows, but she understands enough to know a child has to be sacrificed.

I say the sacrifice of a virgin will be even more effective.  Let's feed Sansa to the flames and see what miracles might come of it.  

[Azarial]

4 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Interesting.  Maybe that's why Rhaegar had a morose disposition.  His family line was not meant to be.  If there is truth to R+L=J, perhaps we can look forward to Jon getting fed to the flames and becoming a sacrificial offering.  

A king then the son to wake a dragon so BOTH DIE kings. So Aerys should have died and that means Dany wasn't meant to be either and should be killed too. Nice try though.

[Valyrian Lance]

In respect to the clause about waking dragons from stone, that may not refer to an actual dragon.

In the two previous examples of prophecies in the series coming true, both dragons turned out to be Targaryens.

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This pale white castle, you, a dragon bursting from an egg, I dreamed it all, just as I once dreamed of my brothers lying dead.

~ Daemon II Blackfyre

The dragon bursting from the egg was Aegon V and not an actual dragon.

Quote

I dreamed of you and a dead dragon, you see. A great beast, huge, with wings so large they could cover this meadow. It had fallen on top of you, but you were alive and the dragon was dead.

~ Daeron Targaryen

This dragon was Baelor Breakspear.

[Azarial]

14 minutes ago, Valyrian Lance said:

In respect to the clause about waking dragons from stone, that may not refer to an actual dragon.

In the two previous examples of prophecies in the series coming true, both dragons turned out to be Targaryens.

The dragon bursting from the egg was Aegon V and not an actual dragon.

This dragon was Baelor Breakspear.

this also ties in with people being swords, or Ironborn being the sea, I'm not sure if we have ever seen a literal vision, they are symbolic every time I can think of.

[YeniAy_Ottoman]

Nissa Nissa is someone who is in legend. There is no such information in the prophecy. There is no such request. But even if ... Kill first, after a few more(days, weeks or years?) sword is born? Does that make sense? Is this the legend? No. Sacrifice and the birth of the sword are the same time.

 

[Darth Sidious]

7 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Interesting.  Maybe that's why Rhaegar had a morose disposition.  His family line was not meant to be.  If there is truth to R+L=J, perhaps we can look forward to Jon getting fed to the flames and becoming a sacrificial offering.  

I'm on board with this, roast Jon Snow and scatter his ashes on top of the wall.  

11 hours ago, Son of Man said:

Here's a link to a previous discussion:

 

 

 

[chrisdaw]

11 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Interesting.  Maybe that's why Rhaegar had a morose disposition.  His family line was not meant to be.  If there is truth to R+L=J, perhaps we can look forward to Jon getting fed to the flames and becoming a sacrificial offering.  

Rhaegar was that way because he understood the sacrifice portion. At first he thought it was himself that had to be sacrificed (Jojen is the same and thus has the same personality), then he thought it was Aegon (hence why he is happy but with a deep sadness at Aegon's birth) and because the dragon has three heads he thought he'd need three sacrifices. Hence why he had to go have Jon.

Rhaegar had Jon for the purpose of sacrificing to wake a dragon. That is what Targs do. In contrast the other father figure made every sacrifice he had to so that Jon would live. Targ vs Stark, consumption vs preservation, fire vs ice. And that is where the series starts and ends, in Jon's mind and choice with regards to the ideologies of the two hoses and two fathers.

It isn't about Jon being the sacrifice, because lets face it Jon would do that without hesitation, there's no dilemma in that. No, you need a baby, it is about whether or not he sacrifices his (and Dany's) little girl to wake the dragon.

[Sea Dragon]

Queen Danaerys Stormborm. She is a storm goddess. 

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

On 5/27/2018 at 2:16 AM, Chancho said:

Who is her Nissa Nissa?

Her husband, Drogo.  

[Chancho]

1 minute ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

Her husband, Drogo.  

Drogo was already a vegetable, don't seems like a true sacrifice at all, i even call that mercy.