Was the second shadowbaby necessary?

[Canon Claude]

From what we see, the shadowbabies have a profound physical effect on Stannis. He ages considerably and becomes very thin. Not necessarily a good idea to have your king physically weaken himself when his cause isn’t secure and his heir is a sickly child.

I won’t pretend like the first shadowbaby wasn’t worth it. Renly’s death was one of the huge turning points for Stannis’ cause. The second time seems a bit unnecessary. Surely there was another way to resolve the siege of Storm’s End? Stannis lived in that castle for years and defended it from the Tyrells as a teenager. He might know a way to take the castle that others wouldn’t know. Or maybe someone inside the castle could have been persuaded to murder Penrose (it’s not like Penrose was in a good position what with Renly dead). Or, why not just fight Penrose? Stannis is an experienced man of war and has an age and size advantage against Penrose. Killing him would end the siege.

[Arthur Peres]

I have the same impression. Stannis didn't even need to fight Penrose he could name someone else as his champion, The Lords were volunteering themselfs to fight in his name, and one of them even says that it would be a easy victory. 

 

[Stormking902]

I do agree Penrose should have been handled a bit better say then shadow baby #2 BUT time wasn't on Stannis side and he needed to gain as many of the Stormlords as possible before his attack on KL. Holding SE puts a Baratheon back at the Helm which would bring him more Allys and seeing what kings blood does first hand Edric Storm is a valuable resource to have. 

[Dorian Martell's son]

1 hour ago, Canon Claude said:

The second time seems a bit unnecessary. Surely there was another way to resolve the siege of Storm’s End? 

How exactly do you suggest you get the castellan out of an impregnable castle to challenge him in single combat? Storm's end was provisioned and guarded. If the entire reach Army couldn't get them out while they were starving to death, what makes you think that a small force from the meager holding of Dragonstone could get them out? 

[Megorova]

I think, that the point of using this second shadow, was to make Davos see, that Melisandre is really a sorceress, and that she can actually use magic, and that what she's saying about Lord of Light is true. Prior that he thought, that she was just a fraud. But after witnessing that, he knew, that her power is real. Could be that, him knowing, that Melisandre does have R'hllor's power, will be a game changing knowledge.

[Impbread]

55 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

How exactly do you suggest you get the castellan out of an impregnable castle to challenge him in single combat? Storm's end was provisioned and guarded. If the entire reach Army couldn't get them out while they were starving to death, what makes you think that a small force from the meager holding of Dragonstone could get them out? 

He offered single combat after Renly was dead. So there is that.

[Dorian Martell's son]

4 minutes ago, Impbread said:

He offered single combat after Renly was dead. So there is that.

And that was a chance for Stannis to lose 

 

[Impbread]

Yes but he could have named. A champion. And if the champion dies just do the shadow baby. To the posters point I do not think that this was necessary he could have left a s fraction of his enormous host to continue the siege as well.

[Sigella]

23 minutes ago, Megorova said:

I think, that the point of using this second shadow, was to make Davos see, that Melisandre is really a sorceress, and that she can actually use magic, and that what she's saying about Lord of Light is true. Prior that he thought, that she was just a fraud. But after witnessing that, he knew, that her power is real. Could be that, him knowing, that Melisandre does have R'hllor's power, will be a game changing knowledge.

Maybe more GRRM showing the readers that she's got magic? Before that she was just a pompous pyromaniac who antidoted herself timely (Cressen).

2 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

Surely there was another way to resolve the siege of Storm’s End?

Yes, using a champion could have worked like it did for Dany outside Mereen but... The story is better this way. IMO Mel birthing the shadow/fire-demon-baby in a cave makes a pretty grand scene. I'd take that over some meh duel any day.

Like, we don't really dwell on how much smarter it had been if Dany hadn't gone into the fire when she hatched the dragons because the story is better for it. Sure some dwell on it in terms of "she was super crazy to do it" but not "was there another way to do it".

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

Yes . It got rid of Penrose and it taught Davos an unbeliever the meaning of fear .

[Megorova]

57 minutes ago, Sigella said:

Maybe more GRRM showing the readers that she's got magic? Before that she was just a pompous pyromaniac who antidoted herself timely (Cressen).

Readers already knew, that Mel's power is real, after Renly's death. So the purpose of second shadow-baby was something different. The key to this "mystery" is probably in that chapter. And there's nothing of importance in there. In that chapter Davos found out about reality of Mel's and R'hllor's power; readers found out, that Storm's End is protected by some ancient spells. Maybe people, that met with Stannis in that chapter, were some sort of clue about future or past events. But that's all there was. 

[Lord Lannister]

It always struck me as odd as well. Penrose seemed to imply that if Edric Storm's safety was pledged that he'd yield the castle. This would've seemed the most painless route to take to secure the castle. Winning over a strong lieutenant in the process for Stannis.

[Deepbollywood Motte]

I read or heard somewhere the idea that Penrose wasn't killed by a shadowbaby but by the garrison of Storm's End and that Mel's episode with Davos was just another trick of her (we know she uses tricks with black smoke that make people tremble). A trick to convince Davos of her powers. 

This is really the only time we see Mel with actual powers and I like the idea that this also wasn't real. The only problem is that it would be a really convenient time for the garrison to betray Penrose to let us and Davos think it was actually Mel.

[Arthur Peres]

47 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

It always struck me as odd as well. Penrose seemed to imply that if Edric Storm's safety was pledged that he'd yield the castle. This would've seemed the most painless route to take to secure the castle. Winning over a strong lieutenant in the process for Stannis.

Stannis needed Edric to show that Cersei children were bastards, he couldn't let the Edric go.

But Penrose came with a great offer to resolve the situation by single combat, he even let Stannis choose a champion. The Lords around Stannis all think that Penrose is not a great fighter and that killing him in single combat would be easy and prove they cause just. Easy victory and good propaganda.

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

6 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

From what we see, the shadowbabies have a profound physical effect on Stannis. He ages considerably and becomes very thin. Not necessarily a good idea to have your king physically weaken himself when his cause isn’t secure and his heir is a sickly child.

I won’t pretend like the first shadowbaby wasn’t worth it. Renly’s death was one of the huge turning points for Stannis’ cause. The second time seems a bit unnecessary. Surely there was another way to resolve the siege of Storm’s End? Stannis lived in that castle for years and defended it from the Tyrells as a teenager. He might know a way to take the castle that others wouldn’t know. Or maybe someone inside the castle could have been persuaded to murder Penrose (it’s not like Penrose was in a good position what with Renly dead). Or, why not just fight Penrose? Stannis is an experienced man of war and has an age and size advantage against Penrose. Killing him would end the siege.

Stannis didn't know all of the facts.  He might have chosen another way if he had known the cost to him, the man who no longer has a shadow.  

[The Drunkard]

The problem is that at this stage Stannis is proceeding based on what Melisandre says is a necessity. He isn't the sceptic that he is in ASOS onwards, as all of her promises thus far have come true and she's gained him the cream of the Reach and Stormlands chivalry with their infantry likely to follow. She has apparently told Stannis that they "must" have Edric before they can leave, and he believes her. Using her magic is the only thing that guarantees a swift victory. \

 

 

[GallowsKnight]

I think Davos had the right of it. That single combat was a chance for Penrose to surrender/die honourably in an impossible situation. Stannis should have taken him up on the offer (and sooner than waiting 2 weeks). He can always use Melissandre if his champion fails.

Because if he can take Storm's End faster he can take Kingslanding before the Lannisters arrive, and then have have an animated shadow assassin up his sleeve for offing Tywin.

[Alexis-something-Rose]

I think the shadow baby was a plot point for Davos to see her power. 

Beyond this, though, I think that we were meant to find out that Storm's End's walls have old magics woven into them. 

The shadows come to dance, the shadows come to stay.

[Canon Claude]

Honestly, I have to give the show credit for compressing the two shadowbabies into one. Davos could have watched her birth the first one if they just needed him to see her magic firsthand. The magic of Storm’s End could have been given through lip service or exposition, it hasn’t mattered at all so far.

[Floki of the Ironborn]

23 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

Honestly, I have to give the show credit for compressing the two shadowbabies into one. Davos could have watched her birth the first one if they just needed him to see her magic firsthand. The magic of Storm’s End could have been given through lip service or exposition, it hasn’t mattered at all so far.

Normally I'd disagree with you by default for putting the show above the books under any circumstance, but in this case, I think you may be right. Stannis and Melisandre went with the most contrived and damaging strategy to get Storm's End. Any other method would have worked out fine, albeit a bit longer or slightly messier if it came down to a duel.