Quick survey (testing a theory): audiobooks vs. printed

[Katerine459]

Title says it all. Diving right in. Please answer honestly; I'd like to test a theory:

Q #1: Did you read the books, or listen to them? (or, put another way, did you read the books with your eyes, or with your ears?)

Q #2: What do you think of Tyrion? As a person, that is... what do you think of his character? And, on a related note, what do you think of Shae and what happened to her?

[Edit] Q #3: Who's worse, Umbridge or Voldemort?

[kissdbyfire]

1. Both, but lately I've been listening a lot more than reading. 

2. Has some good stuff but mostly I just find him a bit boring. 

 

[Lucius Lovejoy]

1.  Reading.  I never listen to books - I would find myself getting distracted and having to rewind over and over and over.  Plus when important mildly confusing stuff happens it is great to re-read right in the moment at my own pace.

2.  Judging not as a reader who likes his pre-ADWD POV chapters because of the plot movement and dialouge, but as an in-universe person who was always around, I would dislike Tyrion.  Pity him, yes, but he is not nearly as clever as he thinks he is and he seems just as selfish, lustful, entitled, and power hungry as Cersei.  He is empathetic, which is a significant difference from Cersei, so he is not all bad, but there is more to not like than like.  As for Shae, I found her morally reprehensible and did not like her either, but she was honest about being a whore and did not try to hide her motivators.  Morally reprehensible or not, Tyrion murdering her was a tragic crime she in no way at all "deserved" or "had coming to her."  Just a terrible thing.

[Lord Lannister]

I listened to the audiobooks earlier this year and I found the experience rewarding. It's a new angle on an old story you might say and given I do 90% of my listening at work, I do prefer to do stuff I've already read so if I'm focusing on something else, I really don't care if I missed a few min.

[Clegane'sPup]

8 hours ago, Katerine459 said:

Title says it all. Diving right in. Please answer honestly; I'd like to test a theory:

Test a theory? Am I a lab rat to be baited and switched? Argh.

8 hours ago, Katerine459 said:

Q #1: Did you read the books, or listen to them? (or, put another way, did you read the books with your eyes, or with your ears?)

I heard martin do an interview on NPR about the upcoming HBO show. I thought I may like his story.  Went to the library. Checked out and read Game of Thrones.  Then I bought the paperback box set. Guess that means I read the 4800+with my eyeballs.

I got a bit annoyed with the conclusion of DwD, Asked google a question and ended up at this site.

8 hours ago, Katerine459 said:

Q #2: What do you think of Tyrion? As a person, that is... what do you think of his character? And, on a related note, what do you think of Shae and what happened to her?

I think Tyrion is an interesting character/personality. Shae, had her craft and trade. She made her decisions.

8 hours ago, Katerine459 said:

[Edit] Q #3: Who's worse, Umbridge or Voldemort?

Harry Potter

[Katerine459]

Finally getting around to answering my own questions. Thanks for the responses so far; please keep them coming!

9 hours ago, Katerine459 said:

Q #1: Did you read the books, or listen to them? (or, put another way, did you read the books with your eyes, or with your ears?)

I initially read the books (with my eyes), on Kindle. When it came time to reread this year, I decided to switch to audiobooks, because at the rate I read, it would take months to reread the entire series, and at least with audio, I could do other things as well.

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Q #2: What do you think of Tyrion? As a person, that is... what do you think of his character? And, on a related note, what do you think of Shae and what happened to her?

 

My favorites shift as the books go on, but Tyrion was always up there for me. He's not as saintly as he's portrayed in the show, of course, but he's hardly the monster that some on here say he is. I often feel for him. He's been the subject of abuse most of his life, mostly for things he couldn't help (killing his mother, his looks...), and had a lot of pressures on his shoulders.

Shae, OTOH... prior to Tyrion's trial, I mostly found her irritating, just because. I never faulted her for being what she was, but then when she lied about Tyrion and Sansa, often using private things that only she and Tyrion knew... to me, what she did was nothing short of vicious, especially where Sansa was concerned, and that was unforgivable. It's the same reason I hated the Lannisters and Freys for lying about the Starks, and hated the slavers for their lies about Dany. Slander (knowing slander, that is) just... bothers me, a lot, on a visceral level.

What prompted this survey was listening to the audiobooks. The way Tyrion sounds in the audiobooks is nothing like what he sounds like in my mind, when I read the books. There's a hardness and a viciousness in his voice, when on the page, he mainly comes across as a beleaguered, abused person who uses wit as a defense mechanism, and is a natural profiler by necessity.

(then again, there are many, many things in the audiobooks that sound nothing like how I read them. Which is to be expected, I guess, but it is aggravating).

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[Edit] Q #3: Who's worse, Umbridge or Voldemort? 

Believe it or not, this is actually a halfway serious question. Hard to explain why... it's partly instinctual. But I have a theory that how people feel about Tyrion is tied to whether they read the books or listened to them, and it's also tangentially related to what evokes a visceral reaction in people. At least, that's the theory.

Speaking for myself... Voldemort was ok. I mean, he was the villain, sure, but Umbridge... Umbridge needed to die a long, slow, painful death. Well, not really... it would actually be more satisfying to see her stripped of all power, just as she thinks she can get away with what she's doing. People seem to focus on the quill when thinking about her. I don't know why. That's actually among the least of her evils. Far worse was her delight in causing pain and misery in people who'd never done anything to her.

[SFDanny]

9 hours ago, Katerine459 said:

Q #1: Did you read the books, or listen to them? (or, put another way, did you read the books with your eyes, or with your ears?)

Started by reading the books through, but I've also listened to all the audiobooks while driving. Lately, I read AND listen at the same time. A method I highly recommend.

9 hours ago, Katerine459 said:

Q #2: What do you think of Tyrion? As a person, that is... what do you think of his character? And, on a related note, what do you think of Shae and what happened to her?

Tyrion is one of the most complex characters Martin has created. Truly "gray" instead of just good or evil. Brilliant, but broken.One of the great characters in literature.

Shae is, in the end, what the reader and Tyrion fear she is - all about her own personal gain. To the point of willing to lie under oath and put Tyrion's head on the block as a result. Tyrion's murder of her is still wrong on so many levels, but the reader is challenged to see both the pain of Tyrion and the needs of Shae in understanding the tragic nature of the killing for both. Of course, death is the final tragedy for Shae, but Tyrion's pain screams out to the reader as well.

10 hours ago, Katerine459 said:

[Edit] Q #3: Who's worse, Umbridge or Voldemort?

A Hobson's choice, or perhaps a choice between eviler and evilest? I've got to go with Voldemort.

[Aline de Gavrillac]

10 hours ago, Katerine459 said:

Title says it all. Diving right in. Please answer honestly; I'd like to test a theory:

Q #1: Did you read the books, or listen to them? (or, put another way, did you read the books with your eyes, or with your ears?)

Q #2: What do you think of Tyrion? As a person, that is... what do you think of his character? And, on a related note, what do you think of Shae and what happened to her?

[Edit] Q #3: Who's worse, Umbridge or Voldemort?

1:  I read the books first.  Watched the show and gave up on the show.  Lastly, I bought and listened to the audio books starring Roy Dotrice.  I love the way he says Petire Baelish!  Then I read the extra materials like D&E, World, and the novellas.

2:  Tyrion is an asshole but he has a lot of good qualities.  Just read his chapters in Game and he was a total ass to the guys at the wall.  He is much better than Jaime and Cersei though.  

[zandru]

1. First, I read the books. After literally years of hearing GRRM read at the local Con, I happened upon a used paperback of Game of Thrones while buying another book, picked it up, and ended up going for the full set at Costco. After I'd read them all (1-5), I received the complete audiobook set from my son, so now I can "re-read" while still doing useful work, like deadheading roses, etc.

2. Tyrion's life was on an uphill trend and he was doing a good job of it until the Battle on the Blackwater. He barely survived, only to find himself marginalized and ignored, given no credit for everything he had done, even demonized. This is where he started becoming a lot less "loveable", although in spite of all this, he never took it out on little Sansa, instead bending over backwards to accommodate her, even at the cost of his own reputation. But, post-Tywin, his drinking his way across Essos and pathetic attempts at whoring really lost me. I wasn't able to sympathize until Jorah Mormont took him prisoner. Jorah went from a somewhat romantic figure (when he was with Daenerys) to a total cunt in the way he treated Tyrion. Tyrion is coming back to his potential. He's taken Penny under his wing, even though he doesn't much like her, and has been Jorah's protector as well, in spite of what Mormont did to him. Tyrion is The Man. Or Halfman. Whatever.

3. I'd say Umbridge is worse, knowing little about her background and what made her this way. We can see what little Tom Riddle went through in his early life that poisoned him and set him on the wrong path. Umbridge, as far as readers know, is just a bullying toady.

[AmberEmpress]

1. I read all of the books but a Storm of Swords - which I listened to as an audiobook

2. As entertaining as Tyrion is he is undoubtedly becoming somewhat of an antagonist. His arch seems to be the opposite of Jaime's. For example when he admitted to himself that having Tommen raped if Cersei ignored his orders wasn't a bluff and his murder of Shae and Tywin. His chapters are still some of the best to read but he's definitely one of the darker POV characters.

[Leonardo]

1. Both but I read them first if it's a new book/story. However overrall I spend much more time listening.

 

2. Gotta love Tyrion as hes one of the few characters who can actually take and give a joke. I don't empathize with him as much, but given how horrible 90% of the nobility in Westeros is, hes still one of the "good" ones comparatively. I like his brooding darkness of ADWD and his Bukowski musings and wanderings. Shae was paying for Tywin and Tyrion's own sins to be sure.

 

9 minutes ago, AmberEmpress said:

 For example when he admitted to himself that having Tommen raped if Cersei ignored his orders wasn't a bluff

Alright I need a quote for this one haha

[AmberEmpress]

23 minutes ago, Leonardo said:

Alright I need a quote for this one haha

 

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"He pushed himself to his feet. "Keep her then, but keep her safe. If these animals think they can use her . . . well, sweet sister, let me point out that a scale tips two ways." His tone was calm, flat, uncaring; he'd reached for his father's voice, and found it. "Whatever happens to her happens to Tommen as well, and that includes the beatings and rapes." If she thinks me such a monster, I'll play the part for her." - ACOK, Tyrion XII

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"She was learning to read, Tyrion thought, absurdly. Across his face the scar stretched tight, and for a moment it felt as though his head would burst with rage. Alayaya was a whore, true enough, but a sweeter, braver, more innocent girl he had seldom met. Tyrion had never touched her; she had been no more than a veil, to hide Shae. In his carelessness, he had never thought what the role might cost her. "I promised my sister I would treat Tommen as she treated Alayaya," he remembered aloud. He felt as though he might retch. "How can I scourge an eight-year-old boy?" But if I don't, Cersei wins." - ASOS, Tyrion I

 

[Leonardo]

Except it's in his power to do it and he never does, it was clearly a bluff and she calls him on it. He can't touch Tommen, hes heir to the throne, and by all evidence Tyrion loves and protects Tommen more than Cersei ever does.

[AmberEmpress]

1 minute ago, Leonardo said:

Except it's in his power to do it and he never does, it was clearly a bluff and she calls him on it. He can't touch Tommen, hes heir to the throne, and by all evidence Tyrion loves and protects Tommen more than Cersei ever does.

He doesn't do it because Cersei obeys him.

[Leonardo]

Tyrion never would have done that to Tommen, as readers we see that, so your point is unfounded.

[AmberEmpress]

10 minutes ago, Leonardo said:

Tyrion never would have done that to Tommen, as readers we see that, so your point is unfounded.

How do you explain "But if I don't, Cersei wins."?

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""You don't have Tommen," Bronn said bluntly. "Once she learned that Ironhand was dead, the queen sent the Kettleblacks after him, and no one at Rosby had the balls to say them nay."

Another blow; yet a relief as well, he must admit it. He was fond of Tommen." - ASOS, Tyrion I

 

1

It is heavily suggested that Tyrion would have given those orders, even though he didn't want to in order to keep Cersei under this thumb.

[Lucius Lovejoy]

Tyrion pre-Tywin/Shae-murder would NEVER harm Tommen to rebuke Cersei but probably wouldn't have as much reservation about having a Kettleback or Lancel harmed because they are adults he doesn't like.  Again, I pity him and like that he has an empathetic streak for cripples, bastards, and broken things, and like his sense of humor, but ultimately his unfounded sense of intellectual superiority, entitelment, selfishness, lustfulness, and thirst for power make him pretty unlikable in universe (though he is fun to read pre-ADWD).

[Katerine459]

1 hour ago, AmberEmpress said:

"She was learning to read, Tyrion thought, absurdly. Across his face the scar stretched tight, and for a moment it felt as though his head would burst with rage. Alayaya was a whore, true enough, but a sweeter, braver, more innocent girl he had seldom met. Tyrion had never touched her; she had been no more than a veil, to hide Shae. In his carelessness, he had never thought what the role might cost her. "I promised my sister I would treat Tommen as she treated Alayaya," he remembered aloud. He felt as though he might retch. "How can I scourge an eight-year-old boy?" But if I don't, Cersei wins." - ASOS, Tyrion I

This isn't Tyrion saying that his threat to Tommen wasn't a bluff. It's Tyrion internally debating whether he can bring himself to follow through if Cersei were to call his bluff. He never arrives at a conclusion. (Also, just a nitpick, but Cersei had Alayaya scourged (i.e. whipped), not raped).

[Azarial]

On 5/29/2018 at 10:49 AM, Katerine459 said:

Title says it all. Diving right in. Please answer honestly; I'd like to test a theory:

Q #1: Did you read the books, or listen to them? (or, put another way, did you read the books with your eyes, or with your ears?)

I read it with my eyes. Never listened to any book, but can see how it would be nice for when doing brainless tasks that make reading difficult.

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Q #2: What do you think of Tyrion? As a person, that is... what do you think of his character? And, on a related note, what do you think of Shae and what happened to her?

Depends. When dealing with people who he sees as attacking the weak he can be vicious. But, when he sees someone who needs help, he will help if he can. He is sometimes judgy but not always, but this is true of anyone, and is realistic as the things he is like that for are things he hates in himself. I'd say he is one of the most complex characters as a result. 

Shae, I can't relate to her. If someone, even someone as uggly as him, cared for me in a harsh world like that the way he cared for her (food, shelter, clothes, body guards) She should have cared for his safety in return and said they never talk when I'm around or something (she doesn't need to love him or anything, just realize what he did for her). But to lie, then sleep with his dad because he has more power and money. Just no. I don't think it deserves a death sentence, but she was still awful. And Tyrion reacted in the moment, a crime of passion. If he'd known about them before and had time to calm down and think about her vulnerable position with him being sentenced to die, she'd still be alive. He's a cynic not a cold blooded killer.

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[Edit] Q #3: Who's worse, Umbridge or Voldemort?

Umbridge 100% She took pleasure in torturing innocent people, while pretending to be good. Voldemort's beliefs and Tywin style tactics are vile, but at least he owned it. People knew who he was and what to expect.

[fire&blood]

On ‎5‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 9:49 AM, Katerine459 said:

Title says it all. Diving right in. Please answer honestly; I'd like to test a theory:

Q #1: Did you read the books, or listen to them? (or, put another way, did you read the books with your eyes, or with your ears?)

Q #2: What do you think of Tyrion? As a person, that is... what do you think of his character? And, on a related note, what do you think of Shae and what happened to her?

[Edit] Q #3: Who's worse, Umbridge or Voldemort?

1) I read the books multiple times and I've listened to the audiobooks twice (the days before I took the subway and had to drive 2 hours a day in L.A.) but TBH Roy Dotrice would drive me crazy with the way he pronounced some of the names. It's Melisandre not Melisande. and Eyrie isn't Eye-rie. He also annoyed me with the way he read women. I never understood why they didn't hire a female voice for those chapters. The way Brienne sounded would make me ape shit.

2) Oh Tyrion...this is a difficult question. I do enjoy his chapters and his character. More so on the show, they made him less complex and more loveable. But ultimately, he is a very complicated character. I sympathize with him for having to grow up a dwarf, hated by everyone but Jaime, especially for the death of Joanna (as if he could control that), and the Tysha incident. However, in ADWD you start to see him losing himself.  I love him for how he helped Bran, took care of Sansa, how he bonded with Jon and confronted Tywin about the Red Wedding and what was done to Robb and Cat (a bit of a Stark loyalist here so lol ya). But, he did turn that singer into stew and murdered Shae and Tywin (no love lost there, but he was a badass).  He is an entitled ass at times, he is smart but a bit arrogant, but I see his usefulness and could see him as a good Hand.

Shae makes me smh. I understand that she's a whore and it was obvious that she didn't love Tyrion. I'm just not sure if she was always one of Tywin's or she turned over after Tyrion's arrest. But the fact that she was taken care of by Tyrion in such a crap world and provided zero loyalty in return, makes me lose all sympathy. Should she have been murdered? No.

3) Now to Harry Potter....Umbridge made me want to scream at each page turn in Order of the Phoenix. She was just a bully. A pink colored bully who truly hated kids and enjoyed watching them suffer. Voldemort on the other hand was just pure evil. We knew what we were getting with him, but at least we have some backstory to understand him.  Dolores, we know nothing about, so I don't understand why she is that way.