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Why Elmar?


Kandrax

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Why did Walder choose Elmar instead of Waltyr who is same age as Arya? I remember that someone had posted a teory that almost every time a third son is homosexual. Waltyr is third son from seventh wife. Could that be reason? Or maybe is he too ugly?

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10 hours ago, Kandrax said:

a theory that almost every time a third son is homosexual. Waltyr is third son from seventh wife. Could that be reason?

I knew it! Benjen joined NW because Yoren told him about the men in uniforms!

Tygett is also a third son though, so was Tytos with his common woman.

Theon and Victarion also.

In fact I can name many a third son   clearly interested in women but only 3 who were interested in men.

As to "why Elmar?", he was around Arya's age and was a son, not a grandson. He was also the last in line to inherit among male Freys so marrying her to a girl who is not only one of only two daughters of a lord paramaount but also one of only two granddaughters of anothet lord paramount who also happens to be the liege who looked down on Walder's family is a great lesson in humility.

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1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

I knew it! Benjen joined NW because Yoren told him about the men in uniforms!

Tygett is also a third son though, so was Tytos with his common woman.

Theon and Victarion also.

In fact I can name many a third son   clearly interested in women but only 3 who were interested in men.

As to "why Elmar?", he was around Arya's age and was a son, not a grandson. He was also the last in line to inherit among male Freys so marrying her to a girl who is not only one of only two daughters of a lord paramaount but also one of only two granddaughters of anothet lord paramount who also happens to be the liege who looked down on Walder's family is a great lesson in humility.

Good answer.  I mean your last paragraph.  The Freys have riches, strong castles, and good land.  What they want to complete Walder's masterpiece painting is prestige and respect among their peers.  Note how they name their sons dragon and lion names.  Rhaegar Frey, Aegon Frey, Cersei Frey.  The Freys have it all except social respect of the oldest houses of nobility.  They are considered a young house and Walder is touchy about his honor.  Elmar marrying well is one piece to make the Freys higher in the social ranks.  And it is actually a great match for a daughter in Arya's position.  It's not disproportionate in any way.  Arya should feel lucky.

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1 hour ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

And it is actually a great match for a daughter in Arya's position.  It's not disproportionate in any way.  Arya should feel lucky.

Not really.  The youngest (22nd!!) son of a vassal house is a bit low ranking for a princess (as the sister of a declared King) or daughter of a Great House (which the Starks are).  Under normal circumstances, she would get a lord or heir, or maybe the younger son of another great House, which the Freys, for all their pretensions, are not.  If Robb hadn't been desperate for the crossing, it never would have been considered.

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3 minutes ago, Nevets said:

Not really.  The youngest (22nd!!) son of a vassal house is a bit low ranking for a princess (as the sister of a declared King) or daughter of a Great House (which the Starks are).  Under normal circumstances, she would get a lord or heir, or maybe the younger son of another great House, which the Freys, for all their pretensions, are not.  If Robb hadn't been desperate for the crossing, it never would have been considered.

Arya is not a princess.  Not at any point in time was she ever a princess.  She was the sister of a rebel hoping to become king.  He failed and therefore did not attain the status of king.  

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3 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

As to "why Elmar?", he was around Arya's age and was a son, not a grandson. 

Waltyr is also son and is same age as Arya, yet Walder decided to not bethroth Arya to him.

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6 hours ago, Kandrax said:

Waltyr is also son and is same age as Arya, yet Walder decided to not bethroth Arya to him.

Read the last part. Elmar was last in line so Walder chose him specifically. 

Walder uses his sons effectively in diplomacy. When Robb was at his door with an army he sends out for parlaying Stevron, a polite guy and his heir. When he sends his sons to Riverrun to treat with Robb he sends Ser Walder Rivers and Lame Lothar.

He could very well have arranged a single but much older son if there's any or a grandson around Arya's age but either will be higher in the succession and therefore won't be in the bottom of the line.

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5 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Read the last part. Elmar was last in line so Walder chose him specifically. 

Walder uses his sons effectively in diplomacy. When Robb was at his door with an army he sends out for parlaying Stevron, a polite guy and his heir. When he sends his sons to Riverrun to treat with Robb he sends Ser Walder Rivers and Lame Lothar.

He could very well have arranged a single but much older son if there's any or a grandson around Arya's age but either will be higher in the succession and therefore won't be in the bottom of the line.

Now, i understand. He chose Elmar, just to humilate Robb.

Strangely, he didn't choose Shirei instead of Roslyn.

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10 minutes ago, Kandrax said:

Now, i understand. He chose Elmar, just to humilate Robb.

Strangely, he didn't choose Shirei instead of Roslyn.

Yes and through him also the Tullys, especially Hoster who rejected a Frey bride for Edmure. It may have been hard to understand, my english isn't what it used to be.

He never chose Roslin though, not for Robb. Robb got the pick of the dungeons... I mean Freys.

Shirei is 8 or something, unfit at the time to bear Walder grandchildren with Tully name (or Stark).

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