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U.S. Politics: He's an Idiot, Plain and Simple


Martell Spy

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10 hours ago, Altherion said:

It's one thing to impose such policies during the 1950s and quite another to do so now. The 1950s and immediately preceding post-war years were a time of rapid economic growth (see, for example, the 100 Years of U.S. Consumer Spending study) and I don't just mean for the people at the top (which is what that phrase has come to mean today), but for everyone. When your life is continuously getting better and it seems that your society is well on its way towards the United Federation of Planets (that series is from the 1960s, but there were similar utopias earlier), it's not much of a risk to impose equality by fiat -- some people might be angry, but not nearly enough to the extent that they'd do anything about it.

Yes, one might conclude that... If one had zero knowledge of American history.

People were not angry enough to do anything against the enforcement of equality by law in the fifties? Seriously?

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2 minutes ago, Rippounet said:

Yes, one might conclude that... If one had zero knowledge of American history.

People were not angry enough to do anything against the enforcement of equality by law in the fifties? Seriously?

Well, you have to admit that they were pretty tolerant on Happy Days.

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17 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I think where the ambiguity of art should come in is if it’s unique. That’s why I brought up a rainbow cake. If that’s something the artist would normally not make, then yes, it’s art because it’s unique expression. But if the gay couple just wants a cake the baker would otherwise make for anyone else, then the baker should have to make it for them, even if they know it’s for a wedding they’re opposed to.

Exactly.  When the cake is Generic... it's part of public accommodation.  When the cake is special... then it gets more complicated.  That said, when was the last time you saw a wedding cake with piped frosting writing on it?

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Trump Sidelines Bolton to Keep Peace With North Korea

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/06/trump-sidelines-bolton-to-keep-peace-pompeo-with-north-korea-summit.html

Quote

As President Donald Trump huddled in the Oval Office on Friday with Kim Jong Un’s right-hand man, he was accompanied by only one other US official: Secretary of State Mike Pompeo. Absent was the administration’s most vocal North Korea hawk, national security adviser John Bolton…Pompeo told Trump it would be “counterproductive” to allow Bolton to attend the Oval Office meeting with visiting North Korean official Kim Yong Chol, two people familiar with the matter said, citing an escalating feud between the top diplomat and Bolton.

 

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2 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Does carpentry constituted "art"? 

Like you said, it can. But it's funny you question artistry of carpentry while pointing out the artistry of baking. Which was exactly the point I was making, and why I think this is sort of a slippery slope thing.

However should a carpenter be allowed to turn down work on the house of a gay couple, because they are gay? If you are ok with the baker turning them down, then you should also be ok with carpenter doing the same. At some point if you have to draw a line. Be it at the tailor making the suits (or tux) for the wedding, or the florist for the decoration. Because on some level "artistry" is involved.

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12 minutes ago, Notone said:

Like you said, it can. But it's funny you question artistry of carpentry while pointing out the artistry of baking. Which was exactly the point I was making, and why I think this is sort of a slippery slope thing.

However should a carpenter be allowed to turn down work on the house of a gay couple, because they are gay? If you are ok with the baker turning them down, then you should also be ok with carpenter doing the same. At some point if you have to draw a line. Be it at the tailor making the suits (or tux) for the wedding, or the florist for the decoration. Because on some level "artistry" is involved.

Let me be clear.  I'm not okay with it.  But does that mean that a carpenter has to work for people the carpenter doesn't want to work for?  Can a Carpenter refuse to accept a contract for any or no reason, or, does a carpenter have an obligation to accept all comers?

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1 minute ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Let me be clear.  I'm not okay with it.  But does that mean that a carpenter has to work for people the carpenter doesn't want to work for?  Can a Carpenter refuse to accept a contract for any or no reason, or, does a carpenter have an obligation to accept all comers?

First things first. Apologies on the being ok with part, I didn't mean to paint you a homophobe, it was just lazily/carelessly worded on my part. What I meant is you are on the legal side of their argument.

That's exactly the question. Usually I assume the carpenter would come up with a better excuse like no time, too many jobs or something. On a general note, of course every business can do business as they please. However anti-discrimination laws are there for specific reasons. I mean should a carpenter be allowed to turn a black customer. Or should the baker allowed to turn away mix raced couples. If there are other businesses in town that provide the same services, fine. Boycott them and make it public why. Public outrage and boycotts are usually a pretty good way to bring businesses to heel. If the businesses have a monopoly (likesay only wedding cake manufacturer or carpenter in town), then it gets tricky. Are you withholding an essential service of some sort?

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