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UK Politics: Royal Weddings and Referendums


Yukle

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I was reading through the last thread and realised my posts were failing because the thread is too long and now locked!

To respond to earlier comments, though, regarding the Irish referendum and what it may mean for Northern Ireland:

I wonder a little if the government is concerned about the fragmentation of the UK. Maybe not now, but within 10 or 20 years. To have Northern Ireland and the Republic follow suite on social matters reminds the average NI resident of the fact they have more in common with their southern neighbours than they'd remembered. Similarly, as Brexit is finally coming to pass, along with whatever outcomes it brings, the Scots may decide that there isn't any point staying around. Again, not now, but 10 or 20 years from now.

Playing the long-game, maybe the Conservatives in power now want to see off a potential problem for its next generation: will the UK survive as a whole? Scotland's appetite for independence has waned for the moment, but that doesn't mean it's forever.

Suppose the NI wants a similar change to their abortion laws as the Republic just did. If the UK government resists long enough, maybe it will stir up the dormant calls for independence among its constituent states. If a pattern emerges of one culture moving one way while the UK government bends the other, perhaps each of the United Kingdoms will wonder what they're in it for, and whether it's worth staying.

It's just a thought.

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38 minutes ago, Hereward said:

Why would the UK government resist if Norn Iron wanted to legalise abortion? Abortion is already legal in the rest of the UK. 

Well the coalition partner called the DUP or whatever they're called seem pretty hardcore against it.

And I hardly think that the UK government's track record of is consistent with the actual wishes of its people. They seem pretty good at disappointment. :P

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8 hours ago, Yukle said:

Well the coalition partner called the DUP or whatever they're called seem pretty hardcore against it.

And I hardly think that the UK government's track record of is consistent with the actual wishes of its people. They seem pretty good at disappointment. :P

As mentioned in the previous thread, while there is overwhelming support for a liberalisation of abortion laws in Northern Ireland, the argument of when it should be allowed and under what circumstances is far less settled. There certainly isn't any danger of it becoming an issue over which Northern Ireland might leave the UK. It does leave the Northern Irish parties in an awkward situation where both the rest of the UK (which some of them support) and the RoI (which the rest of them support) have both gone for more liberal abortion laws, leaving them looking a bit out of touch, at least as this one issue goes.

The long-term breakup of the UK may be possible, but given that Scotland just had a referendum in which independence was defeated, and the appetite for a fresh referendum seems lukewarm, it doesn't appear imminent. If Brexit is a catastrophe, we might see both Northern Ireland and Scotland revisiting their options.

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2 hours ago, Werthead said:

There certainly isn't any danger of it becoming an issue over which Northern Ireland might leave the UK.

Oh yeah, on that I agree. I just meant that, over time, there may become an increasing sentiment of disparity between England and other UK states.

I don't think it's more likely than not, I was just musing.

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20 minutes ago, Maltaran said:

Can someone edit the title to say referenda instead of referendums? The grammar purist in my soul is unable to ignore this

Oooooh, time for a clash of pedants! :fencing:

I would argue that it is referendums, because there have been separate votes, each one on a single issue. Referenda would be if there were several ballot issues being voted upon at the same time, wouldn't it?

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22 hours ago, Yukle said:

Suppose the NI wants a similar change to their abortion laws as the Republic just did. If the UK government resists long enough, maybe it will stir up the dormant calls for independence among its constituent states. If a pattern emerges of one culture moving one way while the UK government bends the other, perhaps each of the United Kingdoms will wonder what they're in it for, and whether it's worth staying.

It's just a thought.

Given that the biggest obstacle to a change in the abortion laws is that the DUP are the largest party in Northern Ireland, I'm not sure I see how Northern Ireland taking more control would necessarily help. If the Northern Ireland Assembly does take control again from Wesminster it would have to be a DUP-lead government.

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41 minutes ago, Yukle said:

Oooooh, time for a clash of pedants! :fencing:

I would argue that it is referendums, because there have been separate votes, each one on a single issue. Referenda would be if there were several ballot issues being voted upon at the same time, wouldn't it?

Technically I don't believe "referenda" is correct under any circumstances, as it's not a Latin word, so "referendums" is the correct usage. However, "referenda" has fallen into colloquial use, so you can do what you like with it.

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8 minutes ago, Stannis Eats No Peaches said:

...no?

Appeal to Google! This says that opinion is divided. :P  But only because referenda has entered common usage, not because it was correct to start with.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/07/why-the-plural-of-referendum-must-be-referendums/

How can we decide? The OED says referendum is either from ‘classical Latin referendum, gerund or neuter gerundive of referre’. It doesn’t insist. Its 1989 edition had said: ‘referendums is logically preferable as a modern plural form meaning “ballots on one issue” (as a Latin gerund referendum has no plural); the Latin plural gerundive referenda, meaning “things to be referred”, necessarily connotes a plurality of issues’. It thought referendums would prevail. A revision in 2009 found usage ‘fairly evenly divided’. It judged the appeal to plurality of issues ‘unlikely to affect actual usage’. More’s the pity. Gerund or gerundive, the plural in English must be referendums. 

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54 minutes ago, Chaircat Meow said:

I say f*ck latin.

The language has my full respect but referendum is an English word now, and it should be pluralised in an English way. 

I agree with the argument for accepting languages as they change.  People who pick apart spellingus and grammarae, especially in situations where the meaning is clear despiteth the techinkal and most speciale error, remaineth precisely clear:

they are fucking pedants

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16 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

I agree with the argument for accepting languages as they change.  People who pick apart spellingus and grammarae, especially in situations where the meaning is clear despiteth the techinkal and most speciale error, remaineth precisely clear:

they are fucking pedants

:tantrum:

I demand the right to be an uptight cow about this! :smug:

:P 

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Maybe this is why the country is going to the dogs, maybe our MP's sit around talking shite about language all day instead of doing their real job.

Slightly political, Lush Cosmetics getting a boat load of stick, for a frankly bizarre campaign against historic undercover police operations, i say this not in my capacity as a police officer but as a non crazy person. 

Everyone and their dog knows it was shady as fuck occasionally, but why are Lush getting involved at all, why in such an openly hostile way, and why now, when it happened fucking years ago?

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2 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

Maybe this is why the country is going to the dogs, maybe our MP's sit around talking shite about language all day instead of doing their real job.

Slightly political, Lush Cosmetics getting a boat load of stick, for a frankly bizarre campaign against historic undercover police operations, i say this not in my capacity as a police officer but as a non crazy person. 

Everyone and their dog knows it was shady as fuck occasionally, but why are Lush getting involved at all, why in such an openly hostile way, and why now, when it happened fucking years ago?

I can actually see JRM pondering on sleepless nights over that. Well, that and whether Brexit is a good second name for his tenth son, or whether Brexita is a girls name. Those are important thoughts you have, when you are undecided whether you want to read the bellum gallicum again to look for grammatical errors.

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7 minutes ago, Notone said:

I can actually see JRM pondering on sleepless nights over that. Well, that and whether Brexit is a good second name for his tenth son, or whether Brexita is a girls name. Those are important thoughts you have, when you are undecided whether you want to read the bellum gallicum again to look for grammatical errors.

I thought the rule for changing a boys name to a girls name was to add either ella or ina to the end!

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Just now, BigFatCoward said:

I thought the rule for changing a boys name to a girls name was to add either ella or ina to the end!

I stand corrected, then he must be torn between Brexella and Brexetina. That must be really hard for poor JRM.

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