Let’s get some things off our chests

[One-eyed Misbehavin]

Here are some point blank opinions that may or may go against the forum majority 

1. I think Arya is one of the most self-aware characters in all the books. It’s her greatest strength 

2. Jon’s chapters are not boring. I see people calling him dull but he’s still very humble and the things unfolding around him are friggin awesome

3. Dany isn’t close to “mad queen” status. You could argue she’s shown actions that point that way but for a monarch with the only WMD on a planet.... not that bad 

4. If Stannis doesn’t live long enough to battle the Others then GRRM messes up.... yes I went there.

5. The LF Vale plot is trying too hard.... LF is too lucky there’s no way to cover that 

 

 

 

[Lucius Lovejoy]

1 hour ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said:

Here are some point blank opinions that may or may go against the forum majority 

1. I think Arya is one of the most self-aware characters in all the books. It’s her greatest strength 

Disagree.  But not in a mood to talk about Arya.

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2. Jon’s chapters are not boring. I see people calling him dull but he’s still very humble and the things unfolding around him are friggin awesome

They are neither the best nor the worst.

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3. Dany isn’t close to “mad queen” status. You could argue she’s shown actions that point that way but for a monarch with the only WMD on a planet.... not that bad 

From relatively early on in AGOT I thought Daenerys was being set up to be the human big bad villain but I changed my mind during ADWD.  Some people read her last chapter as her embracing the violent conqueror role but I took the whole of how she was portrayed in the book to mean that she was fully empathetic to struggling people and wanting to improve their lives in Essos over satisfying her own desire to go to Westeros.  Thus, I no longer see her going mad queen (but would love to ser her go mad queen because she would be a terrific villain).

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4. If Stannis doesn’t live long enough to battle the Others then GRRM messes up.... yes I went there.

Agreed, but I am pretty sure Stannis will live to begin fighting the Others so I'm not terribly concerned.

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5. The LF Vale plot is trying too hard.... LF is too lucky there’s no way to cover that 

 

 

 

LF's plans are going to fold like a house of cards soon.  But it will be very interesting to see exactly how!

[Lumosaca]

1. Jaime dying with Cersei would be a boring ending to a great character arc.

2. Euron Greyjoy and Daario Naharis should have been the same character. They complete each other as an experienced captain and as an antagonist to Daenerys.

3. Theon is the best protagonist we have and all of his chapters are awesome since A Clash of Kings. 

4. Stannis will burn Shireen just like he would have burned Edric Storm in Dragonstone if Davos had not interfered. 

5. Prince Aegon is more important than he seems to be. I think he will save Oldtown and be the last person to sit on the Iron Throne. 

 

[Chancho]

Littlefinger indeed left a lot more than he should for chance... i mean how luck he was that nobody Discovered he was inventing suspects and leading people with one thing or another... Varys didn't mind some havoc, thought Varys probably don't want a powerfull littlefinger when he comes back, Varys should tried harder to fuck-expose him.

If Jaime or Brienne die in the start of this new book, i will be super pissed.

[Katerine459]

1 hour ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said:

Here are some point blank opinions that may or may go against the forum majority 

1. I think Arya is one of the most self-aware characters in all the books. It’s her greatest strength 

Yes and no. Depends on how you define "self-aware."  Everybody has little blind spots, and Arya's no exception, but I would agree that she's generally self-aware, when it comes to many things.

 

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2. Jon’s chapters are not boring. I see people calling him dull but he’s still very humble and the things unfolding around him are friggin awesome

 

They're not... particularly boring. They're not Brienne's chapters.

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3. Dany isn’t close to “mad queen” status. You could argue she’s shown actions that point that way but for a monarch with the only WMD on a planet.... not that bad 

 

Speaking as someone who kind of waffles on the idea of Dany going mad... I should probably clarify that I don't see her as a bad guy. I think she's very good, actually, and she's one of my favorite characters. Quaithe has me concerned, though. Specifically, the fact that she showed up in Dany's bedroom when she was actually hundreds of miles away, told her that nobody else would be able to see her, and then gave Dany a prophecy that sounds like it's straight out of a paranoid schizophrenic's hallucination. So... I worry.

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4. If Stannis doesn’t live long enough to battle the Others then GRRM messes up.... yes I went there.

 

Yeah, I can see that. I'm not that invested in Stannis, but I can see where that might be coming from.

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5. The LF Vale plot is trying too hard.... LF is too lucky there’s no way to cover that 

Specifics? LF makes much more sense in the books, where he isn't masterminding this huge scheme, but just taking advantage of opportunities as they come his way.

[Chancho]

(Mad King mode) Oh and i forgot to say AERY's King's Guard are te more PATETHIC motherfuckers ever, all high and mighty on their honour, bunch of suckers that served and helped a mad king that burned people, beat his wife... All of them so indulgents of this sad pathetic excuse of a king...

Crapping on Jaime along the way, like they took pride in that doing their Jobs right means let the deranged pshyco gets what he wants....

Then they got all mushy about a king's guard killing the king, when Whent probably helped to arrange a meeting with the purpose to depose the KING and NO one of the 3 bright chumps were no where to be found when the king, queen, princes need protecting.

The fact that they got to the head of a 16 old boy, who was the only one that have the fucking courage to start questioning how wrong was to go that far... Some nice tutoring by them...

Even Boros Blount is less pathetic, the worst king's guard ever... Didn't protect the king interests when was more needed, the only NOBLE  ACT they would manage to do ever in Aerys servicee was saving poor Queen Rhaela, Princess Elia and the childrens.

Burn them All!

[Katerine459]

If Jon/Tyrion/Dany/etc. is any kind of savior, it will be because of who they are, not because of who their parents are.

Ok, I feel better now.

[Kandrax]

I dislike every "X is actually Y on disguise" theory. Couldn't Quaithe just be Quaithe?

"Kill all Freys" is bullshit. 

Danny was never infertile. After Drogo's death she was supposed to join widows of khals at Vaes Dothrak, which means no sex no pregnancy.

Windblown chapter was unneccesary.

While what Ramsay did Theon is something that none deserve, i think that how Rorge made orphan boy into Biter is worse.

[Angel Eyes]

3 hours ago, Kandrax said:

I dislike every "X is actually Y on disguise" theory. Couldn't Quaithe just be Quaithe?

 

I say that, at least for the Targaryens, fan theories have been relatively popular since we’ve had at least two Targaryens going incognito by changing their hair with Aegon son of Maekar (later Aegon V) going bald while Aegon son of Elia dyes his hair blue. Some fans have taken this to the next level by wildly suggesting that some characters who have altered their hair before the series (this rules out Sansa, who dyed her auburn hair brown, and Jaime who shaved his head) are Targaryens.

[aryagonnakill#2]

11 hours ago, Katerine459 said:

Yes and no. Depends on how you define "self-aware."  Everybody has little blind spots, and Arya's no exception, but I would agree that she's generally self-aware, when it comes to many things.

 

They're not... particularly boring. They're not Brienne's chapters.

Speaking as someone who kind of waffles on the idea of Dany going mad... I should probably clarify that I don't see her as a bad guy. I think she's very good, actually, and she's one of my favorite characters. Quaithe has me concerned, though. Specifically, the fact that she showed up in Dany's bedroom when she was actually hundreds of miles away, told her that nobody else would be able to see her, and then gave Dany a prophecy that sounds like it's straight out of a paranoid schizophrenic's hallucination. So... I worry.

Yeah, I can see that. I'm not that invested in Stannis, but I can see where that might be coming from.

Specifics? LF makes much more sense in the books, where he isn't masterminding this huge scheme, but just taking advantage of opportunities as they come his way.

Quaithe was using a glass candle, that's not Dany going mad.

[Azarial]

13 hours ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said:

Here are some point blank opinions that may or may go against the forum majority 

1. I think Arya is one of the most self-aware characters in all the books. It’s her greatest strength 

I'd say passionate, and that can make her seem self aware. But, she struggles with identity, and goals, her beliefs in right and wrong. And given her age, that is above what is expected, she is the second youngest POV and I do think readers forget how young she is and are to hard on her for some of her judgement calls. So I'd say she is on an arc that will lead to her being one of the most self aware, but isn't there yet. 

13 hours ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said:

2. Jon’s chapters are not boring. I see people calling him dull but he’s still very humble and the things unfolding around him are friggin awesome

I love Jon, and am sick of the Jon hate. Seeing a guy raised in this patriarchal society who treats woman as equal, seeks advice and help from woman almost as often as men (given that he's in an all male org, that's quite an accomplishment.) Seeing someone who can see the flaws in the status structure and bucks it, who views all people as equal and having value, and even seeks advice from those he doesn't like and who don't like him to ensure he's not being biased, even if he still disagrees in the end, makes him great. And he's been in charge for what 6m? and he opened 6 new castles and added 6k Free Folk to the ranks, even if only 1/3 are fighters he still tripled the number of men manning the wall. He undid thousands of years of neglect in months by turning enemies into friends. A few cowards, or him trying to be a good person don't make him boring or a bad leader. 

13 hours ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said:

3. Dany isn’t close to “mad queen” status. You could argue she’s shown actions that point that way but for a monarch with the only WMD on a planet.... not that bad 

Dany is a warrior and aggressive. She has a quick temper and the means to cause serious damage because of that temper. But, her motivations are good, and she is not mad. (I honestly don't think her father was either, read the Arya chapter where she learns about Basilisk blood, and tie that in with how Aery's only became made after Duskendale and tell me something fishy wasn't going on.)

13 hours ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said:

4. If Stannis doesn’t live long enough to battle the Others then GRRM messes up.... yes I went there.

I would love this, especially if him and Jon were working together as Stannis and Jon seem to compliment each others strengths and weaknesses, and their conversations are so funny for anyone who appreciates dry wit, but I don't see it. I think Mance will betray and kill him after the battle for Winterfell.

13 hours ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said:

5. The LF Vale plot is trying too hard.... LF is too lucky there’s no way to cover that 

I think he's being set up this way, so he can take a big fall of Sansa's orchestrating. 

[AmberEmpress]

18 minutes ago, Azarial said:

I love Jon, and am sick of the Jon hate. Seeing a guy raised in this patriarchal society who treats woman as equal, seeks advice and help from woman almost as often as men (given that he's in an all male org, that's quite an accomplishment.) Seeing someone who can see the flaws in the status structure and bucks it, who views all people as equal and having value, and even seeks advice from those he doesn't like and who don't like him to ensure he's not being biased, even if he still disagrees in the end, makes him great. And he's been in charge for what 6m? and he opened 6 new castles and added 6k Free Folk to the ranks, even if only 1/3 are fighters he still tripled the number of men manning the wall. He undid thousands of years of neglect in months by turning enemies into friends. A few cowards, or him trying to be a good person don't make him boring or a bad leader. 

3

THANK YOU! 

Jon is so different from most Westerosi men and has grown so much since the first book. Jon in ADWD is intelligent, emotionally strong and sees the bigger picture better than anyone else. It is through Jon that we get about half our information about the Others and really get to see the culture clash between Southerners, Northerners and the Wildings.

[Lucius Lovejoy]

6 hours ago, Kandrax said:

I dislike every "X is actually Y on disguise" theory. Couldn't Quaithe just be Quaithe?

"Kill all Freys" is bullshit. 

AGREE!!!!!!!

12 hours ago, Katerine459 said:

They're not... particularly boring. They're not Brienne's chapters.

LOL every time I come across a Brienne POV I know it is time to stop reading.  They are some of the very worst.

35 minutes ago, Azarial said:

I would love this, especially if him and Jon were working together as Stannis and Jon seem to compliment each others strengths and weaknesses, and their conversations are so funny for anyone who appreciates dry wit, but I don't see it. I think Mance will betray and kill him after the battle for Winterfell.

I think we are going to get our wish.  I see Stannis and Jon working together fighting the Others in the North while simultaneously Daenerys vs. Aegon vs. Lannisters and/or Euron is going on in the south, and either right before or right after Stannis dies is when Jon will head south to try to convince Daenerys to fight for the north, and she will abandon the battle in the south (and her attempt at conquest) to heroically save Westeros from the Others.

Oh and @Chancho I also think that Mad Aerys' Kingsguard are terrible - I've had many other posts on this before, but these guys are no better than the Kettlebacks.  I don't see Arthur Dayne or Gerold Hightower as heroic at all.

[Azarial]

6 minutes ago, AmberEmpress said:

THANK YOU! 

Jon is so different from most Westerosi men and has grown so much since the first book. Jon in ADWD is intelligent, emotionally strong and sees the bigger picture better than anyone else. It is through Jon that we get about half our information about the Others and really get to see the culture clash between Southerners, Northerners and the Wildings.

Exactly, it's only small minded men (Men we are told are ignorant by four other intelligent men! Quorin, Mormont, Mance and
Stannis) that oppose him.

His Southron fools inner monologue stuff cracks me up. I picture it being similar to how Mance thinks of the Northern Westrosi. I can see some people not loving his chapters as he is a very melancholy guy, but the blind hatred and wishing for him to die that I keep seeing (well, it got me really mad on a different thread yesterday lol)

2 minutes ago, Lucius Lovejoy said:

AGREE!!!!!!!

LOL every time I come across a Brienne POV I know it is time to stop reading.  They are some of the very worst.

I think we are going to get our wish.  I see Stannis and Jon working together fighting the Others in the North while simultaneously Daenerys vs. Aegon vs. Lannisters and/or Euron is going on in the south, and either right before or right after Stannis dies is when Jon will head south to try to convince Daenerys to fight for the north, and she will abandon the battle in the south (and her attempt at conquest) to heroically save Westeros from the Others.

Oh, I hope you're right! I would really love that. It's just the foreshadowing of a Jon Mance battle that has me worried. But, maybe Mance took over Winterfell and Jon and Stannis team up to take it back with a Wildling army that is now loyal to Jon? I could get on board with that.

[Blackfish Tully]

14 hours ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said:

 

5. The LF Vale plot is trying too hard.... LF is too lucky there’s no way to cover that 

 

 

 

can you give some examples of Littlefinger's luck ?

[Alexis-something-Rose]

14 hours ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said:

5. The LF Vale plot is trying too hard.... LF is too lucky there’s no way to cover that 

I actually find all of this so interesting because LF thinks he's awesome at playing the game, but there is a lot of information that he doesn't have with regard to whatever he is plotting using Sansa.

1. He has no idea about Robb's will and how it removes Sansa from the line of succession due to her marriage to Tyrion.

2. He has no idea that Bran and Rickon are alive, something that the northmen seem to be aware of. The mountain clans know about Bran and Manderly (and very possibly his allies inside Winterfell) know that Rickon is alive. 

3. He thinks he has the trump card on the Boltons with Jeyne Poole. He doesn't. Most of the people inside Winterfell seem to be very aware that the girl is not Arya. If he thought he'd be able to pull the rug from under Roose and rouse the north for Sansa, that's not going to happen.

4. Sansa has a shitload of information on him, like how he told Lysa to poison her husband so that they can be together, how he told her to write the letter to Catelyn that the Lannisters had him murdered. 

He built his whole scheme on quicksand. I am looking forward to his end and I hope it's painful.

[The Wolves]

Jaime Lannister is a monster. I think people give him a pass because of his witty dialogue and they hate Cersei more. He’s actually worse than Cersei because he has more agency than she has ever had and is more sane than her. He is the cause of Elia, Rhaenys and Aegon’s deaths. He should in no way be applauded for killing Aerys because any Kingsguard would have done it and Jaime only did it because his life and fellow Westernmens’ were in danger. I hope his death is brutal and meaningless. 

As a Targaryen and Martell fan I have a very petty side that laughs at the death, betrayal and destruction that has befallen the houses that rose up and betrayed House Targaryen. The unnecessary and cruel deaths of Elia, Rhaenys and Aegon will always make me side with the Targs. 

House Baratheon deserves its destruction. They had no business taking the throne. 

I hope the Lannisters goes extinct. 

[Azarial]

10 minutes ago, Widow's Watch said:

I actually find all of this so interesting because LF thinks he's awesome at playing the game, but there is a lot of information that he doesn't have with regard to whatever he is plotting using Sansa.

1. He has no idea about Robb's will and how it removes Sansa from the line of succession due to her marriage to Tyrion.

2. He has no idea that Bran and Rickon are alive, something that the northmen seem to be aware of. The mountain clans know about Bran and Manderly (and very possibly his allies inside Winterfell) know that Rickon is alive. 

3. He thinks he has the trump card on the Boltons with Jeyne Poole. He doesn't. Most of the people inside Winterfell seem to be very aware that the girl is not Arya. If he thought he'd be able to pull the rug from under Roose and rouse the north for Sansa, that's not going to happen.

4. Sansa has a shitload of information on him, like how he told Lysa to poison her husband so that they can be together, how he told her to write the letter to Catelyn that the Lannisters had him murdered. 

He built his whole scheme on quicksand. I am looking forward to his end and I hope it's painful.

Yes, I think he is telling Sansa how brilliant he is, and she is taking notes. He is also assuming he can manipulate Sansa, as he believes she wants to be queen. But, I don't think she does. I think she never wants to see kings landing again unless it's to watch it burn. I think she knows it's schemers like him that got her family killed and is just waiting for a way to get her and Robert away from him(hopefully by killing him) while pretending to like him. Just like she did in Kings Landing, except this time the agency will be hers. 

[Blackfish Tully]

3 hours ago, Widow's Watch said:

I actually find all of this so interesting because LF thinks he's awesome at playing the game, but there is a lot of information that he doesn't have with regard to whatever he is plotting using Sansa.

1. He has no idea about Robb's will and how it removes Sansa from the line of succession due to her marriage to Tyrion.

 

this does not really matter as much as you might think . Sansa is still Ned's daughter and Edmure's niece and Robert's cousin , depending on how you look at it she is heir to both the North and the Riverlands , her blood ties will matter to the Lords of the North and the Riverlands . Not to mention she's the wife to the potential Lord of the Westerlands (for whatever that's worth ) 

 

3 hours ago, Widow's Watch said:

2. He has no idea that Bran and Rickon are alive, something that the northmen seem to be aware of. The mountain clans know about Bran and Manderly (and very possibly his allies inside Winterfell) know that Rickon is alive. 

 

we don't know what Littlefinger does or does not know about Rickon and Bran but frankly Littlefinger may have no plans on going North so that may not matter at all to him . 

 

3 hours ago, Widow's Watch said:

 

3. He thinks he has the trump card on the Boltons with Jeyne Poole. He doesn't. Most of the people inside Winterfell seem to be very aware that the girl is not Arya. If he thought he'd be able to pull the rug from under Roose and rouse the north for Sansa, that's not going to happen.

 

I doubt he thought that anybody would really be fooled by Jeyne , who knows why he did that , maybe he sent some people with her to be his spies  in the North . 

 

3 hours ago, Widow's Watch said:

 

4. Sansa has a shitload of information on him, like how he told Lysa to poison her husband so that they can be together, how he told her to write the letter to Catelyn that the Lannisters had him murdered. 

He built his whole scheme on quicksand. I am looking forward to his end and I hope it's painful.

who would believe her? and even if they believed her who would she tell this information to that could hurt Littlefinger at this point  ? Littlefinger has been smart so far to make sure that Sansa always knows that keeping his secrets are in her best interests , he's made promises to her and as long as she believes that he intents on keeping his promises she will stay on his side . 

[Chancho]

3 hours ago, The Wolves said:

Jaime Lannister is a monster. I think people give him a pass because of his witty dialogue and they hate Cersei more. He’s actually worse than Cersei because he has more agency than she has ever had and is more sane than her. He is the cause of Elia, Rhaenys and Aegon’s deaths. He should in no way be applauded for killing Aerys because any Kingsguard would have done it and Jaime only did it because his life and fellow Westernmens’ were in danger. I hope his death is brutal and meaningless. 

As a Targaryen and Martell fan I have a very petty side that laughs at the death, betrayal and destruction that has befallen the houses that rose up and betrayed House Targaryen. The unnecessary and cruel deaths of Elia, Rhaenys and Aegon will always make me side with the Targs. 

House Baratheon deserves its destruction. They had no business taking the throne. 

I hope the Lannisters goes extinct. 

Well regarding Jaime defending Elia and the others... He was the only kingsguard there and he was with Kings Aerys so he COULDN't be with the others because he is only one... Oswell, Gerald and Arthur could be there but the choose not to, so if there is a more probably reason why everyone got fucked up, it's they, one king's guard in King's Landing only... Jaime was truly stupid in not concerning about the safety of the children, but he was 17 and just killed the king and there as an army entering so nobody i sure of the exactly timing things happen.

There is also no reason in the books to think he was concerned only about westerman...