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Is Tommen being poisoned?

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Is someone trying to poison Tommen?  I just finished my simultaneous reread of AFFC & ADWD and they mention a few times how Ser Boros Blount has become Tommen's food taster since Joffrey was poisoned. In ADWD Epilogue I noticed how GRRM describes Ser Boros Blount's look and reemphasizes that he's Tommen's food taster (being the lowest task given to a Knight of the Kingsguard). I don't have the book to do an exact quote, but Kevan Lannister states that Blount has been getting heavier and how his coloring has been off...that he looks to be in poor health. Also, that he looked like he needed the wall to help him stay standing as if he would collapse without it. 

We haven't gotten any POV's with Tommen in awhile since Cersei would be our source and she was imprisoned by the Faith.  Could it be that someone is trying to kill Tommen by slowly poisoning him and those descriptions of Blount in the Epilogue are foreshadowing his death?  If so, who would be the poisoner? Maybe Maggy the Frog's prophecy is coming true of Cersei's children all dying. Sorry Tommen and Myrcella :(

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2 hours ago, fire&blood said:

Is someone trying to poison Tommen?  I just finished my simultaneous reread of AFFC & ADWD and they mention a few times how Ser Boros Blount has become Tommen's food taster since Joffrey was poisoned. In ADWD Epilogue I noticed how GRRM describes Ser Boros Blount's look and reemphasizes that he's Tommen's food taster (being the lowest task given to a Knight of the Kingsguard). I don't have the book to do an exact quote, but Kevan Lannister states that Blount has been getting heavier and how his coloring has been off...that he looks to be in poor health. Also, that he looked like he needed the wall to help him stay standing as if he would collapse without it. 

We haven't gotten any POV's with Tommen in awhile since Cersei would be our source and she was imprisoned by the Faith.  Could it be that someone is trying to kill Tommen by slowly poisoning him and those descriptions of Blount in the Epilogue are foreshadowing his death?  If so, who would be the poisoner? Maybe Maggy the Frog's prophecy is coming true of Cersei's children all dying. Sorry Tommen and Myrcella :(

Conspiracies are apparently out of style these days on the forums despite the fact that the author deals heavily in conspiracies. You're probably going to have to pull quotes if you really want to discuss this. I'd be interested to see what you have.

 

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Since Boros is a full grown man and Tommen is a child, the poison would effect Tommen first.  He is simply eating too much and not exercising.

The alternative is that Boros is being poisoned to make people think Tommen was also poisoned, to what end exactly I can't say, maybe to just increase Cersei's paranoia.  But since it is specifically mentioned that he has gained weight poison seems unlikely.  If you become sick you typically loose weight.

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10 hours ago, StarkofWinterfell said:

He’s just eating too much. 

Yeah. He should make a room in his stomach for Tommen.

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15 hours ago, fire&blood said:

Is someone trying to poison Tommen?  I just finished my simultaneous reread of AFFC & ADWD and they mention a few times how Ser Boros Blount has become Tommen's food taster since Joffrey was poisoned. In ADWD Epilogue I noticed how GRRM describes Ser Boros Blount's look and reemphasizes that he's Tommen's food taster (being the lowest task given to a Knight of the Kingsguard). I don't have the book to do an exact quote, but Kevan Lannister states that Blount has been getting heavier and how his coloring has been off...that he looks to be in poor health. Also, that he looked like he needed the wall to help him stay standing as if he would collapse without it. 

We haven't gotten any POV's with Tommen in awhile since Cersei would be our source and she was imprisoned by the Faith.  Could it be that someone is trying to kill Tommen by slowly poisoning him and those descriptions of Blount in the Epilogue are foreshadowing his death?  If so, who would be the poisoner? Maybe Maggy the Frog's prophecy is coming true of Cersei's children all dying. Sorry Tommen and Myrcella :(

If you can call kid's junk food poison, yes.  A grown man eating his own meals and then having to sample portions of a fat little boy's portions is not on his way to losing weight.  Too much calories going in and not enough going out.  Being attached to Tommen kept him from physical activities that could burn off some calories.  Then there is the depression and the stress that go along with his hazardous job.  I am not surprised it affected his health.  

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On 6/5/2018 at 3:41 PM, fire&blood said:

Is someone trying to poison Tommen?  I just finished my simultaneous reread of AFFC & ADWD and they mention a few times how Ser Boros Blount has become Tommen's food taster since Joffrey was poisoned. In ADWD Epilogue I noticed how GRRM describes Ser Boros Blount's look and reemphasizes that he's Tommen's food taster (being the lowest task given to a Knight of the Kingsguard). I don't have the book to do an exact quote, but Kevan Lannister states that Blount has been getting heavier and how his coloring has been off...that he looks to be in poor health. Also, that he looked like he needed the wall to help him stay standing as if he would collapse without it. 

We haven't gotten any POV's with Tommen in awhile since Cersei would be our source and she was imprisoned by the Faith.  Could it be that someone is trying to kill Tommen by slowly poisoning him and those descriptions of Blount in the Epilogue are foreshadowing his death?  If so, who would be the poisoner? Maybe Maggy the Frog's prophecy is coming true of Cersei's children all dying. Sorry Tommen and Myrcella :(

Interesting theory but I've always taken it as GRRM giving Boros his just desserts (pun intended).  He is routinely mocked by pretty much everyone for being the ahole coward that he is, Sansa thinks he's the worst of the KG and he hits her over and over and over.  He laughs at Barristan when he gets dismissed, then surrenders like a coward when the gold cloaks confront him while escorting Tommen.  Jaime then punishes and mocks Boros further by making him Tommen's official food-taster.  

I will say to the OP's theory that I believe at one point Kevan Lannister notes that Boros seems to be having trouble even standing up which seems to go beyond his cowardice and fatness.  

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Not Tommen, Cersei.

Boros and Cersei both drink spiced wine. As a digestive to settle a stomach.

Notice that, during AFfC, Cersei is becoming bloated (Dorcas can't pull her dresses tight enough), often experiences tongue swelling, mouth dry (particularly on waking), nightmares and restless sleep, and shiny wet eyes.  Cersei goes into withdrawal while she is in the Sept of Baelor (either that, or they were putting something in her bread and water...or they put something in her roast capon meal that alleviated her symptoms and helped her sleep soundly.)

It makes her paranoid, and mad, and ill. But she is back to her old ways in the epilogue of Dance of Dragons.

Because they are Southrons, there is lemon in their spiced wine.

I'm thinking, the reason Northerners don't put lemon in their spiced wine, in spite of believing in its tooth-preserving properties when combined with alcohol, is because the North remembers that it is toxic when combined with an exotic spice - I'm guessing one from the Summer Islands, because they are the ones with the spiced rum and spiced wine and exotic spices.

Prime suspects: Jalabar Xho, who is attempting to interest Margaery in his war. 

Varys/Illyrio - probably through a proxy, I'm guessing Varys has only just got back to Westeros and has been in Essos disguised as a sellsword while Cersei was being slowly poisoned. Illyrio as a trader of spices would know where to get them.

Baelish/Redwynes - Lady Olenna is not above suspicion, we have Petyr Baelish's word that she poisoned Joffrey, after all. But it is Petyr Baelish that has the rewarding special relationship with Lord Redwyne, and distributes Redwyne wines across the world. And Lord Redwyne's request that he not be rewarded with lands or titles or gold but only with exemption of duty on a particular vintage of one of his select wines, seems like an arrangement he must have made after consulting with his distributor.

Fine Arbor wines are the poisoner's brand of choice - look at Dany's attempted poisoning. The wineseller at the western markets, that is. I personally think that the chilled wine Kezmya Pahl served Fat Belwas in the fighting pits was intended by her mother and aunts to avenge Oznak zo Pahl, and the sweet spicy locust purge saved his life - and might have saved Jon Arryn, if Westeros had sweet spiced locusts and his constitution had been strong enough.

Lysa believes Jon Arryn was given Tears of Lys in his chilled wine, because Petyr Baelish told her that.  Still, not good for Dany that Kezmya is alive and the children of her enemies are still cupbearers. Also, Viserys might have been drinking madness-making wine before he drew his sword in Vaes Dothrak - Jorah wanted his lordship back, had little love for Viserys, and the fact that the small council and Robert knew he corresponded with Varys would disguise not prevent Petyr Baelish reaching out to him through his contacts in the trade.

Cersei mentioned to Tyrion when she took Alayaya that she had a new catspaw and distrusted Varys. Marei could have been the Baelish brothel plant that noticed how rested Alayaya was when she visited Lord Tyrion, and how rapidly Alayaya was progressing through her book, and wagered with Dancy to see if Tyrion would take her to the upper room, when it became clear that Alayaya could not be drawn on the subject. And of course, Petyr had got Cersei the goldcloaks and Ned's head shortly before Tyrion arrived in King's Landing. With Jon Arryn and Robert Baratheon both dead from wine, he had no-one more highly ranked than the Queen Regent to serve, after all (except perhaps Lord Renly).

There isn't much in Westeros that can't be blamed on Lord Baelish, though.

I do have a heap of quotes to support this (or at least explain where I'm getting this from) - I'll add them to this post later, when I get a chance. 

ETA:

On 6/6/2018 at 5:41 AM, fire&blood said:

Maybe Maggy the Frog's prophecy is coming true of Cersei's children all dying.

I don't doubt that it is, but Tommen is as stout and well as Kevan in the epilogue of Dance with Dragons.

Edited by Walda

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2 hours ago, Walda said:

Notice that, during AFfC, Cersei is becoming bloated (Dorcas can't pull her dresses tight enough), often experiences tongue swelling, mouth dry (particularly on waking), nightmares and restless sleep, and shiny wet eyes.  Cersei goes into withdrawal while she is in the Sept of Baelor (either that, or they were putting something in her bread and water...or they put something in her roast capon meal that alleviated her symptoms and helped her sleep soundly.)

I'm not an expert, but aren't these just symptoms of alcoholism? 

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34 minutes ago, Lemorecake said:

aren't these just symptoms of alcoholism? 

Well, yes, but mixed up and not right. Eg. Cirrhosis doesn't swell a person's belly up or make them too fat for their amour in just a few months, it takes years. The shakes, nightmares, hallucinations and fits are symptoms of DT's, experienced after drying out for a few days, while the swollen tongue and dry mouth are hangover symptoms, experienced after a night of heavy drinking. The shining eyes are a sign of inebriation.

Also, GRRM mentions the symptoms for a purpose (admittedly, that purpose could be to confuse and confound the reader). Merrett drinks heavily, but his headache is the consequence of a blow to the head as a squire. The Greatjon drinks heavily, but he is unaffected by alcohol (perhaps because he is drunk all the time, perhaps because he is a clumsy belligerent bonehead when sober, too.) Edmure likes to drink, but any symptoms he experiences go unnoticed. Hoster hardly drinks at all, just the dreamwine given to him by his maester, but he has some symptoms not unlike Cersei, Robert and Boros. Dontos is perpetually drunk, but he doesn't. The only words that stay in a novel are the ones that serve the story, so there is a reason for the dark circles under King Robert's eyes when he meets Eddard, that he is drinking beer from a horn, not wine from a skin, when he finds he is too big for his armour and confides to Eddard that the only thing that keeps him on the throne is the thought of Cersei as Queen Regent.

I came across this pattern of symptoms with Cersei, looking at the relationship between lemons and Cersei, and then, phantom pregnancy imagery in Cersei's story, and lemons with spiced wine/hippocras, and had a look at Lysa's arc for the same things, then noticed Boros, then Robert. It could be just alcoholism, but I don't think it is in the story because it is just alcoholism. Cersei feels triumphant when Robert is gored by the bull, Lancel feels like a Kingslayer. They might both be kidding themselves, it might just have been that Robert was too drunk to dodge the boar. The boar might not be BloodRaven. But GRRM has been selective with his words to get us thinking otherwise, and keep us guessing.

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1 hour ago, Walda said:

I came across this pattern of symptoms with Cersei, looking at the relationship between lemons and Cersei, and then, phantom pregnancy imagery in Cersei's story, and lemons with spiced wine/hippocras, and had a look at Lysa's arc for the same things, then noticed Boros, then Robert. It could be just alcoholism, but I don't think it is in the story because it is just alcoholism. 

This is quite interesting. I have never thought of it, but Varys poisoning her would make totally sense.

Otherwise, we should keep her growing paranoia and madness in mind. Alcohol abuse and mental ilness may go hand in hand and cause symptoms like sleeping problems.

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15 hours ago, Tagganaro said:

I will say to the OP's theory that I believe at one point Kevan Lannister notes that Boros seems to be having trouble even standing up which seems to go beyond his cowardice and fatness.  

Yes. He did notice how his coloring was off lately and how he couldn't even stand without the wall there to help him. Maybe someone is trying to add to Cersei's anxiety and paranoia by messing with Tommen's food taster. Anything to make her more unstable...chaos is a ladder.

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14 hours ago, Walda said:

Not Tommen, Cersei.

Boros and Cersei both drink spiced wine. As a digestive to settle a stomach.

Notice that, during AFfC, Cersei is becoming bloated (Dorcas can't pull her dresses tight enough), often experiences tongue swelling, mouth dry (particularly on waking), nightmares and restless sleep, and shiny wet eyes.  Cersei goes into withdrawal while she is in the Sept of Baelor (either that, or they were putting something in her bread and water...or they put something in her roast capon meal that alleviated her symptoms and helped her sleep soundly.)

It makes her paranoid, and mad, and ill. But she is back to her old ways in the epilogue of Dance of Dragons.

Because they are Southrons, there is lemon in their spiced wine.

I'm thinking, the reason Northerners don't put lemon in their spiced wine, in spite of believing in its tooth-preserving properties when combined with alcohol, is because the North remembers that it is toxic when combined with an exotic spice - I'm guessing one from the Summer Islands, because they are the ones with the spiced rum and spiced wine and exotic spices.

Prime suspects: Jalabar Xho, who is attempting to interest Margaery in his war. 

Varys/Illyrio - probably through a proxy, I'm guessing Varys has only just got back to Westeros and has been in Essos disguised as a sellsword while Cersei was being slowly poisoned. Illyrio as a trader of spices would know where to get them.

Baelish/Redwynes - Lady Olenna is not above suspicion, we have Petyr Baelish's word that she poisoned Joffrey, after all. But it is Petyr Baelish that has the rewarding special relationship with Lord Redwyne, and distributes Redwyne wines across the world. And Lord Redwyne's request that he not be rewarded with lands or titles or gold but only with exemption of duty on a particular vintage of one of his select wines, seems like an arrangement he must have made after consulting with his distributor.

Fine Arbor wines are the poisoner's brand of choice - look at Dany's attempted poisoning. The wineseller at the western markets, that is. I personally think that the chilled wine Kezmya Pahl served Fat Belwas in the fighting pits was intended by her mother and aunts to avenge Oznak zo Pahl, and the sweet spicy locust purge saved his life - and might have saved Jon Arryn, if Westeros had sweet spiced locusts and his constitution had been strong enough.

Lysa believes Jon Arryn was given Tears of Lys in his chilled wine, because Petyr Baelish told her that.  Still, not good for Dany that Kezmya is alive and the children of her enemies are still cupbearers. Also, Viserys might have been drinking madness-making wine before he drew his sword in Vaes Dothrak - Jorah wanted his lordship back, had little love for Viserys, and the fact that the small council and Robert knew he corresponded with Varys would disguise not prevent Petyr Baelish reaching out to him through his contacts in the trade.

Cersei mentioned to Tyrion when she took Alayaya that she had a new catspaw and distrusted Varys. Marei could have been the Baelish brothel plant that noticed how rested Alayaya was when she visited Lord Tyrion, and how rapidly Alayaya was progressing through her book, and wagered with Dancy to see if Tyrion would take her to the upper room, when it became clear that Alayaya could not be drawn on the subject. And of course, Petyr had got Cersei the goldcloaks and Ned's head shortly before Tyrion arrived in King's Landing. With Jon Arryn and Robert Baratheon both dead from wine, he had no-one more highly ranked than the Queen Regent to serve, after all (except perhaps Lord Renly).

There isn't much in Westeros that can't be blamed on Lord Baelish, though.

I do have a heap of quotes to support this (or at least explain where I'm getting this from) - I'll add them to this post later, when I get a chance. 

ETA:

I don't doubt that it is, but Tommen is as stout and well as Kevan in the epilogue of Dance with Dragons.

This is very interesting! Thank you for adding to this thread. There's so much mention throughout the series of wine, different types of wine, poisoning used in wine, etc. that it gives one pause. Cersei has been going downhill fast and making her more anxious and paranoid seems like a good start for someone who enjoys chaos.

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I'm not sure how the timelines add up as there are no quotes in this thread so it's only offered as something to chew on.

On my last reread of Jon, I noticed how much he's been drinking wine and it put me in mind of Cersei though Jon isn't experiencing the same symptoms (unless one considers his rages as the same symptoms?). The details are laid out here.

https://cantuse.wordpress.com/2015/02/20/a-confederacy-of-stewards/

A connection between Jon and Cersei might be Cersei's plan to take out Jon via Osney Kettleblack who works for LF. Right about the time LF probably would have heard word from Osney about Cersei's plan for Marg and Jon, he says:

AFFC Alayne I

"—I might have to remove her from the game sooner than I'd planned. Provided she does not remove herself first." Petyr teased her with a little smile. "In the game of thrones, even the humblest pieces can have wills of their own. Sometimes they refuse to make the moves you've planned for them. Mark that well, Alayne. It's a lesson that Cersei Lannister still has yet to learn. Now, don't you have some duties to perform?"

 

This is also the same chapter where LF begins to introduce sweetsleep to Robert, so poison has been on his mind.

AFFC Alayne I

"Is that your counsel, maester? That we find a wet nurse for the Lord of the Eyrie and Defender of the Vale? When shall we wean him, on his wedding day? That way he can move directly from his nurse's nipples to his wife's." Lord Petyr's laugh made it plain what he thought of that. "No, I think not. I suggest you find another way. The boy is fond of sweets, is he not?"

"Sweets?" said Colemon.

"Sweets. Cakes and pies, jams and jellies, honey on the comb. Perhaps a pinch of sweetsleep in his milk, have you tried that? Just a pinch, to calm him and stop his wretched shaking."

"A pinch?" The apple in the maester's throat moved up and down as he swallowed. "One small pinch . . . perhaps, perhaps. Not too much, and not too often, yes, I might try . . ."

"A pinch," Lord Petyr said, "before you bring him forth to meet the lords."

"As you command, my lord." The maester hurried out, his chain clinking softly with every step.

 

 

 

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