Book!Jon VS Show!Jon

[Euron III Greyjoy]

Due to yet again another false rumor of The Winds of Winter being released at the end of 2018, at the start of the year I re-read and re-watched both the books and the show. Obviously there are many differences between the books and the show, but I feel like despite their differences many of the show characters are very similar to their book counterparts. To me the biggest change from the books, character wise at least, is Jon Snow. I'm curious to what other people think of these changes, and which version you all prefer. I would appreciate you all respecting each others opinions and not starting an argument. 

I personally prefer Book Jon Snow. My main reason for this is that GRRM made Jon seem more like a realistic human, with real human problems and emotions. I feel like the show tries way to hard to make their characters more likable, and they do this by removing the 'bad' points from these characters. I think the two best examples are Jon, who they made into this bland, Captain America style hero, and Tyrion, who they made into their comic relief character. There is also the fact that Show Jon just seems really dumb most of the time. Most of the 5th book Jon was getting into the politics of the Nights Watch, coming up with new ideas to benefit them, such as wanting to examine wights and build glass houses, treating with the Wildling leaders, and on top of that giving advice to Stannis on how to win the North, all of which really benefited Stannis, showing that Jon is a capable leader. What did Show Jon really do in Season 5? The only things that really stand out are becoming Lord Commander, behead Janos Slynt, go to Hardhome, send Sam to the Citadel, and then die. Don't get me wrong. I love watching most of his action scenes, but alot of them seem unnecessary/unrealistic.  

 

[Lost Melnibonean]

Ain't no way book Jon Snow woulda cowered behind a tree while Others took Craster's babe. He'd be dead, of course. 

[Lollygag]

Probably should request that this be moved to the show forum.

I discussed some of this here without going into much detail about show Jon. I see a lot of show Jon bleeding into book Jon on the forums and I wanted to bring up some things which have been overlooked in show Jon's whitewashing of book Jon.

 

 

30 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Ain't no way book Jon Snow woulda cowered behind a tree while Others took Craster's babe. He'd be dead, of course. 

I agree but book Jon accepts Mormont's, um, practicality, here no problem. No outrage. Kinda weird for me actually....

ACOK Jon III

"At Winterfell one of the serving women told us stories," Jon went on. "She used to say that there were wildlings who would lay with the Others to birth half-human children."

"Hearth tales. Does Craster seem less than human to you?"

In half a hundred ways. "He gives his sons to the wood."

A long silence. Then: "Yes." And "Yes," the raven muttered, strutting. "Yes, yes, yes."

"You knew?"

"Smallwood told me. Long ago. All the rangers know, though few will talk of it."

"Did my uncle know?"

"All the rangers," Mormont repeated. "You think I ought to stop him. Kill him if need be." The Old Bear sighed. "Were it only that he wished to rid himself of some mouths, I'd gladly send Yoren or Conwys to collect the boys. We could raise them to the black and the Watch would be that much the stronger. But the wildlings serve crueler gods than you or I. These boys are Craster's offerings. His prayers, if you will."

His wives must offer different prayers, Jon thought.

"How is it you came to know this?" the Old Bear asked him. "From one of Craster's wives?"

"Yes, my lord," Jon confessed. "I would sooner not tell you which. She was frightened and wanted help."

"The wide world is full of people wanting help, Jon. Would that some could find the courage to help themselves. Craster sprawls in his loft even now, stinking of wine and lost to sense. On his board below lies a sharp new axe. Were it me, I'd name it "Answered Prayer' and make an end."

Yes. Jon thought of Gilly. She and her sisters. They were nineteen, and Craster was one, but . . .

"Yet it would be an ill day for us if Craster died. Your uncle could tell you of the times Craster's Keep made the difference between life and death for our rangers."

"My father . . ." He hesitated.

"Go on, Jon. Say what you would say."

"My father once told me that some men are not worth having," Jon finished. "A bannerman who is brutal or unjust dishonors his liege lord as well as himself."

"Craster is his own man. He has sworn us no vows. Nor is he subject to our laws. Your heart is noble, Jon, but learn a lesson here. We cannot set the world to rights. That is not our purpose. The Night's Watch has other wars to fight."

Other wars. Yes. I must remember. "Jarman Buckwell said I might have need of my sword soon."

"Did he?" Mormont did not seem pleased. "Craster said much and more last night, and confirmed enough of my fears to condemn me to a sleepless night on his floor. Mance Rayder is gathering his people together in the Frostfangs. That's why the villages are empty. It is the same tale that Ser Denys Mallister had from the wildling his men captured in the Gorge, but Craster has added the where, and that makes all the difference."

 

[Lost Melnibonean]

2 hours ago, Lollygag said:

Probably should request that this be moved to the show forum.

I discussed some of this here without going into much detail about show Jon. I see a lot of show Jon bleeding into book Jon on the forums and I wanted to bring up some things which have been overlooked in show Jon's whitewashing of book Jon.

 

 

I agree but book Jon accepts Mormont's, um, practicality, here no problem. No outrage. Kinda weird for me actually....

ACOK Jon III

 

"At Winterfell one of the serving women told us stories," Jon went on. "She used to say that there were wildlings who would lay with the Others to birth half-human children."

 

"Hearth tales. Does Craster seem less than human to you?"

 

In half a hundred ways. "He gives his sons to the wood."

 

A long silence. Then: "Yes." And "Yes," the raven muttered, strutting. "Yes, yes, yes."

 

"You knew?"

 

"Smallwood told me. Long ago. All the rangers know, though few will talk of it."

 

"Did my uncle know?"

 

"All the rangers," Mormont repeated. "You think I ought to stop him. Kill him if need be." The Old Bear sighed. "Were it only that he wished to rid himself of some mouths, I'd gladly send Yoren or Conwys to collect the boys. We could raise them to the black and the Watch would be that much the stronger. But the wildlings serve crueler gods than you or I. These boys are Craster's offerings. His prayers, if you will."

 

His wives must offer different prayers, Jon thought.

 

"How is it you came to know this?" the Old Bear asked him. "From one of Craster's wives?"

 

"Yes, my lord," Jon confessed. "I would sooner not tell you which. She was frightened and wanted help."

 

"The wide world is full of people wanting help, Jon. Would that some could find the courage to help themselves. Craster sprawls in his loft even now, stinking of wine and lost to sense. On his board below lies a sharp new axe. Were it me, I'd name it "Answered Prayer' and make an end."

 

Yes. Jon thought of Gilly. She and her sisters. They were nineteen, and Craster was one, but . . .

 

"Yet it would be an ill day for us if Craster died. Your uncle could tell you of the times Craster's Keep made the difference between life and death for our rangers."

 

"My father . . ." He hesitated.

 

"Go on, Jon. Say what you would say."

 

"My father once told me that some men are not worth having," Jon finished. "A bannerman who is brutal or unjust dishonors his liege lord as well as himself."

 

"Craster is his own man. He has sworn us no vows. Nor is he subject to our laws. Your heart is noble, Jon, but learn a lesson here. We cannot set the world to rights. That is not our purpose. The Night's Watch has other wars to fight."

 

Other wars. Yes. I must remember. "Jarman Buckwell said I might have need of my sword soon."

 

"Did he?" Mormont did not seem pleased. "Craster said much and more last night, and confirmed enough of my fears to condemn me to a sleepless night on his floor. Mance Rayder is gathering his people together in the Frostfangs. That's why the villages are empty. It is the same tale that Ser Denys Mallister had from the wildling his men captured in the Gorge, but Craster has added the where, and that makes all the difference."

 

 

 

As the old powers awake in the North, so will the old ways. Get ready for some bronze sickles, entrails hung like seaweed tapestries, and paste... lots and lots of paste. 

[Lollygag]

16 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

As the old powers awake in the North, so will the old ways. Get ready for some bronze sickles, entrails hung like seaweed tapestries, and paste... lots and lots of paste. 

Yup. Sometimes I wonder that those old ways were just lightly snoozing or still awake but hidden rather than sleeping.