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DCEU: Suicidal Insanity


The BlackBear

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2 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Will probably make a great music video.. a bit like Suicide Squad.

Lol. Good burn. I didn't realize this was already filming (guess it might not be as wouldn't tale much to create that teaser). Wonder if they'll film the multitude of harley quinn related films back to back? Guess Margot Robbie could have walked straight off the queen of scots set to this with only minor make up adjustments.

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1 hour ago, red snow said:

I didn't realize this was already filming (guess it might not be as wouldn't tale much to create that teaser).


That looks like a 'first day of shooting special' jobbie to me, and Wikipedia does say that shooting just began two weeks ago so...

It kind of does need to have done if it comes out in a year.

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4 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Will probably make a great music video.. a bit like Suicide Squad.

Even ignoring the quality of the movie why doesn t DC learn?

They want to make a super hero team movie without introducing the characters in their solo or with smaller cast movies. If suicide squad and justice league failed why would birds of prey suceed?

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17 minutes ago, divica said:

Even ignoring the quality of the movie why doesn t DC learn?

They want to make a super hero team movie without introducing the characters in their solo or with smaller cast movies. If suicide squad and justice league failed why would birds of prey suceed?

Suicide Squad didn’t really fail though, it made a ton of money. Maybe DC have learnt something , that they don’t need to bother making good movies

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24 minutes ago, divica said:

 

They want to make a super hero team movie without introducing the characters in their solo or with smaller cast movies. If suicide squad and justice league failed why would birds of prey suceed?


I honestly don't understand why people keep saying this? Suicide Squad and Justice League were bad because they were bad, not because they introduced the whole crew at once. Ensemble movies are a completely standard thing in cinema- would Ocean's 11 really have been a better movie with a standalone introducing all the cast separately? Or the Lord of the Rings? And hell, even talking superheroes Marvel did it with Guardians of the Galaxy.

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1 minute ago, polishgenius said:


I honestly don't understand why people keep saying this? Suicide Squad and Justice League were bad because they were bad, not because they introduced the whole crew at once. Ensemble movies are a completely standard thing in cinema- would Ocean's 11 really have been a better movie with a standalone introducing all the cast separately? Or the Lord of the Rings? And hell, even talking superheroes Marvel did it with Guardians of the Galaxy.

Yeah - we'd have just had a dozen bad movies (if they had all been made in same style). Marvel were the first/only ones to make the lead in, prior to a team-up angle work. There are far more examples of the opposite working.

Fant4stic wouldn't have been a better film with 4 lead-in movies (5 with a Doom prequel). Either hire a screenwriter/director who can handle an ensemble/team film or make a string of solo films. 

Justice League and Avengers are probably the rare cases where you could even do lead in films because they consist of iconic characters. There's no one in the suicide squad film who could really sustain a solo film as their first outing onto the big screen - even "the amazing Harley quinn" is turning out to be in additional team-up. There was nothing about the other suicide squad team members where I thought "they could sustain their own film". It's not impossible but it'd be an endeavour to have made those solo films work - although I guess Katana could have benefitted from a line of dialogue (pretty sure it was another character who narrated her entire exposition in the film)

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28 minutes ago, polishgenius said:


I honestly don't understand why people keep saying this? Suicide Squad and Justice League were bad because they were bad, not because they introduced the whole crew at once. Ensemble movies are a completely standard thing in cinema- would Ocean's 11 really have been a better movie with a standalone introducing all the cast separately? Or the Lord of the Rings? And hell, even talking superheroes Marvel did it with Guardians of the Galaxy.

 

15 minutes ago, red snow said:

Yeah - we'd have just had a dozen bad movies (if they had all been made in same style). Marvel were the first/only ones to make the lead in, prior to a team-up angle work. There are far more examples of the opposite working.

Fant4stic wouldn't have been a better film with 4 lead-in movies (5 with a Doom prequel). Either hire a screenwriter/director who can handle an ensemble/team film or make a string of solo films. 

Justice League and Avengers are probably the rare cases where you could even do lead in films because they consist of iconic characters. There's no one in the suicide squad film who could really sustain a solo film as their first outing onto the big screen - even "the amazing Harley quinn" is turning out to be in additional team-up. There was nothing about the other suicide squad team members where I thought "they could sustain their own film". It's not impossible but it'd be an endeavour to have made those solo films work - although I guess Katana could have benefitted from a line of dialogue (pretty sure it was another character who narrated her entire exposition in the film)

There are big diferences. In usual ensemble movies the characters are there because the story needs them while in super heroes movies the characters are there because people want them in the movies. And in order for people to care about a character it needs movie time. Suicide squad would have been much more interesting if the characters had apeared in previous movies. And I don t mean a solo movie about them, but they could have minor roles in other movies so that people would be interested in them in suicide squad.

Guardians worked so well because we aren t presented super heroes in the movie but characters and a story that we could see in a non marvel film. They didn t try to sell the movie based on which characters entered but in the story. We can see in that trailer that birds of prey is already promoting the heroines that will enter the movie instead of any kind of story that would gather those people.

Another thing is that super hero movies try to explain the origin of the characters and what their powers are. When you have 10 characters (between heroes and vilains) to introduce it is just too much and doesn t work.

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1 minute ago, divica said:

 

There are big diferences. In usual ensemble movies the characters are there because the story needs them while in super heroes movies the characters are there because people want them in the movies. And in order for people to care about a character it needs movie time. Suicide squad would have been much more interesting if the characters had apeared in previous movies. And I don t mean a solo movie about them, but they could have minor roles in other movies so that people would be interested in them in suicide squad.

Guardians worked so well because we aren t presented super heroes in the movie but characters and a story that we could see in a non marvel film. They didn t try to sell the movie based on which characters entered but in the story. We can see in that trailer that birds of prey is already promoting the heroines that will enter the movie instead of any kind of story that would gather those people.

Another thing is that super hero movies try to explain the origin of the characters and what their powers are. When you have 10 characters (between heroes and vilains) to introduce it is just too much and doesn t work.

I see where you're coming from eg they should have all appeared as villains in Batman/shazam/green arrow etc first? It might have helped in the sense people would be more interested but they'd have arguably been more disappointed too.

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3 minutes ago, red snow said:

I see where you're coming from eg they should have all appeared as villains in Batman/shazam/green arrow etc first? It might have helped in the sense people would be more interested but they'd have arguably been more disappointed too.

That is what I meant. And they didn t even need to be the main villains in those movies...

And I think birds of prey seems to have the same problem. Too many characters we don t care about and that people that aren t fans of the comics don t know. If they try to sell the movie because it has those characters (as is usual in super hero movies) it will suck.

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29 minutes ago, divica said:

We can see in that trailer that birds of prey is already promoting the heroines that will enter the movie instead of any kind of story that would gather those people.


That's because they haven't filmed any of the story yet. It's more of announcement than a trailer.


And superhero films can try to explain origins but they don't have to.

All that stuff you said about GotG vs Suicide Squad/JL really just comes down to 'well made vs badly made'. A well made movie will make you care about its characters even if they haven't appeared elsewhere- what you're talking about there is really just about marketing, and Suicide Squad had no problem with that side.

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It's a really good point actually. The vast majority of movies seem to be able to create characters that you manage to care about without the need for some sort of origin story or previous set up. That is the role of good writing and acting. 

Suicide Squad or Justice League really could have worked just fine without any set up or backstory. There are many fantastic ensemble movies that didn't need previous movies to make them work. Oceans 11, Seven Samurai, Maginificent 7.. or even movies like say Predator where I have a real love and sense of the characters despite them barely having screen time or saying very much. Not every character has to be fleshed out and we don't need to have their lives detailed in order for us to understand who they are and what they represent.

 

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16 hours ago, Bastard of Boston said:

Didn't see the Batman announcement coming :o :P. About 3 years in the making from him writing, directing and starring to directing and starring, to starring and now probably wanting to have himself digitally removed from previous films. It's a shame as I think he had a lot of potential in the role - especially if it had been his own creation regarding screenplay and directing.

 

Gunn directing doesn't seem a big surprise either but this is welcome news. Gunn's approach to unwilling characters thrown together has a proven track record - if suicide squad allows him to inject some of his darker ideas from earlier films (and not his tweets) this sounds genuinely promising. We all know that Bautista will be in it and no doubt have a starring role. Bane maybe? Be good to see Bautista do intelligent rather than comic relief. Although I guess it's a rule Harley Quinn still needs to be in it. Good PR move by WB after the somewhat sour taste left by Disney's move. Let's hope Disney never winds up owning everything or there'll be no-where for their blacklisted creators to run,

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My biggest issue with the movies in the DCEU is the poor utilization of its villains. Most are boring  and die at the movie or simply only entertaining in that they could be made fun of. Truth be told I don’t think they really have  presented any good villains as of yet. I find Leto’s joker to be the worst. Given that the DCEU Batman has been shown to be shown to not really caring about killing so I don’t see why he in particular hasn’t snapped Leto’s neck already. Leto’s existence actually makes Batman a more inconsistent character here. 

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On 2/2/2019 at 1:27 AM, Varysblackfyre321 said:

My biggest issue with the movies in the DCEU is the poor utilization of its villains. Most are boring  and die at the movie or simply only entertaining in that they could be made fun of. Truth be told I don’t think they really have  presented any good villains as of yet. I find Leto’s joker to be the worst. Given that the DCEU Batman has been shown to be shown to not really caring about killing so I don’t see why he in particular hasn’t snapped Leto’s neck already. Leto’s existence actually makes Batman a more inconsistent character here. 

To be fair the same criticism could be leveled at the vast majority of marvel films yet i still enjoy them so I'm not sure this is the fundamental problem i've been experiencing with the DC films. 

Batman was a decent villain in bvs and suicide squad. 

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Just now, red snow said:

To be fair the same criticism could be leveled at the vast majority of marvel films yet i still enjoy them so I'm not sure this is the fundamental problem i've been experiencing with the DC films. 

Batman was a decent villain in bvs and suicide squad. 

Yeah, but Marvel had Loki for a number of years. And Marvel  also has been hyping up Thanos way more effectively  than the DCEU has been hyping up Darkseid. And Batman was a protagonist in BVS and his appearance in SS was basically a cameo. Even if was doing something bad, rather than arresting murderers and thieves, in SS I don’t see him being a good villain.

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On 2/2/2019 at 1:27 AM, Varysblackfyre321 said:

My biggest issue with the movies in the DCEU is the poor utilization of its villains. Most are boring  and die at the movie or simply only entertaining in that they could be made fun of. Truth be told I don’t think they really have  presented any good villains as of yet. I find Leto’s joker to be the worst. Given that the DCEU Batman has been shown to be shown to not really caring about killing so I don’t see why he in particular hasn’t snapped Leto’s neck already. Leto’s existence actually makes Batman a more inconsistent character here. 

I don't think it's their biggest problem by a long shot. I'd put it behind bad scripts, bad cgi, rushed storytelling, building a universe over telling a story, Zach Snyder..

MCU has managed to get out some good movies despite rarely having a decent villain in any of them. 

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So, there's not only an Aquaman sequel but a spinoff. Based around... the trench creatures.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/an-aquaman-spinoff-is-happening-without-any-of-aquamans-1832474996

Quote

Writers Noah Gardner and Aidan Fitzgerald have been hired to write The Trench, a horror-themed DC movie focused on the creatures who attack Arthur (Jason Momoa) and Mera (Amber Heard) toward the end of Aquaman. All that’s known about the film, according to the Hollywood Reporter, is that “it will be set in the kingdom of the Trench and will not feature the main cast of Aquaman.”

That seems random.

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