DCEU: Suicidal Insanity

[Relic]

On 4/3/2019 at 6:14 PM, Ran said:

Looks better, as a piece of cinema, than anything DC has put out since Nolan. De Niro being a part of this makes the King of Comedy/Taxi Driver vibes a bit too on the nose, but Phoenix looks like he's all in on this (as he generally is). Vastly more interested in this than the VFX action spectacles that have been the norm.

To be quite honest this looks more interesting than anything comic book related, be it DC/Marvel/other that come out since ... the second Nolan Batman? 

I remember a bunch of people on here sayin Leto's Joker looked cool or interesting, and scoffing at the nothin, but im all on board with this. 

[Ran]

7 minutes ago, Relic said:

To be quite honest this looks more interesting than anything comic book related, be it DC/Marvel/other that come out since ... the second Nolan Batman? 

I think Logan would be the other thing I'd point out in the live-action space (Into the Spiderverse bears mentioning when considering animation), but yeah, I'm with you otherwise. I'm all Marvelled out, and while Wonder Woman was entertaining it wasn't exactly breaking out of the box.

Of course, the trailer may have shown us 90% of the good stuff that's in the movie. We'll have to wait and see!

 

[Kalbear]

It looked like a clown-based remake of Falling Down. I think Phoenix is an amazing actor, but I didn't see anything in there that made me want to see what came next. 

[JGP]

The girls really wanted to see it, so I took them to Shazam last night. They loved it. Me, not so much. It was better than I thought it would be though, so it's got that going for it. 

[Bastard of Boston]

Idris Elba is not playing Deadshot in Suicide Squad

"New" as in original, or "new" as in another comic character? Hm.

[polishgenius]

7 minutes ago, Bastard of Boston said:

"New" as in original, or "new" as in another comic character? Hm.

Curious. It kind of makes sense to avoid confusion by recasting some people but not others in a reboot, but Deadshot is obviously mega-key to the Squad. If it's genuinely a late character swapout rather than a misreporting, then it presumably has to be someone not-that-dissimilar, and looking through the Squad member lists it seems like the only character who could concievably fill that role is Deathstroke, who seems to have been in the team in one recent iteration. So I'd guess either him or a new character entirely which would just be odd in something like this.

 

And let's be fair, Idris as Deathstroke would fucking rock, even though (1) it seems like Deathstroke is becoming almost overexposed these days and (2) him being a Suicide Squad leader feels weird.

[Argonath Diver]

I'm a bit baffled regarding Elba's signing onto this. Seems to me that a guy of his stature wouldn't sign onto a movie without a specific character in mind, or a script involved. I suppose he is simply receiving a large paycheck - but he could do that in any number of movies. He seemed utterly disinterested in his role as Heimdall, so it just strikes me as a bit odd that he's signed onto a 're-imagining' of an absolutely dreadful movie that doesn't seem to have any direction yet (other than Gunn, um, directing).

Then again, as I was typing this I recalled that stunningly stupid Dark Tower movie. Maybe Elba just wants a new yacht. 

[polishgenius]

6 hours ago, Argonath Diver said:

He seemed utterly disinterested in his role as Heimdall,

I think he had a phase where he was really up his own arse after he played Mandela, but has since, judging by subsequent roles, recovered his equilibrium and realised that you can be taken seriously as an actor while appearing in silly movies that people enjoy. I mean, his next three scheduled film roles are this, Hobbes and Shaw, and Cats.
I mean, I'm sure money has to do with it too, but he's definitely taking himself less seriously than he was six years ago.

[mormont]

10 hours ago, polishgenius said:

Curious. It kind of makes sense to avoid confusion by recasting some people but not others in a reboot, but Deadshot is obviously mega-key to the Squad. If it's genuinely a late character swapout rather than a misreporting, then it presumably has to be someone not-that-dissimilar, and looking through the Squad member lists it seems like the only character who could concievably fill that role is Deathstroke, who seems to have been in the team in one recent iteration. So I'd guess either him or a new character entirely which would just be odd in something like this.

Deathstroke for Deadshot is only going to confuse audiences, particularly with Elba for Smith. The average audience member is going to be confused about whether this is still Deadshot and whether they changed his name for some reason.

The other obvious option is Bronze Tiger, but that's a 100% martial arts role. Is Elba up to doing that?

[Centrist Simon Steele]

How unpopular is it to say that I think the Joker is kind of (or really, really) overrated? I don't get it. In fact, most of Batman's enemies seem kind of lame. But I just don't get the Joker. Maybe it's how my brother used to try to explain to me some comic series where the Joker did something, and he explained it as literary genius. 

[Heartofice]

7 hours ago, Simon Steele said:

How unpopular is it to say that I think the Joker is kind of (or really, really) overrated? I don't get it. In fact, most of Batman's enemies seem kind of lame. But I just don't get the Joker. Maybe it's how my brother used to try to explain to me some comic series where the Joker did something, and he explained it as literary genius. 

I dunno, I've loved him ever since the Killing Joke.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

14 hours ago, Heartofice said:

I dunno, I've loved him ever since the Killing Joke.

That's the one my brother always was talking about (I just looked it up, I remember the cover with the camera).

On a side note, it sounds like Shazam is okay--not the best, not the worst. I hate all these lists putting it above Wonder Woman. I know some people have noted that Wonder Woman was good but doesn't do much new narratively, and maybe that's true, but it was kind of perfect for me. She made me feel good like when I used to watch Christopher Reeves as a kid. Of all the superhero movies, few have done that for me. Thor does (I think a lot of those movies are hit or miss for people, but I think Chris Hemsworth is so good, and, I have to admit, he's good to look at). Wonder Woman does the same. I also like Gal Gadot. She's got presence.

[polishgenius]

32 minutes ago, Simon Steele said:

I hate all these lists putting it above Wonder Woman.

I wouldn't put it above Wonder Woman but the difference definitely isn't big enough that people seeing it the other way is egregious or weird in any way (unless it's the WW is bad coz it's feminist! crowd of course). In a totally different way, but Shazam! does a lot of those same feelgood things that WW did that you like, it's a very classic, very 'joy of superheroism' movie.

Tbh, probably the only thing that puts WW definitively over the top for me is the No Man's Land sequence, which has a strong argument for best and most meaningful action scene in a superhero film ever. Shazam doesn't have anything to match that.
(oh, and the theme. Wonder Woman's theme is historically good)

[Centrist Simon Steele]

1 hour ago, polishgenius said:

I wouldn't put it above Wonder Woman but the difference definitely isn't big enough that people seeing it the other way is egregious or weird in any way (unless it's the WW is bad coz it's feminist! crowd of course). In a totally different way, but Shazam! does a lot of those same feelgood things that WW did that you like, it's a very classic, very 'joy of superheroism' movie.

Tbh, probably the only thing that puts WW definitively over the top for me is the No Man's Land sequence, which has a strong argument for best and most meaningful action scene in a superhero film ever. Shazam doesn't have anything to match that.
(oh, and the theme. Wonder Woman's theme is historically good)

I gotta agree (with all the Wonder Woman stuff--especially her theme, I love it). I haven't seen Shazam, it just seemed quick to try and dethrone it. I plan to watch Shazam when it comes out on VOD--too many movies to see in theater right now. Why the heck didn't they release it a month or two ago. NOTHING was in the theaters, and I was dying to see a movie.

[dbunting]

I think Shazam was more enjoyable than WW to me, doesn't mean it was a better movie.

I was hesitant to see Shazam but went this weekend anyway and was happy I did. As long as you expect more of a family friendly comedy than most of these movies then you will be happy to have seen it. 

[Myrddin]

10 hours ago, dbunting said:

I think Shazam was more enjoyable than WW to me, doesn't mean it was a better movie.

I was hesitant to see Shazam but went this weekend anyway and was happy I did. As long as you expect more of a family friendly comedy than most of these movies then you will be happy to have seen it. 

My feelings as well. I enjoyed it. But it's not a must see in the theater kind of movie. Family friendly comedy sums it up. And it does that very well.

[Jace, Extat]

On 4/8/2019 at 8:11 PM, polishgenius said:

I wouldn't put it above Wonder Woman but the difference definitely isn't big enough that people seeing it the other way is egregious or weird in any way (unless it's the WW is bad coz it's feminist! crowd of course). In a totally different way, but Shazam! does a lot of those same feelgood things that WW did that you like, it's a very classic, very 'joy of superheroism' movie.

Tbh, probably the only thing that puts WW definitively over the top for me is the No Man's Land sequence, which has a strong argument for best and most meaningful action scene in a superhero film ever. Shazam doesn't have anything to match that.
(oh, and the theme. Wonder Woman's theme is historically good)

This is very gratifying to read, especially from someone whose taste I respect.

I found Wonder Woman to be pretty average. There's some good acting, funny moments, and the actor lady did wwwwwaaaaaaayyyy better than Batman v Superman. But the story was a bit shaky. I think they struggled trying to differentiate themselves from the first Captain America movie. And make no mistake, Wonder Woman is a tall building's single leap and another bound better than that piece of shit introduction of Chris Evans to the MCU. 

But I think if you take out the no man's land scene, the picture would crumble into absolute trash. It seriously might be the best superhero reveal moment ever put on film and elevates everything else that happens.

[polishgenius]

6 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

But I think if you take out the no man's land scene, the picture would crumble into absolute trash.

I wouldn't go that far but yeah, I generally agree that that scene elevates it and that it has story problems. The other obvious comparison to WW is Thor 1, and while I'd probably put WW over it overall on the back of its technical filmcraft, Thor has (1) a much better villain, obviously and (2) a better sense for how to interlink its locations. By which I mean that WW essentially becomes a rather vague quest movie with three completely separate locations that never feel connected (the boat journey from Thermyscera to London is far more magical nonsense than the Bifrost) and also that Thermyscera, as great as it is taken in itself, never really felt convincingly placed in the 'real' world to me (I mean, what the fuck was that protection they had? No-one had ever found their way through the shield before? Not buying it and it broke my suspense a few times in a way that Valhalla never did).

The villain comparison is one that leans towards Shazam, too - I may not have been delighted with the version of Sivana they chose to use but once you go past that he's far better utilised than Ares was.

 

 

26 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

It seriously might be the best superhero reveal moment ever put on film 

Between that and Spider-verse's 'Wassup Danger' scene for best 'superhero becoming themself' scene for me.



 

 

29 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

especially from someone whose taste I respect.

[A True Kaniggit]

Fun Fact

We had a DC related question in Final Jeopardy today. I can't recall the exact wording, but basically the question was.

"Which Justice League hero would sometimes use the alias 'C. King' "?

Answer

 

Aquaman, of course.

Sadly, only 1 of the 3 contestants got it correct. 

One said Superman and the other said Batman.

[red snow]

19 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said:

Fun Fact

We had a DC related question in Final Jeopardy today. I can't recall the exact wording, but basically the question was.

"Which Justice League hero would sometimes use the alias 'C. King' "?

Answer

  Hide contents

Aquaman, of course.

Sadly, only 1 of the 3 contestants got it correct. 

One said Superman and the other said Batman.

Answer C: King, or "C.King" because the latter through me off thinking it would be A.King

Wonder Woman still wins in terms of being the most iconic of the DC characters currently. I don't think Shazam is a character their shared universe can revolve around (like Iron Man) and I'm not sure he'd work that well in the justice League given his comedy leanings. 

It does feel like the dc movies are getting back on track now that they've freed themselves from the confines of snyder style and making films that fit the characters. I still think Man of steel (i know, sacrilege but I thought it worked - i judt didn't want every DC film to have the same dour tone), Wonder Woman and Shazam have been their only films where I've been entertained and happy with as solid/good films.