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Details on Prequel Pilot Revealed

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I hope they stick to the tv narrative, such as the Night King being made by the CotF etc. I like to keep the show(s) and books separate. I quite like how the show has diverged so much now that we really aren't getting book spoilers any longer. I doubt very much of what we've seen in season 6 will be close to what we'll see in Winds.

I want to keep much of the Long Night story as allegory / myth. The stabbing of Nissa Nissa could have been a real woman or it could have been an asteroid crashing into a moon or it could have been any of various alternatives. Let the tv show be what it is and the books remain their own thing.
I'll watch this as its own thing.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, RedShirt47 said:

I hope they stick to the tv narrative, such as the Night King being made by the CotF etc. I like to keep the show(s) and books separate. I quite like how the show has diverged so much now that we really aren't getting book spoilers any longer. I doubt very much of what we've seen in season 6 will be close to what we'll see in Winds.

I want to keep much of the Long Night story as allegory / myth. The stabbing of Nissa Nissa could have been a real woman or it could have been an asteroid crashing into a moon or it could have been any of various alternatives. Let the tv show be what it is and the books remain their own thing.
I'll watch this as its own thing.

Well, the beauty of this is actually the fact it will be story that might not be told in any other medium. Again, I am now primarily interested who the main characters will be.  

Edited by Rhodan

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On 6/8/2018 at 3:42 PM, the tower of albion said:

Thousands of years before the present series? I'll Pass. (on this pilot)

Me as well, I have no interest in this "era".

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There are some suppositions being made that I don't think will necessarily hold to be true.  We are talking as though GRRM's "history" line for Planetos is written in stone.  The reality is that the vast majority of GoT and ASOIAF fans have a sketchy knowledge of the "history" to begin with so quite frankly almost anything could be put in the plotline of this or any other prequel that doesn't go back much further than Robert's Rebellion.  So when it is said that "this happened before that" or "of course they didn't have this" or "these people were like this" none of that has to be the way that "we" think it should.  Quite frankly I have no idea or knowledge about a lot of this "history".  These shows will have to stand or fall on their own merits as shows.  Unless GRRM holds a tight rein on the development and writing of these shows I can see them more like the Bond films, titles and characters were licensed, plots weren't.  It will all depend on how much latitude GRRM and HBO allow these developers.

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On 6/10/2018 at 1:32 AM, Lordsteve666 said:

Although it could be good I suppose I always get the shivers now when someone says the word “prequel “.......thanks George Lucas. :ack:

I'm getting shivers when someone says the word " sequel" . Thanks Disney. 

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Posted (edited)

Alright, I've done the first writeup for a Game of Thrones Wiki "hub page" on the live-action prequel projects as a whole:
https://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Game_of_Thrones_prequel_projects 

From this hub page, there will be articles on each specific pitch idea that gets ordered to pilot.  The first of which is the one on the Long Night run by Jane Goldman:

https://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Game_of_Thrones:_The_Long_Night

Not much there yet, but the goal was to writeup everything we DO know.  Just letting everyone know that's the place to check for any little updates that might be coming in weeks and months ahead (stuff that slips through major announcements).  

…..Given that there is a lot of speculation but little information, I cited Elio & Linda's own video analysis as an excuse to speculate on the identity of the others.  

I can't speculate on my own on the wiki, but I can "report on" the speculation of authorities (such as the World book co-authors).  No real difference, as everyone pretty much suspects the same prequels - i.e. Targaryen Conquest, Dance of the Dragons.  Obvious enough to anyone who read the books, and paid attention to news announcements.
 

Some news writeups were pretty good on other news sites, some mainstream news sites....(shudder)….last week started making speculation lists of "maybe Robert's Rebellion and Tales of Dunk and Egg!"....even though GRRM very prominently stated they were officially not doing those.  I have no idea how these people have journalism jobs, they do no research.  

….well, not to be too negative, most writeups were pretty good, actually:  Harper's Bazaar, Rotten Tomatoes, Esquire, all had pretty well-informed analysis.  

Still, it's the job of the wiki to keep the masses informed.  The fault was mine for not making a "prequel news hub page" sooner.

Edited by The Dragon Demands

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Posted (edited)

I've been thinking it over and I disagree with the conclusion Elio & Linda reached in their video that "maybe they're just doing the Long Night, which doesn't have a prequel novella to adapt (or even World book chapter) to distance themselves from Martin's actual writings as much as possible".  

I don't think altruistically or negatively of HBO, but purely in terms of Realpolitik.

I mean this sympathetically, as the Long Night announcement baffled me too at first.  But in HINDSIGHT....

The thing that we, as book-readers, sometimes fail to do is take a step back and realize they're trying to appeal to the TV audience.  And Elio & Linda did that in their video a little - pointing out "They wouldn't do First Blackfyre Rebellion because it's never been mentioned in a live-action TV episode".  

Well....if they won't do Blackfyre Rebellion because it hasn't been mentioned enough...what's the inverse of that?  What WOULD they do because it WAS mentioned very often?

Remember how annoying it was when, any time the prequel pitches were being  mentioned in the past year, casual entertainment news sites would suggest "Robert's Rebellion?  The Long Night?"

….well....that's what they know.  

And HBO has actually tried to promote the Targaryen Conquest and Dance of the Dragons.

But the fact remains:  since SEASON ONE, the Long Night is the big past event the TV show has mentioned.  

….I don't think they picked Long Night to "avoid GRRM's work"....I think they simply did it for Name Recognition.

To a general TV audience.  Fundamentally, the Long Night has more name recognition to them than the Dance of the Dragons (even though, admittedly, the TV show did try to hype it up in live-action episode dialogue, as with the Conquest, and put out animated features for both).  

I mean, if they said "We're doing an anthology series using an invented storyline set in the Age of the Hundred Kingdoms about 2,000 years before the Targaryen Conquest".....THAT would be "avoiding Martin's writings".  

And I don't really blame HBO for this so much as fundamental story structure:  how often did they really need to mention the Dance of the Dragons, or the Targaryen Conquest, even, relative to "the Long Night"?

Every casual viewer is at least vaguely aware of it.  

I realize we can't trust HBO anymore, I'm not trying to paint a rosey picture of this.....dear god, how many times did I say "Give Benioff and Weiss a chance, these are just early speed bumps" during Seasons 1 and 2? (shudder)   I defended them.  I defended Cogman.  Their betrayal cuts deep.

But HBO is going to act in their own self-interest, which means their actions will ultimately be pragmatic.  It's just that we have a different frame of reference:  not "what exists to adapt" so much as "what's a name that people who only saw the TV series would come back to watch?"

So combine all these factors together:  I was surprised, we were all surprised, that they picked the Long Night....and a the same time, for the past year, I've been annoyed that the prequel suggestion getting the most buzz from general-entertainment non-books news outlets was, "hey, maybe a Long Night prequel?"  ---- It obviously had the most "Name Recognition" going for it.

Whether this is a GOOD idea is a whole other matter.

But the suggestion that they're trying to avoid writing Martin's works?  I felt that for a while the past week, but the facts of the situation just don't sit right with me.  It seems they just wanted to go with a prequel most relevant to the main TV series, in its form as a TV series, not as books.


My conclusion is simply this:  We were worried HBO picked the Long Night to avoid adapting Martin's actual writings.  But when you think about it...it seems far more plausible that they simply did it for Name Recognition.  So maybe we shouldn't worry just yet.

Meanwhile, in their video, Elio & Linda expressed fears in both directions:  on the one hand, that they just want to re-hash the White Walker storyline from the main TV series, while at the same time, fear that the line about "it's not the story you think you know" means they'll be changing stuff for the sake of changing stuff.  Those might cancel each other out.

….of course, I've seen shows do both before.  Like, comic book reboots that.....needlessly change the characters' motivations and backstories purely for the sake of being shocking, while at the same time, being a fairly repetitive and unoriginal storyline.  We might get a generic re-hash of the White Walker war, combined with ancient Starks who were evil and ancient Boltons who were good (like the Dune prequels...) -- But we're hearing stuff in both directions:  "it will change a lot", "it's too similar" -- the usual prequel fears.  I honestly don't know what to make of it.

So I'm adopting a "wait and see" attitude of "trust, but verify".  I want a fresh start with Jane Goldman, or whoever does the prequel they ultimately pick.  The era of D&D and Cogman bullshitting us and stonewalling their own fanbase need to end - compare with Star Wars and Star Trek writers & producers, who regularly answer basic questions via Twitter or Reddit Q&A.  

but I digress....

The point was just I was relieved to consider "They probably did this for Name Recognition more than avoiding GRRM". 


 

Edited by The Dragon Demands

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I'm stoked as hell about this. I like the idea of exploring something that will likely never be visited in print. They will have a fairly broad license when it comes to content, with only a bare-bones set of plot points to worry about.

Anything that doesn't 100% jive with what we've read in the books or seen in the show up to this point isn't too bothersome either, because you could write it off as a millennia-long game of telephone skewing the facts of what really happened.

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Posted (edited)

Jane Goldman really isn't much of an improvement, in my opinion. I wasn't a fan of her take on the X-Men, thought Stardust sounded interesting but was ultimately pretty boring and hate the Kingsmen. I'm glad it's not a show based on The Conquest, The Dance of The Dragons or The First Blackfyre Rebellion though, as I don't have any faith in her being able to tackle the complexity and depth of some of those characters, or the intricate subplots. 

Edited by It'sAlwaysWinterInScotland

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