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LF, Sansa and the Vale


Clegane'sPup

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I’m not going to participate much in this thread. It is basically for a poster who expressed an interest in Sansa, LF and the Vale.

LF had an interest in Sansa since at least the time of Joff’s nameday feast when Sansa intervened with Dontos.

A Clash of Kings - Sansa I      The king studied her a moment. "Perhaps you're not so stupid as Mother says." He raised his voice. "Did you hear my lady, Dontos? From this day on, you're my new fool. You can sleep with Moon Boy and dress in motley."     Ser Dontos, sobered by his near brush with death, crawled to his knees. "Thank you, Your Grace. And you, my lady. Thank you."/

In SoS LF tells Sansa that Dontos was his catspaw.

A Storm of Swords - Sansa V      "But he saved me."     "He sold you for a promise of ten thousand dragons. Your disappearance will make them suspect you in Joffrey's death. The gold cloaks will hunt, and the eunuch will jingle his purse. Dontos . . . well, you heard him. He sold you for gold, and when he'd drunk it up he would have sold you again. A bag of dragons buys a man's silence for a while, but a well-placed quarrel buys it forever." He smiled sadly. "All he did he did at my behest. I dared not befriend you openly. When I heard how you saved his life at Joff's tourney, I knew he would be the perfect catspaw."  

In between those two books a lot happens. A note about a meeting, the hairnet, the promises to get Sansa out of K, Sansa set aside, Tyrell’s offering her Wylis, marriage to Tyrion, death of Joffrey, etc.

LF now has Sansa Stark Lannister (Alayne), a fugitive from the Throne living in the Vale. LF makes a statement that he may need remove Cersei sooner than he anticipated.

A Feast for Crows - Alayne I      The mention of the queen's name made her stiffen. "She's not kind. She scares me. If she should learn where I am—"      "—I might have to remove her from the game sooner than I'd planned. Provided she does not remove herself first." Petyr teased her with a little smile. "In the game of thrones, even the humblest pieces can have wills of their own. Sometimes they refuse to make the moves you've planned for them. Mark that well, Alayne. It's a lesson that Cersei Lannister still has yet to learn. Now, don't you have some duties to perform?"   She did indeed./

Moving along to LF’s gift to Sansa:

A Feast for Crows - Alayne II      Petyr arched an eyebrow. "When Robert dies. Our poor brave Sweetrobin is such a sickly boy, it is only a matter of time. When Robert dies, Harry the Heir becomes Lord Harrold, Defender of the Vale and Lord of the Eyrie. Jon Arryn's bannermen will never love me, nor our silly, shaking Robert, but they will love their Young Falcon . . . and when they come together for his wedding, and you come out with your long auburn hair, clad in a maiden's cloak of white and grey with a direwolf emblazoned on the back . . . why, every knight in the Vale will pledge his sword to win you back your birthright. So those are your gifts from me, my sweet Sansa . . . Harry, the Eyrie, and Winterfell. /

To which Sansa replies:

A Feast for Crows - Alayne II      "A marriage . . ." Her throat tightened. She did not want to wed again, not now, perhaps not ever. "I do not . . . I cannot marry. Father, I . . ." Alayne looked to the door, to make certain it was closed. "I am married," she whispered. "You know."     Petyr put a finger to her lips to silence her. "The dwarf wed Ned Stark's daughter, not mine. Be that as it may. This is only a betrothal. The marriage must needs wait until Cersei is done and Sansa's safely widowed. And you must meet the boy and win his approval. Lady Waynwood will not make him marry against his will, she was quite firm on that."/

Supposedly LF’s interest in Sansa started in CoK. LF did a lot of wheeling and dealing to get Sansa to the Vale. What is LF up to?  Is Sansa safe?

 

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1 hour ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Supposedly LF’s interest in Sansa started in CoK. LF did a lot of wheeling and dealing to get Sansa to the Vale. What is LF up to?  Is Sansa safe?

He first showed interest in her at the Hand's tourney in AGOT, when he commented to her that she had the Tully look.  I think he considers her to be his protege, and most likely his future wife, a sort of Catelyn substitute.

Sansa is not exactly safe, but then she never has been, at least since her father's arrest.  I think she will learn what she can from Littlefinger, and then take him down, or out entirely, once she realizes what he has done, and how much of a threat he really is.  

Let's face it, the man's got a closet full of skeletons, any one of which could come tumbling out, probably at the worst possible moment.  Between the dagger affair, his betrayal of Ned at his arrest, his treatment of Jeyne Poole, her father's execution (probably instigated by LF), his (probable) poisoning of Sweetrobin, the virtual certainty he is planning to kill Harry the Heir, and who knows what else, something will come out that seriously pisses her off and makes her realize what a rotter he really is.

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LF has had an interest in Sansa from the moment he saw her. And now that he has her in his grasp he thinks that she will become loyal to him, be his lover, his protege, his wife. But unbeknownst to him she is much smarter than he thinks and has clocked his interest in her as sexual and notes not to trust him fully. She wants to go along with his plan as it seems the best way to regain WF and her identity.  So she is doing so for now. We don't know how long that will continue. But for now she is.  Howether she isn't just blithely doing as he says and thinking that he's her hero. She is also manipulating him via subtlety playing on his desire for her and playing the innocent naive girl she see's that he wants her to be; because that strokes his ego.  

Eventually LF will go north with Sansa, and I doubt it will be as he has told her it will. I think Harry will die, and That the motivation to take her north will come from a power vacuum once Stannis defeats the Boltons. But dies and leaves WF empty. In his hubris he'll take her and the vale knights north, with Robert as she will have his ear herself. And she can say hey I want to go get my castle back will you help? Once they are there though I think Sansa will learn of his crimes against her family and against Jeyne. And then she will have him arrested and behead him. 

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20 hours ago, Nevets said:

He first showed interest in her at the Hand's tourney in AGOT, when he commented to her that she had the Tully look.  I think he considers her to be his protege, and most likely his future wife, a sort of Catelyn substitute.

Sansa is not exactly safe, but then she never has been, at least since her father's arrest.  I think she will learn what she can from Littlefinger, and then take him down, or out entirely, once she realizes what he has done, and how much of a threat he really is.  

Let's face it, the man's got a closet full of skeletons, any one of which could come tumbling out, probably at the worst possible moment.  Between the dagger affair, his betrayal of Ned at his arrest, his treatment of Jeyne Poole, her father's execution (probably instigated by LF), his (probable) poisoning of Sweetrobin, the virtual certainty he is planning to kill Harry the Heir, and who knows what else, something will come out that seriously pisses her off and makes her realize what a rotter he really is.

:agree:LF took an interest the first moment he laid eyes on Sansa. I'm sure she looks a whole lot like Catelyn at that age.

I'm curious as to how the Harry the H plan will play out. Mayhaps a wedding but no bedding, which would give Sansa nominal control of the Vale for the time being while still leaving her maidenhead ripe for the plucking once the coast is clear for her to declare herself publicly again?

But, yeah, LF is walking ever deeper onto rotten ice, and he has braziers on his shoes.

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8 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

No doubt, @Nevets and @Clegane'sPup  when considering Littlefinger and Sansa, you have to begin with their first interaction in Game. And when considering his motivations, we have to keep in mind that Petyr hoped to wed her himself. 

My pc crashed. I blame MS.

But yeah I seem to remember LF offered to marry Sansa and was snubbed.

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Littlefinger's obsession and involvement with Tullys females will be his downfall. Littlefinger will be so distracted by Sansa and his plans for her that he won't see Strong Robin grow from a weak eyass to a fearsome falcon. Then Robert Arryn will avenge his parents and save his lady love Sansa from Baelish's plots.

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LF in my opinion is a bit sleazy considering one of his lines of business. He's had his eye on Cat's daughter. Sansa, in story is now  dependent upon LF for her safety and well being.

From the opening post quotes it appears to me LF is pimping Sansa. Telling her all the things she wants to hear. The girl is 13 years of age.

On one hand he tells Sansa he's gonna give her a gift. Then with the other hand he tells her she must wait until Cersei is done (?) and Sansa is widowed.

Is there anyone in the Vale that is going to intervene on Sansa's behalf when it becomes common knowledge that Alayne is Sansa Stark Lannister?

 

 

 

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20 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

LF in my opinion is a bit sleazy considering one of his lines of business. He's had his eye on Cat's daughter. Sansa, in story is now  dependent upon LF for her safety and well being.

From the opening post quotes it appears to me LF is pimping Sansa. Telling her all the things she wants to hear. The girl is 13 years of age.

On one hand he tells Sansa he's gonna give her a gift. Then with the other hand he tells her she must wait until Cersei is done (?) and Sansa is widowed.

Is there anyone in the Vale that is going to intervene on Sansa's behalf when it becomes common knowledge that Alayne is Sansa Stark Lannister?

 

 

 

Sansa disappears, and suddenly LF turns up with a bastard daughter Sansa’s age, and Catelyn is very aware of LF’s interest in her and Sansa’s resemblance to her. Stoneheart is smart, and it’s unbelievable to me that Stoneheart isn’t investigating LF’s mysterious bastard daughter.

LF is now the legal uncle of the Stark kids thus has legal claim to their guardianship in Edmure’s and the Blackfish’s absence. Where Sansa is concerned, throw Tyrion her husband over LF, and Jaime as Lord of Casterly Rock in there too. Jaime effectively resigned from the KG when he burned Cersei’s letter and releasing KG members when they no longer are able to perform was established with Barristan. Whether he realizes it yet or not, Jaime just became Lord of Casterly Rock. I don’t think Stoneheart could turn down having him working for her and he’s the only one who can claim Sansa from LF with any legal authority until Tyrion, Edmure, or the Blackfish turn up.

Tywin also upped Tyrion's promises of compensation to the Wildlings meaning the debt would now be Jaime's so the Wildlings would have a strong incentive to help Jaime out here. Not to mention that they were impoverished and starving when it was still summer and before any wars. Their situation must now be exponentially worse.

 

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I think Harrenhal is part of LF's plan which he is keeping very close to the chest. While LF is no doubt completely ok with the offer of Harrenhal, I think it's the God's Eye and the Isle of Faces that he really wants. I'm not sure why. Maybe the grey-green sentinel trees mentioned so often in the North and LF's grey-green eyes is a clue?

Note how the CotF and Isle of Faces are vaguely alluded to when LF is offered Harrenhal. While LF is completely open about his plans for Robert, Harry, and Sansa getting both the Vale and Winterfell as the OP quoted, note how LF has to cycle through answers about Harrenhal finally having to resort to changing the subject when none of them are satisfactory for her.

ADWD Bran II

That was not Arya's voice, nor any child's. It was a woman's voice, high and sweet, with a strange music in it like none that he had ever heard and a sadness that he thought might break his heart. Bran squinted, to see her better. It was a girl, but smaller than Arya, her skin dappled like a doe's beneath a cloak of leaves. Her eyes were queer—large and liquid, gold and green, slitted like a cat's eyes. No one has eyes like that. Her hair was a tangle of brown and red and gold, autumn colors, with vines and twigs and withered flowers woven through it.

ADWD Bran III

Though the men of the Seven Kingdoms might call them the children of the forest, Leaf and her people were far from childlike. Little wise men of the forest would have been closer. They were small compared to men, as a wolf is smaller than a direwolf. That does not mean it is a pup. They had nut-brown skin, dappled like a deer's with paler spots, and large ears that could hear things that no man could hear. Their eyes were big too, great golden cat's eyes that could see down passages where a boy's eyes saw only blackness. Their hands had only three fingers and a thumb, with sharp black claws instead of nails.

AGOT Bran VII

"But some twelve thousand years ago, the First Men appeared from the east, crossing the Broken Arm of Dorne before it was broken. They came with bronze swords and great leathern shields, riding horses. No horse had ever been seen on this side of the narrow sea. No doubt the children were as frightened by the horses as the First Men were by the faces in the trees. As the First Men carved out holdfasts and farms, they cut down the faces and gave them to the fire. Horror-struck, the children went to war. The old songs say that the greenseers used dark magics to make the seas rise and sweep away the land, shattering the Arm, but it was too late to close the door. The wars went on until the earth ran red with blood of men and children both, but more children than men, for men were bigger and stronger, and wood and stone and obsidian make a poor match for bronze. Finally the wise of both races prevailed, and the chiefs and heroes of the First Men met the greenseers and wood dancers amidst the weirwood groves of a small island in the great lake called Gods Eye.

"There they forged the Pact. The First Men were given the coastlands, the high plains and bright meadows, the mountains and bogs, but the deep woods were to remain forever the children's, and no more weirwoods were to be put to the axe anywhere in the realm. So the gods might bear witness to the signing, every tree on the island was given a face, and afterward, the sacred order of green men was formed to keep watch over the Isle of Faces.

 

 

ACOK Tyrion IV

"So," Lord Petyr continued after a pause, utterly unabashed, "what's in your pot for me?"

"Harrenhal."

It was interesting to watch his face. Lord Petyr's father had been the smallest of small lords, his grandfather a landless hedge knight; by birth, he held no more than a few stony acres on the windswept shore of the Fingers. Harrenhal was one of the richest plums in the Seven Kingdoms, its lands broad and rich and fertile, its great castle as formidable as any in the realm . . . and so large as to dwarf Riverrun, where Petyr Baelish had been fostered by House Tully, only to be brusquely expelled when he dared raise his sights to Lord Hoster's daughter.

Littlefinger took a moment to adjust the drape of his cape, but Tyrion had seen the flash of hunger in those sly cat's eyes. I have him, he knew. "Harrenhal is cursed," Lord Petyr said after a moment, trying to sound bored.

"Then raze it to the ground and build anew to suit yourself. You'll have no lack of coin. I mean to make you liege lord of the Trident. These river lords have proven they cannot be trusted. Let them do you fealty for their lands."

"Even the Tullys?"

"If there are any Tullys left when we are done."

Littlefinger looked like a boy who had just taken a furtive bite from a honeycomb. He was trying to watch for bees, but the honey was so sweet. "Harrenhal and all its lands and incomes," he mused. "With a stroke, you'd make me one of the greatest lords in the realm. Not that I'm ungrateful, my lord, but—why?"

"You served my sister well in the matter of the succession."

"As did Janos Slynt. On whom this same castle of Harrenhal was quite recently bestowed—only to be snatched away when he was no longer of use."

Tyrion laughed. "You have me, my lord. What can I say? I need you to deliver the Lady Lysa. I did not need Janos Slynt." He gave a crooked shrug. "I'd sooner have you seated in Harrenhal than Renly seated on the Iron Throne. What could be plainer?"

 

AFFC Alayne I

"Oh, much of it, that's true. Not all, however. I am well loved in Gulltown, and have some lordly friends of mine own as well. Grafton, Lynderly, Lyonel Corbray . . . though I'll grant you, they are no match for the Lords Declarant. Still, where would you have us go, Alayne? Back to my mighty stronghold on the Fingers?"

She had thought about that. "Joffrey gave you Harrenhal. You are lord in your own right there."

"By title. I needed a great seat to marry Lysa, and the Lannisters were not about to grant me Casterly Rock."

"Yes, but the castle is yours."

"Ah, and what a castle it is. Cavernous halls and ruined towers, ghosts and draughts, ruinous to heat, impossible to garrison . . . and there's that small matter of a curse."

"Curses are only in songs and stories."

That seemed to amuse him. "Has someone made a song about Gregor Clegane dying of a poisoned spear thrust? Or about the sellsword before him, whose limbs Ser Gregor removed a joint at a time? That one took the castle from Ser Amory Lorch, who received it from Lord Tywin. A bear killed one, your dwarf the other. Lady Whent's died as well, I hear. Lothstons, Strongs, Harroways, Strongs . . . Harrenhal has withered every hand to touch it."

"Then give it to Lord Frey."

Petyr laughed. "Perhaps I shall. Or better still, to our sweet Cersei. Though I should not speak harshly of her, she is sending me some splendid tapestries. Isn't that kind of her?"

The mention of the queen's name made her stiffen. "She's not kind. She scares me. If she should learn where I am—"

"—I might have to remove her from the game sooner than I'd planned. Provided she does not remove herself first." Petyr teased her with a little smile. "In the game of thrones, even the humblest pieces can have wills of their own. Sometimes they refuse to make the moves you've planned for them. Mark that well, Alayne. It's a lesson that Cersei Lannister still has yet to learn. Now, don't you have some duties to perform?"

 

 

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On 6/13/2018 at 6:47 PM, Chris Mormont said:

A Littlefinger POV chapter would be great to finally learn what his ultimate plan is, if he actually has one.  

Thats where hes different to  varys as lfs plan as such  is just to secure more and more power! .HIs intel network etc means he has always known of things like harry that could benefit him but doesnt have one set plan in mind ..hes flexible 

His plan is entirely self centred so he can decide things on the spot  such as the knife ruse,varys by contrast has a clearly established plan and cant move unless he knows how things will affect that or what his enemy is planning hence he doesnt expose him there and then. The offer for example he made to ned is genuine i feel and had ned take it another hand would have died much later on and hed have moved in on cat to 'console'her

Now hes in the vale moving pieces into place to secure there ,bringing as we saw capable mercs to his side should things get violent  but itl be his obsession with sansa thatl allow her to blindside him 

Hes been sort of grooming her (in both ways) as hes no great knight and wealth would not impress a  girl winterfell hes been showing how clever he is and how the game is played as his way 'into 'her from day 1 ..thatl come back to haunt him

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18 hours ago, Lollygag said:

Sansa disappears, and suddenly LF turns up with a bastard daughter Sansa’s age, and Catelyn is very aware of LF’s interest in her and Sansa’s resemblance to her. Stoneheart is smart, and it’s unbelievable to me that Stoneheart isn’t investigating LF’s mysterious bastard daughter.

Stoneheart is in the Riverlands. Does she know much about what's happening in the Vale?

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11 hours ago, FictionIsntReal said:

Stoneheart is in the Riverlands. Does she know much about what's happening in the Vale?

Good question.

a bit of stuffies going on--- Brie while, bitten and chewed, is in the possession of LSH. Brie and her companions are hanged/hung. Brie was given a choice and she choose "sword" ---- Brie then ends up in Jaime's camp--- another cliffhamger.

Brie was on a search for Sansa, a long tedious journey.

Brie knows because Jaime told her, Arya, the one that the Bolton's have, is fake.

To answer the question does LSH  know what is happening in the Vale ----No.

FFS I dunna think martin knows who knows what is happening.

Where did the Blackfish swim off to?

Did BF end up going to where Robb sent Mormont & that other dude, somewhere in the swamp where Howland will find them.

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1 hour ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Good question.

a bit of stuffies going on--- Brie while, bitten and chewed, is in the possession of LSH. Brie and her companions are hanged/hung. Brie was given a choice and she choose "sword" ---- Brie then ends up in Jaime's camp--- another cliffhamger.

Brie was on a search for Sansa, a long tedious journey.

Brie knows because Jaime told her, Arya, the one that the Bolton's have, is fake.

To answer the question does LSH  know what is happening in the Vale ----No.

FFS I dunna think martin knows who knows what is happening.

Where did the Blackfish swim off to?

Did BF end up going to where Robb sent Mormont & that other dude, somewhere in the swamp where Howland will find them.

The BF could only have stayed in Riverrun or joined up with the Brotherhood at a pre disclosed location.  He simply would not have survived otherwise.  He is in his 60's and would have had to submerge completely in near freezing water, then remain in said near freezing water for some time to get past the encampment.  Being fully soaked and surrounded by hostile men searching for him, he would have no horse and wouldn't be able to start a fire or he would be caught by his pursuers.

Thus I believe he either hid in Riverrun in a hidey hole like the Conningtons did in The Griffin Reborn chapter.  This would allow him to potentially open a gate for the brotherhood at an opportune moment.  Or, given the fact that Jeyne is in the prologue, and thus the pov will likely die, he could also be with the BWB and they could attack the group.  If he met up with a few men with an extra horse and dry clothes a few miles down the river, he could have survived, although it would still have been rough.

Edit:  Since Edmure was alone with Tom O Sevens, it is likely they talked and could have come up with either plan.

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6 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

The BF could only have stayed in Riverrun or joined up with the Brotherhood at a pre disclosed location.  He simply would not have survived otherwise.  He is in his 60's and would have had to submerge completely in near freezing water, then remain in said near freezing water for some time to get past the encampment.  Being fully soaked and surrounded by hostile men searching for him, he would have no horse and wouldn't be able to start a fire or he would be caught by his pursuers.

Thus I believe he either hid in Riverrun in a hidey hole like the Conningtons did in The Griffin Reborn chapter.  This would allow him to potentially open a gate for the brotherhood at an opportune moment.  Or, given the fact that Jeyne is in the prologue, and thus the pov will likely die, he could also be with the BWB and they could attack the group.  If he met up with a few men with an extra horse and dry clothes a few miles down the river, he could have survived, although it would still have been rough.

Edit:  Since Edmure was alone with Tom O Sevens, it is likely they talked and could have come up with either plan.

Doesnt Jaime at some point say they are surrounded by BwB men? Not necessarily the core group but their supporters? I’ll need to find the quote, because it may not even Ben at Riverrun he thinks this. But if it was, Blackfish getting away becomes much more plausible 

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5 hours ago, Helenas Musikautomat said:

Doesnt Jaime at some point say they are surrounded by BwB men? Not necessarily the core group but their supporters? I’ll need to find the quote, because it may not even Ben at Riverrun he thinks this. But if it was, Blackfish getting away becomes much more plausible 

I believe I remember something about that, my point was basically that people have come up with a lot theories about him travelling alone to the Vale or the north etc that just don't add up.  He would need help if he left the castle.

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12 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

The BF could only have stayed in Riverrun or joined up with the Brotherhood at a pre disclosed location.  He simply would not have survived otherwise.  He is in his 60's and would have had to submerge completely in near freezing water, then remain in said near freezing water for some time to get past the encampment.  Being fully soaked and surrounded by hostile men searching for him, he would have no horse and wouldn't be able to start a fire or he would be caught by his pursuers.

Thus I believe he either hid in Riverrun in a hidey hole like the Conningtons did in The Griffin Reborn chapter.  This would allow him to potentially open a gate for the brotherhood at an opportune moment.  Or, given the fact that Jeyne is in the prologue, and thus the pov will likely die, he could also be with the BWB and they could attack the group.  If he met up with a few men with an extra horse and dry clothes a few miles down the river, he could have survived, although it would still have been rough.

Edit:  Since Edmure was alone with Tom O Sevens, it is likely they talked and could have come up with either plan.

18 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

I believe I remember something about that, my point was basically that people have come up with a lot theories about him travelling alone to the Vale or the north etc that just don't add up.  He would need help if he left the castle.

If I remember correctly, there is a force of roughly 600 Northmen that Roose Bolton left behind on the Trident before the Red Wedding under Ser Ronnel Stout and Kyle Condon who would most likely be very loyal to Robb/Edmure.  We don't know what happened to them, and it's possible they are dead/captured by the Mountain or melted away, but they are a definite possibility to aid the Blackfish.  Likewise you do have the Brotherhood and you know Edmure and Tom O Sevens were able to meet alone, although I wonder if their past history would make it unlikely they could cooperate (Tom O Sevens came up with the "floppy fish" song making fun of Edmure for his ahem, issues, and Edmure seems pretty unwilling to forgive him :D).

I think Jeyne being in the prologue is a good indication that the Blackfish/Brotherhood/maybe Northmen will most likely attack Ser Forley Prester who was in charge of escorting Edmure and Jeyne Westerling to Casterly Rock.  A decent bet that Prester is the prologue POV I think.

The only other thing I could see is Blackfish going North to either Greywater Watch or the Wall (the exchange with Jaime about Jon may have been a ruse as we know the two Tully men are already headed to the Wall as well) but I think these are much less likely.  I also can't see him going back to the Vale.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Tagganaro said:

If I remember correctly, there is a force of roughly 600 Northmen that Roose Bolton left behind on the Trident before the Red Wedding under Ser Ronnel Stout and Kyle Condon who would most likely be very loyal to Robb/Edmure.  We don't know what happened to them, and it's possible they are dead/captured by the Mountain or melted away, but they are a definite possibility to aid the Blackfish.  Likewise you do have the Brotherhood and you know Edmure and Tom O Sevens were able to meet alone, although I wonder if their past history would make it unlikely they could cooperate (Tom O Sevens came up with the "floppy fish" song making fun of Edmure for his ahem, issues, and Edmure seems pretty unwilling to forgive him :D).

I think Jeyne being in the prologue is a good indication that the Blackfish/Brotherhood/maybe Northmen will most likely attack Ser Forley Prester who was in charge of escorting Edmure and Jeyne Westerling to Casterly Rock.  A decent bet that Prester is the prologue POV I think.

The only other thing I could see is Blackfish going North to either Greywater Watch or the Wall (the exchange with Jaime about Jon may have been a ruse as we know the two Tully men are already headed to the Wall as well) but I think these are much less likely.  I also can't see him going back to the Vale.

 

 

I don't know if the George has ever acknowledged a pattern, but if it is a pattern then the POV should be a maester, or maester affiliated, and should involve some sort of magic.  It's kind of confusing because I'm not sure what magic could be involved, but a maester being in the convoy seems likely.

If the 600 northern joined the BWB, then they would have the strength to attack the convoy, especially if some other riverlords gave some strength to them as well.   I believe Prestor has 400 men, or was it 800?  I know it got doubled again at the last minute.

Either way Edmure should die, which would make Sansa lady of Riverrun to anyone who doesn't know that Bran and Rickon are alive, such as LF.

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On 6/18/2018 at 10:15 AM, FictionIsntReal said:

Stoneheart is in the Riverlands. Does she know much about what's happening in the Vale?

Lysa is her sister and she dies right after her marriage to LF. And while Catelyn and Lysa didn't exactly part on great terms, Lysa's questionable death certainly put the Vale on Stoneheart's radar. Stoneheart's kinda had it with her family being killed. And everyone would hear about a major power change in any of the major houses. From there, she finds out about LF's mystery bastard daughter and it goes from there.

I think the question is how much she knows, not whether she knows.

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