Darth Richard II Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 God, I really, really feel like I've just gone complete insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seli Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 36 minutes ago, Vin said: You can push that narrative but I don't have to buy it . Agree to disagree. That is the problem with facts. We can disagree with them, but that doesn't make them go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamMe90 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Is this Simultaneously Change Your Username and Avatar Week or something? Da fuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vin Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Selibration Srbija! said: That is the problem with facts. We can disagree with them, but that doesn't make them go away. That's what passes for facts these days ? Ideologue drivel ? A friend once sent me This to make fun of my politics . I'm beginning to think she might have had a point . This "new left" is leaving it's own people behind . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 It's impossible for me to not hear Ron Burgundy's voice when Vin retreats behind the "agree to disagree" defense. What with the willful obliviousness, penchant for dumb open-ended questions to distract from the latest schooling he got, and bothsidesism, I wonder if this is Garovorkin putting in a little more effort on grammar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said: It's impossible for me to not hear Ron Burgundy's voice when Vin retreats behind the "agree to disagree" defense. What with the willful obliviousness, penchant for dumb open-ended questions to distract from the latest schooling he got, and bothsidesism, I wonder if this is Garovorkin putting in a little more effort on grammar. I had that thought too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said: I had that thought too. Don't forget the disingenuous "I'm really on the left, but let me talk a bunch about how the left is losing mediocre white men, while I gloss over and ignore the sins of the right." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 4 hours ago, DMBouazizi said: Ok so you're really into how important Gorbachev is. Chill the fuck out, it's a discussion board. I think one thing the Democratic party, or at least liberals/progressives in general, has to start doing is stop talking down to this group of voters. I remember shortly after Obama's infamous "cling to their guns and religion" statement I was talking to one of my best friends at the time, and he was a guy that wasn't particularly interested in politics and grew up in Hollidaysburg, PA (incidentally, this is the same friend I mentioned a few months ago that wrote a draft of Duncan Jones' Mute). He brought the statement up, and I was like "c'mon, it was stupid to say but he's right." He agreed, but was still offended by it. That's always stuck with me because it shows how liberals are perceived by the group of voters that's swing is partly responsible (along with the depressed turnout of certain solidly left demos) for electing Trump. More and more, and especially as the Dems verge further to the left and appeal to the highly educated, the party is looked at as telling anyone who votes GOP must be racist, stupid, or both. Basically, the party is viewed as a Bill Maher panel replete and dominated by condescending eggheads. And that perception has been tactfully nurtured by the Drudges, Breitbarts, and Hannitys of the world over the past 30 years. How do we fix that? I don't know, I'm one of the eggheads. But what I do know is if someone like that frequented these threads, that perception would only be reinforced. I have a similar example, although it's not my own. During the campaign, a journalist from The Economist (can't remember the name) was going to Trump rallies and talking with average folks. He would ask them why they supported Trump and he would get what he described as nonsensical push back. He would start getting specific about policies and point how most of what Trump is saying is flatly untrue and/or unworkable, and one time a guy just blurted at him "What, do you think we're stupid?" He said he stopped, paused and the only answer he could think of was "Yes." Obviously he lost any chances of converting the person in that moment, but he reflected on it with the panel and asked what else he could have done. Nobody had a workable answer, because you'd either have to lie or massage the persons ego. I agree with you that liberals have a tendency to talk down to people, specifically conservatives, but what else do you do when you know you're right and you have the arguments and sometimes data to back it up? You can soften your tone, sure, but in today's hyper-partisanship era, that's really only going to get you so much further, and I doubt it would be enough to change someone's mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seli Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, Vin said: That's what passes for facts these days ? Ideologue drivel ? A friend once sent me This to make fun of my politics . I'm beginning to think she might have had a point . This "new left" is leaving it's own people behind . No; facts. That second bit is a big problem world-wide. Reagan, Thatcher and their kin managed to disrupt politics and policies to such a level that normal representation of the poor in society has been destroyed, and has been replaced for the (inherently racist) dream of a past that never was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 2 hours ago, butterbumps! said: I know a lot of Trump voters hold the position you just described: "I'll show those evil liberals who's racist by casting a vote for this racist!" First off-- I'm not even sure how many of these people have actually even been called racist or whatever directly. I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of these people feel victimized by liberals because Fox News tells them these things. And voting for a racist is a fairly unwise way to prove one isn't racist. That's not exactly what they're doing. It's more of a troll move to piss off liberals. I know a lot of people who specifically voted for Trump because they don't like liberals and knew it would drive us up a wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 13 minutes ago, IamMe90 said: Is this Simultaneously Change Your Username and Avatar Week or something? Da fuck. WORLD CUP MOTHER******!!! England will crush all you swine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitttenGuard Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 8 minutes ago, Vin said: That's what passes for facts these days ? Ideologue drivel ? A friend once sent me This to make fun of my politics . I'm beginning to think she might have had a point . This "new left" is leaving it's own people behind . Stating the U.S has a very long history of White Supremacy is not ideological drivel but accurate history regardless of how much you believe it is now the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vin Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Oooo denouncement time ! Everyone is free to Think as they like and getting called names by some people online isn't anything , so again no skin off my back . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetPea Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, TheKitttenGuard said: Stating the U.S has a very long history of White Supremacy is not ideological drivel but accurate history regardless of how much you believe it is now the past. That wasn't the claim. The racism in the history of the US is obvious. The claim was that America is built on systematic racism based on white supremacy, implying it still is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seli Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, SweetPea said: That wasn't the claim. The racism in the history of the US is obvious. The claim was that America is built on systematic racism based on white supremacy, implying it still is. It is the basis in so many things, from the second amendment, to the trail of tears, to the redlining that prevented minorities to build up generational capital. Regardless of whether the USA is still marred by systemic racism (and a look at the justice system and the current president make that quite likely), its bones and structure are literally determined by its past, while there have only been minor adjustments made at the surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 16 hours ago, Vin said: PS: again I do not see the need for name calling . You're right. Name-calling while trying to persuade people is counter-productive, like blocking roads while protesting! 17 hours ago, Vin said: Lol sorry I'm not revolutionary enough for you comrade Hrm. 8 minutes ago, SweetPea said: That wasn't the claim. The racism in the history of the US is obvious. The claim was that America is built on systematic racism based on white supremacy, implying it still is. When did America stop being built on systematic racism? When it elected a half-black President and half the country flipped out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukle Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 11 minutes ago, SweetPea said: That wasn't the claim. The racism in the history of the US is obvious. The claim was that America is built on systematic racism based on white supremacy, implying it still is. From a non-American perspective, it's pretty hard to defend how the US Supreme Court just upheld Ohio's voting laws, which allow them to remove voting rights from mostly ethnic minorities. What the hell?! In normal civilised nations, the idea that you can remove voting rights is considered a violation of human rights. Maybe you should give your ballot papers guns? That way the government would defend it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 11 minutes ago, SweetPea said: That wasn't the claim. The racism in the history of the US is obvious. The claim was that America is built on systematic racism based on white supremacy, implying it still is. It's fair to say that it still is because we've never properly addressed it. America will be marred by racism until it can finally be honest with itself and admit it's sins and work to rectify them. We're not even at the one year anniversary of Charlottesville, an event where a bunch of Neo-Nazis fought to keep up a statue to honor a treasonous villain who betrayed his country to fight to defend the institution of slavery. Those statues also serve a secondary purpose of intimidating African Americans, as was their purpose when they were erected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitttenGuard Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 15 minutes ago, SweetPea said: That wasn't the claim. The racism in the history of the US is obvious. The claim was that America is built on systematic racism based on white supremacy, implying it still is. America was built in systematic Racism based on White Supremacy is historical accurate and not ideological drivel. Your semantics statisfied? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, Yukle said: In normal civilised nations, the idea that you can remove voting rights is considered a violation of human rights. Maybe you should give your ballot papers guns? That way the government would defend it. To me it's insane that you're not automatically registered on the day you're old enough to vote. But hey, I want everyone to vote, because I know my side will almost always win. If you don't want people to vote because you're afraid of losing, you're playing the wrong game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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