US Politics: Sit Up Straight and Show Some Respect

[Regular John Umber]

8 hours ago, Martell Spy said:

Listen to Children Who’ve Just Been Separated From Their Parents at the Border

ProPublica has obtained audio from inside a U.S. Customs and Border Protection facility, in which children can be heard wailing as an agent jokes, “We have an orchestra here.”

https://www.propublica.org/article/children-separated-from-parents-border-patrol-cbp-trump-immigration-policy

 

 

 As a non-American, who as a child watched World War 2 movies with Americans saving the world, and saw the live coverage of Gulf 1 as an America-led coalition bravely saved the small country being bullied by the big country, I am at a loss right now. I feel like my hero has died and come back to life as a brain-eating zombie. Please tell me you guys can come back from this.

[Wethers]

11 minutes ago, Regular John Umber said:

 

 As a non-American, who as a child watched World War 2 movies with Americans saving the world, and saw the live coverage of Gulf 1 as an America-led coalition bravely saved the small country being bullied by the big country, I am at a loss right now. I feel like my hero has died and come back to life as a brain-eating zombie. Please tell me you guys can come back from this.

If you think think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.

[Relic]

30 minutes ago, Regular John Umber said:

Please tell me you guys can come back from this.

This has been a long time coming. I think "liberal" minded Americans need to accept that fact that a not so small portion of our population would gladly murder us to get their way. This is going to get much worse before it gets any better. 

[Morpheus]

Tump’s approval is only going up, we are fucked.

[SweetPea]

4 hours ago, lokisnow said:

So democrats need to commit to a policy of Detrumpification that if they are ever so lucky to win an election again they can systematically and thoroughly de trumpify all systems of government and purge his corruption from everywhere. Like as benign as disbanding trumps space force but afundamentally focused in the many much more serious damages and evil he’s wrought everywhere he’s touched.

Let nothing he has been done be declared good or allowed to endure. Totally eradicate everything he has implemented, it all could be infected.

When policies as profoundly evil as the family separations are enthusiastically supported by members of team Republican because they are Trump policies and evil is okay if Trump is for it, then those republicans are endorsing evil as completely as the members of the nazi party did in their support of that regime.

Germany went through a whole denazification process, we need to be ready to implement detrumpification because nothing else is adequate anymore in the face of this evil.

oh and trials and convictions for crimes against humanity. No more obama era amnesty for the republican war criminals, we are going to have to finally do something about the evil doers on the other side of the political aisle, for the Good of humanity.

Can't tell if you're serious or joking.

[Ran]

9 minutes ago, Morpheus said:

Tump’s approval is only going up, we are fucked.

Bear in mind that the tracking polls lag events. His approval went up because of the Singapore summit and the spin that it was a great moment in history, a big success, etc. The recognition that it wasn't either,  and the ramping up of attention on the family separation policy (which is broadly unpopular, and even his base is conflicted), will certainly have an impact in polls that are gathered later in the week and the week after.

[Morpheus]

16 minutes ago, Switzeran said:

Bear in mind that the tracking polls lag events. His approval went up because of the Singapore summit and the spin that it was a great moment in history, a big success, etc. The recognition that it wasn't either,  and the ramping up of attention on the family separation policy (which is broadly unpopular, and even his base is conflicted), will certainly have an impact in polls that are gathered later in the week and the week after.

I know, but I don’t have faith that child concentration camps will push them down as far as they should.

[DMC]

11 minutes ago, Switzeran said:

Bear in mind that the tracking polls lag events. His approval went up because of the Singapore summit and the spin that it was a great moment in history, a big success, etc. The recognition that it wasn't either,  and the ramping up of attention on the family separation policy (which is broadly unpopular, and even his base is conflicted), will certainly have an impact in polls that are gathered later in the week and the week after.

I'm not sure what influences Trump's approval.  Eventually we can look at what effect the summit and separating families in a way that hasn't been done since "re-educating" Native Americans has on Trump.  But I wouldn't expect much.  His approval has been marginally rising because it's hard for even liberals to deny thus far his stewardship has been relative "peace" and prosperity.  And on that "peace" front, he's extended drone strikes in ways that would comparatively piss off even those that supported Obama's efforts.  But anyway, dude has a very low ceiling outside of Rasmussen - regardless of any lag - and the congressional ballot looks fine.

[Ran]

36 minutes ago, DMBouazizi said:

I'm not sure what influences Trump's approval.  Eventually we can look at what effect the summit and separating families in a way that hasn't been done since "re-educating" Native Americans has on Trump.  But I wouldn't expect much.  His approval has been marginally rising because it's hard for even liberals to deny thus far his stewardship has been relative "peace" and prosperity.  And on that "peace" front, he's extended drone strikes in ways that would comparatively piss off even those that supported Obama's efforts.  But anyway, dude has a very low ceiling outside of Rasmussen - regardless of any lag - and the congressional ballot looks fine.

The fact that drone strikes is item 293 down on the list of all the other stuff is amazing to me.

 

But the polling on family separation is very bad for Trump. Only 55% of Republicans agree with it, and that number is going to fall as stories, photos, and footage come out. Liberals and most independents abhor it, and the effort to try and blame the Democrats seem like they're failing other than with the kool-aid sipping  Trumpistas

[DMC]

31 minutes ago, Switzeran said:

But the polling on family separation is very bad for Trump. Only 55% of Republicans agree with it, and that number is going to fall as stories, photos, and footage come out. Liberals and most independents abhor it, and the effort to try and blame the Democrats seem like they're failing other than with the kool-aid sipping  Trumpistas

Sure.  We've just been over this before.  Same thing happened when Dreamers were the main thing in the news.  And what did he do?  Kicked the can down the road legislatively, largely ignored the judicial decision(s), and did everything he could without being checked executively.  That's the mark of somebody that knows what he's doing, or at least has people that know what they're doing, and to evade public outcry as much as possible.

[LongRider]

I don't know what will come of this, if anything, but these folks don't sound like Sessions quoting the Bible convinced them he's in the right. 

 

Quote

More than 600 United Methodist clergy and laity say they are bringing church law charges against U.S. Attorney General Jeff Sessions, a fellow United Methodist, over a zero tolerance U.S. immigration policy — a policy that includes separating children from parents apprehended for crossing into the U.S. illegally.

However, an authority on church history and polity said he’s unaware of a complaint against a lay person ever moving past the district level. 

The group claimed in a June 18 statement that Sessions, a member of a Mobile, Alabama, church, violated Paragraph 2702.3 of the denomination’s Book of Discipline.

Specifically, the group accuses him of child abuse in reference to separating young children from their parents and holding them in mass incarceration facilities; immorality; racial discrimination and “dissemination of doctrines contrary to the established standards of doctrines” of The United Methodist Church.

All are categories listed in 2702.3 as chargeable offenses for a professing member of a local church.

http://www.umc.org/news-and-media/church-charges-brought-against-sessions

[Seli]

On 6/17/2018 at 12:58 AM, Chaircat Meow said:

...

It will be clear from the above that what the progressive aims at is very far removed from the classical liberalism of Locke, or even liberalism as a political creed, usually understood. The progressive is ideological, schematic, quasi-revolutionary. At some level he likely does believe in the basic presumptions of a more classical liberalism; he believes that society can be founded on a rational contract (Rawls), but he also supposes the current ethnic and religious majority are too sunken in their bigotry to behave rationally.

..

Weird bias for the British liberals there. When one looks at the actual liberals in continental Europe that revolutionary breaking the powers-that-be spirit is very very traditional.

Of course that same demographic of people that were agitating for revolution back then now hold it. Which is why current generations of European liberals are to a large extent conservatives.

[mormont]

[mod] Back on topic, please, and the topic is not your own half-considered musings on what you understand of political theory. If you want an audience for that, go start a blog, don't hijack this thread. [/mod]

[A Horse Named Stranger]

7 hours ago, lokisnow said:

Germany went through a whole denazification process, we need to be ready to implement detrumpification because nothing else is adequate anymore in the face of this evil.

 

Although a bit off topic (I hope the Messi of mods gives me some leeway here), that denazification process was not as whole as you think. That would've instantly killed off the adminitration and court system. A lot of Nazi lawyers got appointed or retained their positions as DA or judges. The BND (Germany
s intelligence agency) was basically the embodiement of a failed de-nazification process, as in aiding former top Nazis in hiding, or at the very least try to keep their tracks hidden (Eichmann comes to mind). Hell, Adenauer's right hand man was one of the authors of the Nuremberg race laws, Kiesinger who later became chancellor and he himself was rather high up in the food foodchain of Göbbel's minstry. The real de-nazification happened in the mid-late sixties when the post-war generation came of age and asked some rather uncomfortable questions and demanded some answers.

As for the Trump regime. I hope in the end a lot of the people involved end up in prison, as that's what is probably needed to save the republic. And I hope it won't take 20 years to deal with it.

As a sidenote, if you encounter a Bernie or bust person or a Stein voter from swing state, that broke for Donnie Dipshit, hit them. They deserve it.

[Lordsteve666]

3 hours ago, Morpheus said:

I know, but I don’t have faith that child concentration camps will push them down as far as they should.

Jesus, that's a phrase you thought you'd never hear. When even concentration camps full of kids on US soil won't stop people loving Trump you have to question if reality has come unstitched somewhere....

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Looks like the trade war is on. Trump is threatening an additional tariff of $200b, and says if China responses they’ll hit them with another $200b tariff. The markets, of course, are not happy.

[Zorral]

The days of Jackson have returned: the trail of tears and a wrecking ball to the economy.  But this goes even further as it's a wrecking ball on our national security as well.

Why hasn't this jerk and his ugly mean corrupt band been fired already?

Kidnapping children is terrorism, left, right and center.  Kidnapping children, holding them hostage, to get his ugly stupid wall built so he can have a billboard of one thing he did.  He hasn't accomplished one single thing.  What he's done is destroy.  Not the same.

[Fragile Bird]

30 minutes ago, chiKanery et al. said:

Looks like the trade war is on. Trump is threatening an additional tariff of $200b, and says if China responses they’ll hit them with another $200b tariff. The markets, of course, are not happy.

The Chinese are soon going to run out of US goods to put tariffs on, since the trade deficit is, what, $500 B? I need to check the number. Trump has lots of room to add tariffs.

What the Chinese need to do is add export tariffs, making money for their country instead of making money for the US. An extra 10 bucks on millions of tv units won’t deter Americans from buying cheap TVs and can pay any Chinese worker affected by the tariffs.

Also, note that NONE of the tariffs have actually started yet, except for Trump’s steel and aluminum tariffs. Right now we’re in the ‘phony war’ stage of things, the war of words.

[Martell Spy]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/erik-prince-i-cooperated-with-mueller?ref=scroll

Erik Prince: I ‘Cooperated’ With Mueller

Quote

 

Do you think John Bolton is going to be more open to your proposal than his predecessor H.R. McMaster was?

I think so. If past performance is indicative of future performance, that’s probably the case

 

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

21 minutes ago, Casablanca Birdie said:

The Chinese are soon going to run out of US goods to put tariffs on, since the trade deficit is, what, $500 B? I need to check the number. Trump has lots of room to add tariffs.

What the Chinese need to do is add export tariffs, making money for their country instead of making money for the US. An extra 10 bucks on millions of tv units won’t deter Americans from buying cheap TVs and can pay any Chinese worker affected by the tariffs.

Also, note that NONE of the tariffs have actually started yet, except for Trump’s steel and aluminum tariffs. Right now we’re in the ‘phony war’ stage of things, the war of words.

Thing is, Trump isn’t want to back down and the tariffs are really popular with his base, as well as the people advising him (keep in mind some of the people who opposed tariffs have now left his Administration). They may not be as big as Trump is claiming, but have no doubt, he will hit China with tariffs.

Also, while they may not have as many targets as Trump, they have one that can do the most damage: soy beans. A lot of states that went for Trump are huge soy bean producers, and hitting them with tariffs could do a lot of damage to Trump electorally.