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US Politics: Sit Up Straight and Show Some Respect


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Apparently we're leaving The UN Human Rights Council because Trump and Co don't like how they treat Israel.

https://www.bbc.com/news/44537372

I don't really think this is a big deal in a vacuum, the UNHRC was flawed from the outset due to it having folks who regularly ignore human rights as elected members, but this is just another rejection of multinational cooperation. They are just using the Israel excuse to cover for the fact that they are trying to undermine the international order. The anti-globalist factions in the Trump White House probably has a lot of power, since they can frame anti-globalism as being pro Trump, since it encourages unilateral decisions made by the leaders of individual countries, the thought of which gives Trump a boner previously only achievable with a little blue pill..

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1 hour ago, GrimTuesday said:

Apparently we're leaving The UN Human Rights Council because Trump and Co don't like how they treat Israel.

https://www.bbc.com/news/44537372

I don't really think this is a big deal in a vacuum, the UNHRC was flawed from the outset due to it having folks who regularly ignore human rights as elected members, but this is just another rejection of multinational cooperation. They are just using the Israel excuse to cover for the fact that they are trying to undermine the international order. The anti-globalist factions in the Trump White House probably has a lot of power, since they can frame anti-globalism as being pro Trump, since it encourages unilateral decisions made by the leaders of individual countries, the thought of which gives Trump a boner previously only achievable with a little blue pill..

I was just coming in to post the same.

Maybe if would free the council multiple to investigate the US ICE concentration/death camps

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3 hours ago, كالدب said:

Heard on NPR that Germany considers this to be a massive human rights violation and thinks that they personally would never allow such a thing. That we are is shocking to their core. 

I’m guessing this is a common feeling among our Western allies. It’s one thing to hear rumors about it, but it’s another to have pictures and audio clips. The president of the American Academy of Pediatrics, Dr. Colleen Kraft, has come out and said this is straight up child abuse.

2 hours ago, DMBouazizi said:

Trump isn't wanna back down but Trump also isn't wanna start a global recession, so his administration is want to make sure any "trade war" is primarily hype.

Honestly you're giving him too much credit. He might do it by accident, on a lark or because he thinks he can hurt other countries more than they can hurt us.

2 hours ago, DMBouazizi said:

Man didn't realize how much this was burying the lede.  Laura Ingraham sucks, we've all known that for decades now, but Sessions' response:

Gotcha, so the difference is in how Nazis treated Jews that weren't Germans.  Wonder how that worked out.

Yeah, totally didn't see that bit. You should know you're on shaky grounds when you're arguing that you're not as bad as the Nazis. 

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1 hour ago, GrimTuesday said:

Apparently we're leaving The UN Human Rights Council because Trump and Co don't like how they treat Israel.

https://www.bbc.com/news/44537372

I don't really think this is a big deal in a vacuum, the UNHRC was flawed from the outset due to it having folks who regularly ignore human rights as elected members, but this is just another rejection of multinational cooperation. They are just using the Israel excuse to cover for the fact that they are trying to undermine the international order. The anti-globalist factions in the Trump White House probably has a lot of power, since they can frame anti-globalism as being pro Trump, since it encourages unilateral decisions made by the leaders of individual countries, the thought of which gives Trump a boner previously only achievable with a little blue pill..

I can't say how big a deal it is, but it sure is symbolic of the times. 

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5 minutes ago, chiKanery et al. said:

Honestly you're giving him too much credit. He might do it by accident, on a lark or because he thinks he can hurt other countries more than they can hurt us.

I don't think I'm giving him any credit at all.  I'm saying he's talking out of his ass.  And even if he wants to do it, his administration is smart enough to make sure it doesn't happen - and he's incompetent enough to fail at making them do otherwise.

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3 minutes ago, chiKanery et al. said:

I can't say how big a deal it is, but it sure is symbolic of the times. 

I think that if this was any other president, and the reasoning for leaving was that the body is flawed, and includes members who should, in a just world, be dragged in front of the Hague, it wouldn't be a major deal. In the darkest timeline we inhabit, this is a big deal because of the long term goals of many in his administration who hold sway over him. These are the type of people who use globalist as an insult, who think that America is the be all end all of the global order. Trump likely thinks like this as well, but I doubt he has the political savvy to actually achieve this. That is the role of folks like Stephen Miller and John Bolton.

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3 minutes ago, DMBouazizi said:

I don't think I'm giving him any credit at all.  I'm saying he's talking out of his ass.  And even if he wants to do it, his administration is smart enough to make sure it doesn't happen - and he's incompetent enough to fail at making them do otherwise.

The part of your text I've selected has me intrigued. I can remember back when Bush was president, and the was always an assumption that people like Carl Rove (I think that was his name) pulled strings and had huge influence.

With the high turnover in Trump's cabinet, the consistency of his policies in some areas seem to indicate he also has some behind the scenes managers ensuring their particular worldview is happening. Common assumptions are that it's Putin and the Koch brothers, but day-to-day, since Trump can't be bothered doing anything, who is actually making all of these decisions?

My guess is that it's Pence. The comings and goings seem to be consistent with his worldview. And for most matters, the word and signature of the VP must be as good as the President's, you'd think. Pence is shrewd enough to know that Trump is drawing attention but not wielding much authority as most don't take him seriously. On the other hand, I can't imagine anyone second-guessing Pence.

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By that I mean, surely orders coming from his office are actually followed? Like, he does wield executive power, doesn't he? De facto, if not de jure, given all Trump does is watch TV and eat cheeseburgers.

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10 minutes ago, Yukle said:

The part of your text I've selected has me intrigued. I can remember back when Bush was president, and the was always an assumption that people like Carl Rove (I think that was his name) pulled strings and had huge influence.

With the high turnover in Trump's cabinet, the consistency of his policies in some areas seem to indicate he also has some behind the scenes managers ensuring their particular worldview is happening. Common assumptions are that it's Putin and the Koch brothers, but day-to-day, since Trump can't be bothered doing anything, who is actually making all of these decisions?

My guess is that it's Pence. The comings and goings seem to be consistent with his worldview. And for most matters, the word and signature of the VP must be as good as the President's, you'd think. Pence is shrewd enough to know that Trump is drawing attention but not wielding much authority as most don't take him seriously. On the other hand, I can't imagine anyone second-guessing Pence.

Well, Pence and the Koch brothers work closely together, and yes they seem to hold a lot of sway in this administration. 

Putin's kind of the wild card, but there are other foreign leaders obviously influencing the U.S. government. Foreign leaders, spies, and con men all over the world see this moment in time as the big opportunity to get the U.S. to do what they want. Eric Prince for example keeps pushing his mercenary army idea on the Trump admin. He knows this is his one chance before an adult is put in charge again.

And of course the nativist cabal has a lot of power at times. Sessions and Miller. But also Bannon likely still talks with the President on a regular basis. And if he doesn't, he certainly talks with Miller.

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8 minutes ago, Yukle said:

I can remember back when Bush was president, and the was always an assumption that people like Carl Rove (I think that was his name) pulled strings and had huge influence.

Karl Rove was a political advisor rather than a policy advisor.  Granted the two often merge, but in this context it's both bad policy and bad politics, so the point is moot.

10 minutes ago, Yukle said:

With the high turnover in Trump's cabinet, the consistency of his policies in some areas seem to indicate he also has some behind the scenes managers ensuring their particular worldview is happening. Common assumptions are that it's Putin and the Koch brothers, but day-to-day, since Trump can't be bothered doing anything, who is actually making all of these decisions?

It's a fair question to wonder if Trump relies on outside advice much more so than any other president - and I suspect that's correct.  But I honestly don't know the answer to that, and it'd just be plain speculation.  What I do know is those in normal positions of power - namely John Kelly, Joe Hagin, Steve Mnuchin, and even Wilbur Ross and Larry Kudlow - all think full on trade war with China is a disastrous idea.

14 minutes ago, Yukle said:

My guess is that it's Pence. The comings and goings seem to be consistent with his worldview. And for most matters, the word and signature of the VP must be as good as the President's, you'd think.

Nah, the VP don't matter.  VP's influence varies by their relationship with POTUS, and the impression I get from this one is Pence kisses Trump's ass in public and rolls his eyes in private.  His super-religiosity doesn't jive, and there were multiple reports Pence worked against Trump's election up to and until the latter was the nominee.  Trump don't forget that.  Does he have influence as a political player in the party?  Sure, but not in the way you're describing.

3 minutes ago, Yukle said:

By that I mean, surely orders coming from his office are actually followed? Like, he does wield executive power, doesn't he? De facto, if not de jure, given all Trump does is watch TV and eat cheeseburgers.

Again, no, the VP doesn't wield any executive power.  His job description literally entails having a pulse.  There's the famous quote from John Nance Garner about VP not being worth a warm bucket of "spit" (he actually said shit), but my favorite is Daniel Webster's "I do not propose to be buried until I really dead and in my coffin."

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https://www.thecut.com/2018/06/new-york-to-sue-trump-admin-over-family-separation-policy.html

New York Is Suing Trump Over ‘Heartless’ Family-Separation Policy

Quote

According to Cuomo’s statement, at least 70 of those 2,000 separated children reside in detention centers in New York state — a number that will only grow as border agents separate more families. To prevent this practice from continuing, Cuomo is reportedly directing the Office of Temporary and Disability Assistance, the Department of Health, and the Office of Children and Family Services to commence legal action against the administration for violating the human rights of asylum-seekers.

 

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1 minute ago, DMBouazizi said:

It's a fair question to wonder if Trump relies on outside advice much more so than any other president - and I suspect that's correct.  But I honestly don't know the answer to that, and it'd just be plain speculation.  What I do know is those in normal positions of power - namely John Kelly, Joe Hagin, Steve Mnuchin, and even Wilbur Ross and Larry Kudlow - all think full on trade war with China is a disastrous idea.

...

Again, no, the VP doesn't wield any executive power.  His job description literally entails having a pulse.

On that first point, there have been many reports that Trump is easily distracted and forgets most of what he says. That's when the dementia rumours began in earnest.

To the second part, while that's actually reassuring. Pence is... "interesting" is a polite term. "Ethically bereft" is less so but just as accurate.

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This week's high temperature in Tornillo, TX—location of the tent city concentration camp—is going to be 107°.

The maximum efficacy of an A/C unit is -20°, and that's just for buildings that actually have properly insulated walls. No chance it's better than that when the walls are uninsulated canvas and vinyl.

A/Cs, and the ΔT of 20° from ambient is the usual norm

While it is possible to get greater cooling, it is usually because of a a high powered climate control system, which is something I highly doubt they would shell out the money for, especially for kids they consider criminals and lesser than them.

There is no way non-specialty A/C unit would be able to maintain a decent cooling temperature that would provide relief from the heat when there is a only physical barrier that is nothing but a thin wall of canvas/vinyl/polyester/etc.

Add kids being compacted into such a small space? That means body heat generating more heat to the enclosed space that is already not being significantly cooled in such high temps.

This is info from similair tents used in Iraq. http://dura-foam.com/resources/foam-roofing/army-tents/

The Iraq desert temperatures reach 130 degrees F, and US Army tents don’t provide much relief, even with an A/C unit since they are poorly insulated tents. The temps inside were still over 100 degrees F inside.

 

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2 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

Oh Pence is human garbage, but his only job is to break ties in the Senate.

He's also the umbilical cord keeping Baby Donald tethered to the rotten womb of the McJesusites.

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27 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

He's also the umbilical cord keeping Baby Donald tethered to the rotten womb of the McJesusites.

Meh Trump doesn't need him for that.  Their cognitive dissonance is pretty much an off the shelf feature.

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5 minutes ago, DMBouazizi said:

Meh Trump doesn't need him for that.  Their cognitive dissonance is pretty much an off the shelf feature.

Are you saying that a collective that is unified through sheer bigotry hinged on fairy tales and shared delusions will believe whatever they want to believe about their orange Mephistophelian avatar?

Color me shocked. And not orange.

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6 minutes ago, Jace, The Sugarcube said:

Are you saying that a collective that is unified through sheer bigotry hinged on fairy tales and shared delusions will believe whatever they want to believe about their orange Mephistophelian avatar?

Well done.

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1 hour ago, DMBouazizi said:

I don't think I'm giving him any credit at all.  I'm saying he's talking out of his ass.  And even if he wants to do it, his administration is smart enough to make sure it doesn't happen - and he's incompetent enough to fail at making them do otherwise.

I'm not so sure about that. Back in 2007/8 when the GFC was starting to hit there were more than a few voices on the right saying the US govt should let the big institutions fail and have zero bailout. While most people were super pissed off at the big institutions and would have liked then to fail, but knew that bailouts were needed to prevent a much bigger disaster. One could argue that a hard reset is better in the long term, but the cost of that in the suffering of the ordinary folk would be hard to take.

I can imagine a few people in the current administration thinking that a global recession would be a good thing if it improves the USA's relative global power compared to its rivals (China and Europe mostly I suppose). Some people would let the world burn so they can be king of the ashes, and all that. You are basically trusting that with revolving door in the Trump administration whatever sensible heads remain  continue to be the most influential.

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